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Anticipating Hillary

bringiton's picture

[Hillary's speech: Since bringiton has framed the issues so nicely, let's use this post as an open thread for Hillary's speech, which TalkLeft and RiverDaughter are liveblogging. CSPAN here.]

It would be a grave error for anyone to underestimate Hillary Clinton.

Obama, to his credit, certainly has not. He leapt at the first opportunity to talk to her, in private at AIPAC, in private by phone, and then in a private, on-on-one meeting at Feinstein’s house. Hillary Clinton has power, Barak Obama both wants and needs some of it, and he will do what he must to get it.

Tomorrow Hillary will formally and publicly do what she must, by acknowledging that Obama has won the right to be called the “presumptive” nominee and pledging her support to his candidacy. If one assumes, as one now must, that the decision of the Party elders to make Obama the Democratic nominee at the Convention is sustained, then the only reasonable alternative to avoid a November disaster is to do these two things.

That is, however, quite different from capitulation and subservience, as the media will try and portray it. Being careful to not use metaphors that can be twisted, I will say nothing about giving someone enough rope; instead let me offer that Clinton will praise the majesty of Obama’s petard, giving him the opportunity to either use it to secure his position or to hoist himself upon it. Shakespeare; should be safe enough.

When I listen to Clinton tomorrow, I won’t be focused so much on what she does say as I will be on what she doesn’t. I don’t expect to hear “quit” or “abandon” or “stop” or anything close to that sort of sentiment. I don’t expect to hear “defeated” or “vanquished” or “finished” either. This race is not over, she knows it and Obama knows it, but for the short term it must appear to all and sundry as though they have completely agreed that it is over.

Were Obama in a commanding position, he and his camp would not care what Clinton says or does. If he had a lock on the delegate count, he could simply ignore her and move on, make McCain his focus and press ahead. But his delegate lead is tenuous, and what the superdelegates have given they can as easily take away. Nothing is even close to final until the gavel comes down at the end of the Convention, and then it depends on Obama not stumbling as badly as Thomas Eagleton did in 1972. Even after the Convention, the Party controls the nominee, not the other way around.

Obama needs to show he can win the general election, and so far he has not done so. The Party leadership believes that if the Party can be drawn together he will be able to do so; for that to happen, in their reasoning, Clinton must step aside and let Obama be seen as the sole remaining option in contrast to McCain.

What Obama and the Party also want is Clinton’s database. Harold Ickes, being Harold Ickes, did not trust Howard Dean or the DNC when Clinton began seriously thinking about the Presidency in early 2005. He put together a wholly independent voter/donor database that overlaps to some degree the lists of the DNC and the Obama camp, but I far more organizationally efficient and mere liberally focused. By liberal I mean not “leftist” but more broadly based, with key indicators like economic status and job category and opinion leanings on core progressive issues. That database is, in many ways the key to the kingdom; it could be built from scratch but probably not as completely, and it would draw resources needed elsewhere. Obama and the DNC want it handed over, and Clinton will want something back in return.

What she wants isn’t entirely clear, but it may not be much. Any promises Obama makes now are not worth the air used to voice them, so policy support cannot matter nor can promises of special treatment for future legislation. She does not want the VP job; it is of no value to her and a danger to him. Would you want Bill lurking about inside the house? Obama wants the Big Dog, but he wants him outside, and preferably on a chain. Let Bill inside and he will, in the theatrical phrase, chew the draperies at every opportunity.

Neither should the Party leaders allow her the VP slot; from a tactical standpoint, in accruing Electoral College votes, she cannot overcome his deficits in the “swing” states. If the roles were reversed, it may be that he would not hurt her too badly; as it is, she cannot provide the pull he needs where he is weakest, amongst white men. He needs a strong, reliable, respectable white male to provide balance; Wes Clark is certainly a possibility, Howard Dean would be a stunning choice for multiple reasons, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. would perhaps be the strongest breakthrough running mate of all. Time enough later to mull that over; for now, the point is that it will not be HRC.

What she wants, I believe, is no more than to not have to appear submissive. She can sell that to Obama on the basis of how offended, and thus unapproachable, her constituency would be at the prospect. If he wants her public fealty he must, as he has carefully done for the last couple of weeks, treat her with unfailing public respect. He cannot demand that she simply abandon her supporters; having them angry at both him and her does no one any good. Thus, she will “suspend” rather than quit.

Obama, and the Democratic leadership, will get what they are asking for; the clear chance for Obama to show what he can do. Whatever that turns out to be, from Clinton’s standpoint it cannot be seen as her fault he should falter. She has to be able to say, without blushing, that she was every bit as supportive as a person could be. If he succeeds in making it through to the nomination, she will be the loyal Party stalwart. Whatever happens after that, Obama will be entirely on his own and she will be well positioned for 2016 or, if need be, 2012.

But all is not rosy for Obama, even in the short term and with Clinton’s data and support. The claim, for some time, has been that once Clinton was out of the way Obama would blow past McCain and sweep to a majestic new Democratic majority. She’s been de facto gone for a while now, more than a month according to the talking heads and they must know the truth, and so the American people should have been able to start sorting out their feelings. So, how’s that going?

