you can go to Network Solutions where you register domain names and see who the noble Clinton supporters are who own this inspiring site:
clintons ffor mccain
Registrant:
Republican National Committee
310 First Street SE
Washington, DC 20003
US
Domain Name: CLINTONSFORMCCAIN.COMAdministrative Contact , Technical Contact :
Republican National Committee
dns [at] rnchq [dot] org
310 First Street SE
Washington, DC 20003
US
Phone: 202-863-8500
Fax: 202-863-8851
Record created on 15-May-2008
Always nice to know who your fellow travellers are. I'm sure these registrants have been out and about with posts of the "I'm a lifelong Democrat so it's with great sorrow that I have to say I can't support..." category.
Actually the only part that surprises me about this is that they didn't have "Clintons For McCain" registered back in March or even February after Edwards dropped out. And "Obamas for McCain" registered too just as a just-in-case, cover-all-the-fifth-columnist-bases effort as well.
(h/t to Dirk Gently, melancholic over at the Newly Moved Into House of Gray Turtlenecks joint.)
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Comments
Nobody could have anticipated...
...that they would change gwbush43.com into rnchq.org...
But I still believe
And I will rise up with fists!!
But I still believe
And I will rise up with fists!!
good catch
n/t
"That" group?
Just saying that I'm not completely sure which group "that" group might be, on the evidence.
As is well known, anybody can register a domain, and political parties Hoover them up.
NOTE The "Clintons for McCain," plural, looks like the kind of silly autogenerated domain name GoDaddy would produce. I'm surprised Eschaton wouldn't pick up on that. Or not.
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Gallup- 15% not favoring either --
"... the structure of the race looks slightly different than at any other time this year as a result of the relatively high percentage of voters -- 15% -- not favoring either major-party candidate. This includes 7% of voters who say they are undecided and 8% who say they will not vote for either candidate (including 1% who volunteer they will vote for another specific candidate).
..." -- http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/15/...
Don't use one RNC crypto-site as proof of anything quite yet--and McCain is openly courting women, for instance. Bush actually improved among women in 04, compared to 00 -- http://www.now.org/issues/election/elect...
Good catch... (comment expanded)
... if it's not a ratfuck. Not saying it is, not saying it isn't.
Anyone can type anything when registering a domain name. We simply don't know how legit this is. And if it is a GOP operation, how much activity of this sort these characters have been up to? We don't know, as they say, "at this particular point in time."
Are they trying to create a welcoming home to disgruntled HRC supporters, or have they been doing sock-puppeting-type tricks? You're "sure" they have. Why?
I personally know Hillary supporters who are precisely in the “I’m a lifelong Democrat so it’s with great sorrow that I have to say I can’t support…” camp.
Even if this is bona fide evidence of a false-flag conspiracy, and I'd love to hear all about it if it is, there are in fact many good Democrats who feel hard-pressed to vote for Obama. That's a fact. So let's not jump to the conclusion that Obama skeptics we meet are not, in fact, loyal Democrats.
On the internet, no one knows whether you're a dog, puma, donkey, elephant, etc.
fyi on soc sec
obama mccain and social secuirty
Ha, and I just finished reading "True Names"
As there's a version on the web.
If this is a gooper ratfuck, they were remarkably incompetent about it. Anyone can type 'whois' and all.
Also, I've never heard of this website before, has anyone else?
As the screen-dump shows
... the reason you've never heard of the URL is that nobody's used it to set up a site.
Political operations Hoover up URLs by the bagful, either for their own purposes, or to deny the use of the URL to their enemies.
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
The registrant, rnchq.org, is absolutely the Republican Party HQ
We know this from way back in the Dark Ages of gwb43.com and that long, long list of other .com and .org names they had registered for the 04 and 06 elections. I used to have the list, and we published portions of it here on numerous occasions.
That said, this is the (very lonely) one aspect of the RNC/GWB net operation that is perfectly legal and legitimate. (The part we were investigating at the time was the use of these addresses intermingled with .gov addresses to avoid requirements that all government correspondence be submitted to the Naitonal Archivist, a matter which remains to be resolved, grrr.)
A political party is allowed--and if it were on "our side" I hope we are doing it too--to promote itself and its candidates in any way it sees fit that does not cross the lines of legality.
