$30 from a gas tax holiday buys one person food for a month, but do "creative class" [cough] Obama Fan Bois care? Guess...

the fact that the blogosphere is not progressive (anymore).

Liberalism puts social class issues front and center and focuses on redistribution towards the bottom of the social ladder (see Scandinavian countries), which is why any discussion of economic redistribution would get you accused of fomenting class warfare on the SCLM.

The Big Blogger Boyz could not care less about economic redistribution because they have done well as a consequence of the Clinton years so they were secure enough to weather the BS from the Bush years.

Let's face it, the "creative class" is part of what Leslie Sklair calls the transnational capitalist class, at least, its ideological component. They focus more on process and identity politics and are not the least interested in bread and butter issues.

Another sad realization of this primary.

They have none.

BTW - You can pad your nutritional intake by sneaking into motel "continental breakfasts" and some "Happy Hour" buffets.

Just a tip for those in need.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

Not in a Caramel Macchiato...and these days, everyone must sacrifice so no more vente's for a while and you can see the dollar stretches just a bit farther and you can probably get about 9 of them for your $30.

Is that it claims the Clinton and McCain plans are the same and would deny the highway trust fund of money, when - of course - Clinton's wouldn't.

Frankly, I think HRC is being gimmicky. The oil companies will take more and this will be less money for roads and transit.

The better solution would be more subsidies for things like van pools, so people who live in areas with poor transit would have a non auto option for their work commute.

Is Obama misrepresenting what I said?
I don’t have a link to the ad itself, but apparently there’s an Obama ad citing something I said about McCain’s gas tax holiday as a way to attack Hillary Clinton.

I did not say that the Clinton proposal would increase oil industry profits. If the ad implies that I did, it should be retracted.

The Clinton proposal is financed by an excess profits tax. At worst, it sends money in a circle. In practice, it would probably reduce oil industry profits at least slightly, since the rise in the pre-tax price of gasoline probably wouldn’t wipe out all of the tax cut.

I was very clear when I wrote about the Clinton proposal that while I didn’t think it was good policy, it was not the same as McCain’s, and relatively harmless. If the Obama people are suggesting otherwise, they’re being deliberately dishonest.

I think Krugman is right, btw. (via Talk Left, see http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05...)

I'm all for better mass transportation and car pools. However, that alone isn't going to help everybody, particularly in rural areas. It also won't do anything to lower the energy costs of delivering food and other necessities which ends up raising the costs of those items. Now, I don't think the gas tax holiday is going to solve the problem. I tend to see it as 1) possibly giving a little back and some people desperately need even that little and 2) being an important symbol that the government recognizes people are hurting from gas prices and is trying to do something that helps them that's paid for by oil companies who have benefitted mightily under the current administration at our expense.

not something that won't kick in for months or years.

I say we take all the oil company execs, harvest and sell their usable organs, render their fat for candles, and use the rest for Hot Pocket filling.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

supply of my migraine meds (which medicaid does NOT cover for some stupid reason.) And when you're leaving on SSI-D, trust me, that $30 makes a HUGE difference. (Though I doubt it will be $30 for me, I fill up every month/month and a half)

happily immune to all religious indoctrination

Bash Clinton??

http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/

Some contradictions observed....

I mention in passing the Gallup tracking poll, but today's AP-Ipsos poll is SO much nicer!!!

how attached so many progressives seem to be to what is no doubt a regressive tax. Imagine if Obama hadn't turned this into a intra party argument to further his own political standing. Right now we could be having a debate with McCain on this issue where he would either be forced to agree that Hillary's plan is actually better than is, or disagree with her plan and be exposed as someone who was not really looking out for working people, but rather trying to fool them into thinking he was while his plan was really just diverting money from paying to improve our infrastructure to lining the pockets of the oil companies. Imagine if right now we could be making the story- John McCain, for cutting your taxes only when it benefits the Oil Companies. Instead we get a bunch of ads lying about what Clinton's plan actually is, and downplaying helping people out because it happens to be good politics.

at the bottom of every page.

I've had some comment posting weirdness myself but I thought it only seems to happen when I include some link and perhaps I forget to close a tag but it's happened to me twice now...once only part of the comment got through...tonight, the whole comment disappeared...weird

Creative Commons license

Part of the reason that the Mighty Corrente Building is so mighty

Man, Obama is getting really cocky. What a d-bag.

Obama voted to let the oil companies make huge sums at the expense of the consumer and now doesn't want to tax their "excessive profits". The question should be: why doesn't Obama want oil companies' "excessive profits" to pay for my friend's Ramen? Emphasize "excessive profits".