Hell, this is damn near saintlike by Republican standards; they signed their own corporate name to the registration and left it out in public access for all to see. Maybe Rove is indeed starting to be distracted by the oncoming investigative steamroller....we can dream at any rate.
As for anyone who may fit Vastleft's description as
all I can say is that they are perfectly free to do as they see fit, but that they are ignoring Sen. Clinton's own words. She has suspended her campaign and promised her complete and wholehearted support of the Democratic nominee and asked those who supported her to do likewise.
Since there's nothing at the other end of the URL...
there's no "catch." I guess I'm still hung up on this silly "evidence" thing, and I have to admit I'm hard pressed to see what "that group" might mean, or what the point of the post is.
Of course, if the subtext of the post is "that group" is the traitors among us who need to be purged, well and good, but why not just say that?
Personally, I think it would be wiser to make a case based on an appeal to reason, rather than Hillary's suppposed authority, but YMMV...
UPDATE Who cares what the registrar is? If the Republican Party registered www.zuchinnisforlambert.com what conclusion could you draw from it? About as much as you could draw from www.popebenedictforzuchinnis.com if I registered it: That is, precisely nothing in the absence of a site.
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
I'm not troubled by...
... the appeal to authority. Seems a fair argument to me that if we trust Hillary at 3AM, we might value her judgment about whom to vote for. She's not the boss of us, but her recommendation ought to carry some weight.
But I am troubled by the implication that online Hillary supporters are traitors, or really, that they aren't and weren't Democrats at all.
How is being "sure" about this any better than -- to cite something where all of us, as best I can tell, have agreed on a higher standard -- flogging a Michelle Obama video story that's based on hearsay?
Or floggging the War Room video...
... with no transcript and no provenance?
And in any case, as I keep saying, political parties Hoover up URLs like this all the time. There's probably other ones just like this help by the Hillary campaign, and others held by the Obama campaign. If they don't want to use them to build sites, at least they can play "dog in the manger" with a campaign that might want them.
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
I'm not betting against it being the RNC who bought that name
And as Lambert has made the point, so what if they did?
How does an above-board registration justify posting FUD about the legitimacy of online Obama-skeptic Dems?
As to being certain it's the RNC, and the only real evidence we can find that it's truly the RNC, is if it shares the NIC Handle with sites that are certain to be the RNC's. Again, I'm not that exercised about the possibility that it isn't an RNC cite, just saying that info put into a domain registration isn't probative. For that matter, BTW, the internets do not make e-mail sender addresses a legitimate fingerprint, either.
My vote is still mine to dispense as I see fit
I don't see anything underhanded in the RNC registering this domain name, or in McCain courting disaffected Clinton voters. I would be surprised if the Obama campaign didn't register ClintonForObama.
It is the responsibility of both candidates to woo voters. It is my responsibility to not be "bamboozled", to not fall for the "old okeydoke".
Neither candidate has come close to convincing me he is worthy of my vote, but I have more respect for the person who tries to make his case than the one that turns his back and assumes I'll follow.
"Fellow travelers"?
Does any Obama supporter really want to use that particular cudgel this year on anybody?
I think this needs to be golfed
0. "www.clintonsformccain"
....
Well, make up your own tenuous logic. I've gotta go....
And yes, McCain gets to appeal to voters, right?
NOTE Now if there's a real site, organized by Republican forces, that the mensheviks or other oppositional, purge-worthy forces have set up, and that actual, credible, Hillary supporters are using, that's another thing. That's a story. That is not this story.
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
About that "Clinton supporters are dumb" portrait?
Xan, I would have been surprised if the RNC weren't behind it.
So, did you really believe the RNC wouldn't do that, or is this an opportunity to recycle the "deaf, dumb and blind" campaign meme offered by some of Obama's supporters to explain why I am unable to see The Light?
[Sincere apologies in advance if I misconstrued the intent of your post's content to be sarcasm.]
Network Solutions who is
That link is exactly as xan reports. The Republicans have predated on anger, it is all they have ever had.
I took this as a reminder from xan that those pushing the ClintonsforMcCain meme are not our friends and never have been.
it just isn't a very effective way to win over Clinton supporters. The feedback I am getting from a few Clinton supporters indicates an unbelievable level of anger. It is going to take a few months for this to die down.