This is the beauty of Obama's "megachurch philosophy". That is, do easy things (use corporate lobbyists as bundlers instead of lobby firms) and decry those who are up front about their ties. But heaven forbid you ask Obama's supporters to help the little guy if it causes them sacrifice, real or perceived. More on the megachurch philosohy later if you all can't figure it out.

ever since he demonstrated his bowling prowess (removing the White House bowling alley and replacing it with a basketball court).

Probably can finagle the money from the highway funds to do the conversion too.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/200...

It is amazing to see all of these progressives fall all over themselves to help maintain a regressive tax.

1 hint...it wasn't Hillary.

Obama is in Exelon's pocket - hint do a search on page for 'Ayers'

William Ayers father

Here - http://susiemadrak.com/2008/05/05/21/47/...

And how nice that there is an Ayers-Exelon connection. I'm sure the GOP won't notice that at all.

Obama is like a guy that waltzes in and out of every building in Manhattan without ever getting checked for an ID. He votes for Cheney's energy bill and to my knowledge that fact has alluded everyone that is cracking back on Hillary now. Why she isn't clubbing him over the head with this is beyond comprehension.

we're getting slammed with it's an insultingly small measure. Everyone knows a much more comprehensive initiative is needed, but you say we should be happy with a few crumbs in an election year?

Yeah, the thought of that $30 is still gonna be keeping me warm come November when I have to fill that heating oil tank....

Thomas Ayers (William Ayers father), was (I don't think he's still alive) chairman of Commonwealth Edison

Lots of info can be found here

Now, if you want an interesting read on the mindset and activities of the 70's and SDS, revolutionaries and a few details of Ayers, this seems to be a pretty accurate representation of the times. Since I am a product of those times, it seemed to be a really fair recollection but I wasn't quite that radical myself.

when the price of heating oil in the east is going to be devastating on a lot of people.

I can see Obama pitching liquified coal already

Obama : We're going to build a basketball court in the White House.
OxyCon: Man, Obama is getting really cocky. What a d-bag.

He's pandering to North Carolina & Indiana's rabid college basketball fans!

Obama, Marie Antionette in drag, today treated some folks to cake.

He either has:

a. a tin ear;
b. self-destructive behavior of a personality disorder;
c. just given bread winners in the family the finger.

as Obama and his buds. Read on rezkowatch a page called -one degree of separation- awhile back, and the fodder for the GOP is stunning.

Your Ramen noodles--seems my daughter lived on them while at UF. Four for a dollar.

I topped her with catsup packets and hot water-makes tomato soup. Tastes like crap, but hey if you're hungry.

"Why she isn’t clubbing him over the head with this is beyond comprehension."

Because Mr. Hope must in no way be criticized. Racist you know.

Besides, only low information voters are interested in those icky details.

That they think this measure is the only thing Hillary has proposed? Or are they just deliberately lying? Its one or the other. There should be no ignorance from the "leisure class"

She proposed this because McCain did. Rather than give him and the GOP the high road, she agreed with it, but required the oil companies to pay for it. They would have proposed it in the House and Pelosi would have gotten outplayed and the Dems would have lost face. Rather than make the oil companies part with their "excessive profits", the "leisure class" would rather stick it to Hillary. There should be no question that "leisure class" priorities do not include economic justice. Apparently, they lack the empathy gene.

Everybody Loves Ramen.

You mean the "Gentry"? The self-styled lords of the "progressive" intertubes manor?

It wasn't so long ago that I don't still remember living in a car under a bridge. Getting full on a piece of toast. Living on a piece of toast and a ramen. Borrowing five dollars from a friend because I NEEDED IT to eat. Feeling lucky to make $30 in a day because that means you can kick the ball just a little further down the road.

I'm lucky, my circumstances are 180 degrees different now, but it still pisses me off that somebody who wouldn't think twice to drop $20/day on fancy coffee feels qualified to say the "dumb Normals" won't really miss that $30. Thirty dollars is also a one month mass transit pass (some places).

I have another question (it's a little long)
Why Won't Those Stupid Gentrys Shut the Fuck Up Regarding Shit About Which They Obviously Know Jack Squat?

-----------------------------

Good night and good riddance!

Rather than bash Hillary's proposal, why didn't Obama say "Ok, we will raise the ante, we will incorporate your gas tax holiday and windfall profit tax on oil profits but will increase it so that we can subsidize mass transit vouchers". He will never do this because it is even MORE progressive, it helps people who [GASP!], DON'T EVEN BUY GAS DIRECTLY!!!! Plus it helps "them city folk", which is a voting bloc the "Gentry" must feel are already sufficiently duped.