Obama needs to do something to win over these voters. Other than picking Clinton as VP, I don't know what to suggest.
Obama is the only one who can address this. He has to convince a lot of angry Clinton supporters that he is not running a personality cult.
I think FireDogLake is doing a good job of going in to the specifics of why McSame would be so damaging.
Other than that, the best thing to do is vote and volunteer for women candidates, look for down ballot races that interest you.
Truthfully we would be going through the same thing if somehow Clinton had been able win at the last minute.
But how does info get into WHOIS?
Someone pays for a domain and types the owner info. That's it. You could buy a domain and say it's owned by Judge Crater. Doesn't mean he's still alive or that he bought that domain.
If the domain has a NIC Handle in common with known RNC site, then I'd consider it definitive, as I'm pretty sure you'd have to login to apply an existing NIC Handle to a new domain.
Just pushing accuracy here, not suggesting there's any particular reason to think the registration wasn't by the RNC. We don't know for a fact, that's all.
There is no link
All there is, is a URL, which the RNC purchased. Since there is no site, there is no "link," because when you click on the URL, you don't go anyhwere.
And? Well, there it gets vague.
As far as this, DCB:
I agree 100%. My called shot is that it will never happen.
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Still keeping an arm's length from all of them, myself.
The original post DOES raise a valuable question for frustrated HRC fans to ponder as they click around: who the heck IS at the other end of the line when I sign up for this stuff?
Perhaps unjustly, I've assumed since June 3rd that every last one of these "Hillary Supporter" online movements is a suspect arm of some RNC operation, and I've stayed away from all of them with no feeling that I'm missing anything. YMMV, of course, and I'm not recommending that level of suspicion for everyone in their daily lives, but you know, sometimes being an "independent" means being independent. :)
Again, I Ask
Why does the RNC believe that registering a domain name like this is worth it?
The only way these operations (and it isn't even an operation, it's a URL) work is if there are genuinely disgruntled Clinton supporters to tap into. Otherwise it's just GOP ratfuckers talking to themselves.
It's the same thing about people mocking McCain's attempts to reach out to women voters. Sure, McCain's got a lousy record on women's issues, but pointing only that out conveniently ignores why McCain thinks he can win votes there - that people are angry with Obama. Just as people will ignore why the RNC thinks this site might be worth setting up.
It's much easier to blame the GOP for Democrats' division than, say, the DNC and our presumptive nominee.
"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt
Je repete
Please check upthread, where I point out that political operations scarf up URLs by the bagful, either for their own use or to deny them to others.
Don't think of them carefully crafting URLs; think of them having an intern type in 500 word permutations and and registering them. And then doing it again and again.
That's why this URL is so lame, because "Clintons" fell out of the permutations. Stupid, when you think about it: Clintons, plural? Bill and Hillary?
Honestly, that I've spent the amount of time on this thread disputing a non-gotcha that everybody can already read about over on Atrios... Well, it's not making my support of Obama any less tepid, let me tell ya.
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
BDblue, its both simple and devious
You say
The only way these operations (and it isn’t even an operation, it’s a URL) work is if there are genuinely disgruntled Clinton supporters to tap into. Otherwise it’s just GOP ratfuckers talking to themselves.
No, that's not the only way these operations work. Nor are "genuinely disgruntled Clinton supporters" the intended target.
It's a meme generator whose only purpose is to keep alive the Oh My See How Divided The Democrats Are notion in the media. Where it will, drop by drop, percolate into the background chatter for the great masses of low information potential voters.
It's the same purpose Lieberman serves. He provides cover.
And yes, they would be doing exactly the same things against Clinton if she had won. Please stop for just one unemotional minute and think how you would feel just seeing the existence of "ObamaforMcCain" websites, and be told how Hillary was doomed unless she came up with a way to placate those disaffected voters.
Who benefits? Not us, unless you think a McCain/BushIII administration would be an improvement somehow.
"These operations" sounds like "that group"
There's no evidence on "that group," since there's no site.
There's no evidence on "these operations" because there's no precedent cited, let alone a link.
And as far as meme generators.... Well, front-paging it on Atrios sure was a great way to bring a halt to it all, wasn't it?
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Confluence just had its 1,000,000th visitor...
of course, lots of those are repeats...but for a website that started up just a few months ago, its pretty amazing...