But all this means breaking the Obama campaign tradition and respond with a POLICY proposal rather than a PROCESS argument.

-----------------------------

Good night and good riddance!

The problem seems to be that the "creative class" has never been poor and just don't seem to grasp that a little relief can mean alot to some folks.

When I was going to college in the early 70's, I for the most part paid my own way. My parents had additional kids at home to raise. College was a luxury and I was too embarrased to ask them for $$. There were months when I lived on chicken pot pies (6/$1 on sale) and spaghetti. A real treat was buying an off-brand fast food hamburger for 23 cents. During that same time, my boyfriend lived on ketchup sandwiches.

It did take me 11 years to get my degree, because I eventually determined it would be easier to get through college with a little help from the G.I. bill.

All in all, if you have never had to scrape to get by, you cannot understand what a "few bucks" can mean to someone who is living on the margins.

but there's something in the air and it isn't Febreze. Everyone's giddy, flirty and...well... I thought this primary season was about angst and denial. I'm confused by this new found headiness.

Maybe I'll just sit down on this pillow and take a puff.

Being needy is so lacking, so basically saying that you are not o.k..
that might be humiliating and being you requires guts. We are back to cajones now.

The OFB reminds me of the kids I use to teach. If you didn't wear the favored brand of clothes, you didn't fit into the cool crowd. It just reeked of insecurity. Nothing really changes and that makes me sad.

I suspect bullshit. Go ahead and eliminate the gas tax, I'll be generous and ignore the realities of economics and assume that'll save you $0.18/gallon (although given the laws of supply and demand, it would be more like $0.07/gallon). In order to save $30/month, you'd have to use 167 gallons of gas/month. Now, when you were eating your ramen/pork and beans/spaghetti, how much driving were you doing? Did you even have a car? I'll guess that you weren't spending $700/month on gas.

My point is, a gas tax holiday wouldn't have helped you at all, and it won't help the poor people you describe. The people who will enjoy this the most (aside from Exxon/Mobil for the extra ~$.11/gallon profit) are the upper middle class, who'll have extra money saved in fueling their SUVs. They'll have an extra couple lattes a month, and the poor will be exactly as poor as they were before.

If Clinton wanted to help the poor, she'd propose policy changes that would actually help the poor. This is just a stupid pander to middle class voters, and your refusal to acknowledge it as such demonstrates a terrible lack of judgment.

If Clinton wanted to help the poor, she’d propose policy changes that would actually help the poor.

Too bad she already does. I don't understand why the OFB are attacking this single proposal, as if it is the entire sum of her policies. She has policies that will help working class voters, and they are better than Obama's. That's why the working class is voting for her. She has better environmental policies, yet the OFB act like this is her only plan for greenhouse gases, is to increase the driving(which this won't, $3.40/gal vs $3.60/gal is not going to convince many people, that times are good and the living is easy).

But, yes, for a lot of families, like mine, who only have one car, means we a do a lot more driving than if we both had cars, because we spend a lot of time carting the other to work, so we can accomplish other things during the shift. So that savings(which I think will out more like 10-12%,) will be a lot of extra money for my family.

My point is, a gas tax holiday wouldn’t have helped you at all, and it won’t help the poor people you describe.

Oh please, do continue, I love being told by my "betters" what will really help me and what won't. I'm sure that will get your candidate lots of votes. Republican voters might like to be talked down to, but Democrats don't, and you might want to remind your candidate of that.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

The reason the OFB are attacking the gas tax plan is because it is a pointless, pathetic pander. She's made it a policy centerpiece, attacking Obama in speeches and ads for being against it, but it's a terrible piece of policy. Don't you think every Clinton supporter would be attacking Obama for this plan if he'd proposed it before Clinton? Can you imagine how virulent Krugman would be?

How many gallons of gas do you use a month? How much are you going to save? $5? $10? Are you spending $700/month on gas? If so, what kind of land yacht are you driving? My biggest objection to the gas tax holiday is that it won't help people (the oil companies will pocket the difference). But the biggest shock to me is that the CFB would ever attempt to defend such a pathetic piece of policy.

last word should be in quotes, "policy"

How many gallons of gas do you use a month? How much are you going to save? $5? $10? Are you spending $700/month on gas?

People where I live (rural South) have to drive 60 miles one way to get to a job. With a car that gets about 20 miles to the gallon, that's two fill-ups a week for a 15-gallon tank: about $120 a week in gas, or an average of about $500 a month.

I don't doubt that there are people who spend a fortune on gas, but if you're driving 60 miles each way, you might want to consider some other options. That's an insane amount of time and money (2+ hrs and $24/day) spent on a commute. And with all that, the 120 mile/day commuter can save somewhere between $7 and $20 per month during the gas tax holiday, or 30-80% of a single day commute in any given month. It's piddling.

Lambert, my apologies (again) for the prior double post, but did you have to delete both? If the gas tax holiday is not a policy centerpiece, why spend so much ad money and speech lines touting it (and Obama "wants you to keep paying gas taxes"). I was under the impression that money was tight?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF48jPeZDsQ

My fiance and I have a 30 ml commute, each, and we work different shifts. Some days it's one way for both of us, but sometimes our schedules overlap, so one of us has to take the other to work, go home, go to work ourselves, spend our lunch hour retrieving the other, sometime taking them home or returning straight to work, while the other runs errands, then returning to work, and finally returning home.

That is the reality for a lot of poor families, who would use less gas if they owned two cars.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

I don’t doubt that there are people who spend a fortune on gas, but if you’re driving 60 miles each way, you might want to consider some other options.

This is only hilarious because pretty much exactly this response was anticipated. It really is like poor people don't exist for them, isn't it?

you might want to consider some other options

What are some of those "other options"?

Why is it a centerpiece? Because Obama was dumb enough to attack it.

And your privilege is showing.

but if you’re driving 60 miles each way, you might want to consider some other options.

Yeah, because the job market is flush with jobs. And jobs looking for the pay you need are that far away. And have you never considered contractors, you know plumbers, electricians, painters, construction.

You are obviously dense, because you want to consider nothing except that Obama good, Clinton bad.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

It really is like poor people don’t exist for them, isn’t it?

Except to offer advice and concern.

My advice to Crusty Dem: Just listen, don't think you have to offer what seems like a completely logical and rational answer to fix someone else's life. You sound like a concern troll. Shhhh....

32
And Master Kung* said that a man ought

to spend most of his time studying poetry and music and divine manner

and being very quiet inside himself. And Laotze advised him

"Do it in yourself, Kung, and don't try and teach other men.

If you try to be of some use in the world

you burden the people with your own insufficiency."

And Jesus pointed out that the usefulness of Solomon's public office

was inferior to the uselessness of flowers.

-- From Stay With God by Francis Brabazon

[*Master Kung: Confucius, 6th century B.C.]

Your lack of common sense is showing. If the jobs looking for the pay you need are that far away, you might want to consider moving closer to those jobs. That's not privilege, that's sanity. You have to account for transportation costs in your costs of living and if you're spending >$500/month because you are hell and gone from your job, a move might be a good idea.

I'm a certified OFB member, but when it comes to policy, I use my mind. Clinton's health care plan is better than Obama. period. I'm extremely skeptical of it getting passed as is, but it is, on the whole, a better plan. But she's been completely off on several issues, either because of bad policy, complete impracticality, or pandering (gas tax holiday, threatening to "obliterate" Iran, the latest pro-gun nonsense, "breaking up OPEC", full voting rights for residents of Guam, etc).

Crusty Dem: Your lack of common sense is showing.

I can't decide whether to laugh or cry. He can't stop, it's like an illness. Actually it is an illness.

To CD: Here's some advice. Get help. Better yet, drop some acid, loosen your tie. [Normally I do not condone illegal drug use, BUT...]

Not a bad idea to move closer to where you work. Of course, that might involve selling your house, in a depressed real estate market, when it isn't really close to economic opportunities (which is why you'd like to move), and everyone loves paying rent on one place while making the mortgage on another, and having two mortgages is just the bestest.

If Atlanta or California is any example, the closer in you live, the pricier the housing.

What an asinine comment. Let's see...what else can we do here?
I'm sick - OFB response - Get better!
I'm hungry - OFB response - Get some food!
I'm tired from working two jobs to get by - OFB response - Get some rest!
I have to drive a distance to get to work - OFB response - Move closer in!

They couldn't give a damn less about actually helping people. For a true Unity Candidate, he sure doesn't seem to offer many actual policies to help people does he?
Of course, that's not possible. For example, supporting universal health care may offend his newly found Republican and Independent friends. Can't have that, now can we?

Although to be fair, Herb, I imputed the words “dull normals” to them; it seems to sum up the attitude. It’s from Harry Potter; the dull normals are the people in the real world, as opposed to the kidz who have all one off to magic school.