Hi, Xan; welcome back!
Sort of like a margarita party, isn't it?
Except from inside the blender.
So a parked domain, who cares
There is no "that group".
Even a parked domain can generate a meme!
I think that's where we're going with this. We Are So Fucked.
Of course, the Republicans are even more fucked, because they're trying to generate a meme from a site that doesn't even exist.
So I guess, net net, we're good!
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
I have heard from five separate well-placed operatives...
That they have seen the names of domains that the RNC -- or, possibly, a Clinton aide who sent an e-mail to Drudge -- has registered.
I haven't seen the list yet, but I understand that they're racially charged. I'll be posting a major update tomorrow at 9:00AM.
putting words into people's mouths
that is not what xan was suggesting. What I took from it is that there are some very bad people who intend to predate on this. Right now some Clinton supporters are so angry they cannot think. At least, that is how it strikes me.
also, suppose Clinton HAD won, how would we be winning over Obama supporters who were just as angry?
anger turned to bitterness is not empowering. This anger can be empowering only if it is channeled into other causes or down ballot races. Endless ranting against Obama (as oppossed to specific criticisms) is not empowering.
Xan's post implies that
PUMAs on the internets are fakes.
She's "sure" that some are. Why is she sure? Because the RNC registered -- above board -- an awkward and as-yet-unused (at least as a website) domain name that appears intended to attract disgruntled HRC supporters.
Well, sure
But if questioning the evidentiary basis of an argument be bitterness...
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
here Xan...
now, do a fucking whois on all of these websites that are part of the "Just Say No Deal" coalition/PUMA coalition....
I bet you'll find one or two that are associated with the GOP....
writehillaryin.com
clintondems.com
hireheels.com
gopumaparty.com
hillarysupporters.com
writeinpartyusa.org
clintons4mccain.com
hillarygrassrootscampaign.com
riverdaughter
hillaryclintonforum.net
womenforfairpolitics.com
donedems.com
pumaparty.com
hillaryunited.com
savagepolitics.com
noquarterusa.net
liberalrapture.com
nowewont.org
shutthefreudup.com
seatourdelegates.com
pumapac.org
petitionforhowarddeantoresignasdncchair
petitionpledgetovoteagainstobama
petitionhillarydontbevp
millionwomenmarch.blogspot.com
obamawtf.blogspot.com
rezkowatch.blogspot.com
pumapac.blogspot.com
clintondem.blogspot.com
fair-reflection.blogspot.com
bluelyon.blogspot.com
comealongway.blogspot.com
reflections-in-tyme.blogspot.com
thatsmeontheleft.blogspot.com
mccaindemocrats.blogspot.com
worstlittlecaucusintexas.blogspot.com
caucusconfession.blogspot.com
caucuscheating.blogspot.com
florida-michigan.blogspot.com
floridavoters.blogspot.com
hillbuzz.blogspot.com
hillaryorbust.blogspot.com
politicaldiscontent.blogspot.com
independentsformccain.blogspot.com
americaforhillary.blogspot.com
whatsuddenly.blogspot.com
tominpaine.blogspot.com
heidilipotpourri.blogspot.com
annienyc.blogspot.com
womenstate.blogspot.com
guerillawomentn.blogspot.com
alwaysforhillary.blogspot.com
panmetron.blogspot.com
typicalpawhitewoman.blogspot.com
politicallizard.blogspot.com
nobamablog.blogspot.com
investigatebarackobama.blogspot.com
its-obvious.blogspot.com
powerofpuma.blogspot.com
noratings.blogspot.com
spiritedpolitics.blogspot.com
hillarygreenmountain.com
floridademandsrepresentation
paresidentsforhillary.com
hillary-clintons-voice.com
walkamileinourshoes.org
misshillaryclinton.com
democrats-against-obama.org
writeinpartyusa.org
knowobama.org
reclusiveleftist.com
givemehill.com
helphillary.org
hillary-wins.com
sugarnspice
bitterpoliticz
insightanalytical
swingcrats.org
perrylogan
paganpower
4hillaryweblog
mudanpoliticalblog
mccainb4obama.com
citizenpressroom
justwatchmeburn.livejournal.com
capitalhillforum.com
hillaryisourchoice.com
dontvoteobama.com
no-obama09.com
stop-obama.org
vet4hill
the28.org
f-u-dnc
hcsfjm.com
lobbydelegates.com
obama-wire.com
obamaunveiled.com
thedailyhill.com
dncboycott.com
democratinexile.com
belltoll.com
slickbarry.com
ladyboomernyc
onevoteonebrick
dems4mccain.org
takedemocratsback.org
changeandexperience.com
elect2009
londonamerican
texasdarlin
hillaryvillagers
edgeoforever
gaffenation
newwavedemocrats
republicanfeminist
bythefault.com
rabblerouserruminations
kirafasrevo
OF COURSE, THAT INCOMPETENT RACE-PIMP THAT YOU SUPPORT HAS BEEN ASTROTURFING THE WEB FOR A YEAR...
But Its OK if you are Obama...right?
A constructive action would be...
... to use bulk check to go through Paul's list and see if there actually are any real sites that are RNC-sponsored.
Then, we could forward any ratfuckers on to the PUMA people (assuming that they haven't done this already). I'm sure they'd be more than willing to remove any RNC-ratfuckers from their blogrolls.
Anyone?
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
who said anything about PUMA?
xan's post says what it says, that the RNC has registered a domain with the idea of exploiting this. that is all she said.
Thanks for clarifying
In my fantasy world, she also said:
yeah, VL, its nice to know...
that Xan would never stoop so low as to write anything like that....
O RLY!!!
To laugh or to cry?
After all the shit that's gone on during the past few days here at corrente (re:Larry Johnson)...
This is certainly a funny turn of events.
You do know that my comment is snark, yes?
?
And at 9:30AM...
... comes that Mickey Kaus registered www.goatfuckers.com.
Now that would be a story!
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
OMG LOLZ
!
A bit of an authoriarian mindset here.
Fellow traveler? Are we back in the fifties now? The years Reagan recalled so fondly.
Um no.
Didn't get it. =(
LOL.
I have no idea what "PUMA" is
So I could not very well be making accusations about said PUMA of any sort.
I didn't even read here for damn near two months. I found this place as offensive as Kos--which I wasn't reading either except for the Saturday morning Home & Garden sidebar blog--and for the same reason. They were pro-Obama to a degree that was just deranged. Corrente was pro-Hillary to a degree that was (even to a former Correntian!) indistinguishable.
My point being that you came up with a lot of your own insider acronyms during this period with which I am completely unfamiliar.
So those wishing to insult, or accuse me of misdeeds or bad intentions, are politely requested to do it in simple, clearly spelled out language so that I may be properly offended.
thank you. :)
off to work now...yes I have an actual money-paying JOB after all this time, so I had best not lose it in my second week. It's pretty much 2nd shift so will not be back until late night if at all today. Talk amongst yer good selves, I am outta here.
That's quite an argument
You've failed to notice the adoption of a term heavily used around here and other lefty sites in recent weeks, so whatever that term means (google's pretty expensive to use these days, I know), you're sure your post didn't reflect on that topic.
PUMA means "Party Unity
My Ass," in other words folks just like the ones you're implying are (in a substantial enough number to be worth noting) not Democrats at all, they're just Republican plants. You have declined to defend or walk back your implication that you're "sure" of this fact.
You're also making hay about a not-secretly-registered, unused, and kinda crummy domain name. It's kind of interesting to know about (hence I wrote "good catch"), and healthy to bring up lest anyone by fooled by such a site if it:
a) Ever exists
b) Ever gets used
c) Hides its ownership better than the domain registration did
But flogging it as evidence that some group is a significant factor among Nobama voters is obvious over-reaching. That's what you're getting flak for, not because we're so "emotional."
I did...
So those wishing to insult, or accuse me of misdeeds or bad intentions, are politely requested to do it in simple, clearly spelled out language so that I may be properly offended.
I did do that, and my comment got deleted.
Paul!
Calm down.
There's plenty of substance for Xan to respond to,m here. I'm sure we'll all be awaiting it with interest.
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Oh, and "offensive" and "deranged" are nice touches
Beats making a cogent argument every time.
I keep hearing this
But never any examples as to what exactly is being talked about.
CD did the same thing in her "Newbies Suck" (my interpretation of her title) post.