"Muggles" is the term from Harry Potter. Isn't "dull normals" from Catcher in the Rye or something?

I live in a rural area surrounding a large metropolitan area. It costs more to live closer to my job. I like the school my daughter attends, and she would have to change if we moved.

The loss in pay I would get from switching to a job closer to home, would not make up the gas money I spend to get to it.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

I've seen other comments like:

1. Use public transportation (not available or impractical)

2. Carpool (with who?)

3. Buy a more efficent vehicle (with what money?)

4. Telecommute (in construction?)

The creative class just don't understand how real people live. I know families that are stacked like cordwood in the bedrooms, with 3-4 generations living in 3 or 4 bedroom homes.

There are working people with kids that are basically homeless, living with friends and relatives.

I live in an area (central California) where the housing meltdown left numerous homes vacant because people just walked away from mortgages they can't pay. Meanwhile the rental market is super tight, gas is expensive, and public transportation is a joke.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

most of the country anyway--especially in exurbs and new/fast-growing areas and rural counties or formerly rural ones.

TARC sux. To get to work on time, I would have to catch the bus @ 5:30am, and then there's no one to put my spawn on the bus, and even if there were, trust me she would be outraged to wake up that early.

I also have to run errands at work(for which I am reimbursed 32 cents a mile), so a carpooling is out. My car gets 27 mpg, they really don't get more efficient.

And telecommuting is not an option, since I work in accounting, and I am not allowed to have private company information in my house.

They really don't understand anything about the working class, and it is showing in Obama's plummeting support.

But I'm racist, so that's OK.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

Just making some suggestions, folks. My point is that there are different ways to solve problems. Apparently the geniuses here think the answer to everyone's problems is a 3 month break on the $0.18/gallon federal gas tax. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Please explain to me how the gas tax holiday (or other minor policy changes) will fix:

1) The shrinking middle class
2) Peak oil issues
3) The housing crisis

But you're all so right, I'll just go back to HillaryClinton.com for more answers. I'm sure it's just a lack of understanding in my dense, elitist head. Here I've been listening to those stupid economists.

To address those problems. You are arguing straw. The gas tax holiday is a temporary relief, while other policies begin to take effect.

And we're supposed to be the stupid ones?

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

n/t

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

My point is that there are different ways to solve problems.

And everyone else's point is that your "solutions" are fucking stupid. You might as well suggest that people build a time machine, go back before birth, and arrange to be born into a rich family. It's just about as workable.

Corrente Folk want to make this about "elitist" Dems not understanding how actual poor people live when it's really about a lame-ass temporary half measure being pitched ONLY because it scores points with the same people who will be most screwed if they accept this token effort as the best they can expect from our "leaders".

If $30 sounds like a good deal to you then take it-

I'd rather give plasma.

The the windfall profits tax. That is the only reason I think it's a good idea.

Us "rubes" will go for the holiday, and it will be paid for the the extra tax. Which opens to door to other corporate taxes. And other better policies. You all just can't see the benefit to waking one small step backward, to make two leaps forward.

It's no wonder we lose elections.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

The windfall profits tax is just a sure veto. It is the remedy I'm thinking of- with the rebate feature Byron Dorgan is proposing...a just solution to the kind of exploitation we've been suffering.

Real money redistributed to the people most affected- can you visualize how sweet that would be?

cd: 1) The shrinking middle class 2) Peak oil issues 3) The housing crisis

Moving in closer won't solve those problems, either.

Here's the bigger picture for me. Maybe $30 won't go very far or last very long [especially for the CC], but think of the billions in shared pain it will cost the oil companies [HillaryClinton.com]. Ouchies!

The "creative" class often is also the investor class. I bet the value of their stocks, bonds, dividends, and capital-gains tax breaks will fall by far more than $30 per capita. That's in their self-interest, capiche?

I'd be willing to bet a tank of gas that Aeryl & I could probably figure out how to make what they'd lose go a long long way, while they'd be left at the gate whining about poor me the market is down and having to stay closer to home this vacation season.

Aside from not appreciating what the slave-wages class don't have, I don't believe they even appreciate what they do have [Brazile: ...I'm wealthy].

You know, $10 is not chump change for me. But I am going to go give it to Hillary, because she will appreciate that fact.

Now that Clinton looks done, the media will embrace McCain's proposal. This issue was always a general election winner. Republicans will move forward with their proposal and Blue Dog democrats will join them. So we'll get the tax cut, just not the windfall profits tax. And the GOP will get credit for it.