The most recent tracking polls have McCain and Obama still statistically even, as they have been for more than a month. Obama has gotten no bounce from “clinching”. Worse, his head-to-head comparators with McCain continue to lag on the key campaign issues. According to Rasmussen yesterday, McCain is ahead on every measure. (Yes, Republican pollsters but the way they ask the questions is the way the Republicans will frame the issues and how the MSM will report them; These are numbers that should give Obama and the Democrats considerable pause:

Photobucket

The overall Favorable/Unfavorable is even, and McCain has a small but insignificant lead on questions of Who most closely shares my values (43 to 42) and a small but significant advantage on Who is the better leader? (43 to 38). Pressing the leadership question, which is a key Republican talking point, McCain crushes Obama on the question of who will most responsibly manage the war in Iraq – a topic on which the Democrats must dominate to win. On national security in general, still the number two national issue, McCain leads comfortably by 51 to 37. Even on the economy, sinking fast and the biggest national worry, McCain holds a slight lead 44 to 40 even thoughhe freely admits he knows nothing about economic policy and has no program to make anything better.

On the Electoral College front, the picture for Obama has not improved since we last looked at it here at Corrente. I put Hillary at 294 Electoral votes and had Obama stalled at 235 with no more than 252 – 255 likely, but what do I, a rank amateur know? Darryl Holman, statistician extraordinaire, had Obama at 262 and Clinton at an IMHO optimistic 313.

How about the Seriously Important MSM experts? What is the current best opinion there? On the KO/MSNBC show last night, highly paid analysts and fancy computer display master Chuck Todd was asked to provide an analysis “now that Obama is the nominee” and mumbled for five full minutes without spitting up anything definitive. Best he could do was venture that if the election turns into a Democratic rout then Obama will win. “Thanks for that, Chuck, and now in other news….”

In today’s New York Times, however, there is an interesting article describing a newish statistical method that retroactively looked at pre-election polls and state voting histories to project the Electoral vote outcome for the 2004 election. The two astrophysicists reporting their study, J. Richard Gott III and Wes Colley, got the eventual outcome for 49 states right, missing only Hawaii (they failed to adjust for the Maui-Wowie factor, I assume).

When the article’s author, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, applied their methods using current polls to project the November outcome, this is what he sees:

When you complete this exercise for each state, Mr. Obama picks up Colorado, Iowa and New Mexico, three states that went Republican in 2004, but he also loses Michigan and New Hampshire, two states that Mr. Kerry had won. Mrs. Clinton loses the previously Democratic states of New Hampshire and Wisconsin, but she would nab 57 electoral votes from the Republicans by winning Florida, New Mexico, Nevada and Ohio.

If the general election were held today, Mr. Obama would win 252 electoral votes as the Democratic nominee, while Mrs. Clinton would win 295. In other words, Barack Obama is losing to John McCain, and Hillary Clinton is beating him.

Pretty reliable sounding, and reasonably in agreement with my numbers so they must be right. (They are astrophysicists, so credit where credit is due; they’ve done well in spite of their training.)

So with Clinton now out of the way and a clear run at McCain, Obama is still in trouble. McCain is seen as more capable, more reliable, and more likely to do the right thing in terms of the mission in Iraq. (What exactly is the mission? Silly question; whatever the mission is, you goose. What are you, unpatriotic?) McCain still leads in the Electoral College, whether your view is from my comfy chair or Holman’s number-cruncher cavern or from deep space, and not even the OFB crowd at MNBC can conjure up a plausible scenario for him winning. Pretty grim.

Hillary Clinton will do what she must now, and watch with the rest of us to see how Boy Wonder does against Mad Maverick in the MMA Summer Showdown. If by the end of August Obama is still struggling, it will be very difficult to keep Clinton sitting on the curb. Maybe that Million Woman March on Denver is not such a bad idea after all.

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amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

he's doing worse than McCain on what's always been our strength--shocking.

and most Dems demand someone who's strong domestically and economically--someone strong where we have always been strong.

oceansandmountains's picture
Submitted by oceansandmountains on

That we have a presidential race in which neither major candidate has a comprehensive economic plan. Just stunning...

Iphie's picture
Submitted by Iphie on

It provided me some much needed perspective.

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

I pulled this poll because it is the most recent one I could find, after Obama was "declared" the presumptive nominee by the media, and all of the questions are the dominant issues that are likely to persist through November. Rasmussen is a rightwing slanted pollster, so there's that, but the econ and "national security" numbers are consistent with what I've seen elsewhere.

Obama needs to step it up.

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

Really appreciate your reports from the field, I ate those up like candy.

Perspective, yes, well. I have so far this season kept from putting my fist through a wall, so I'm doing better than usual for these kinds of things. If some Dem, any Dem, can beat McCain then I'm feeling pretty good about how it will all turn out. Not great, but pretty good.

Anything we can do to get our collective blood pressure back down a bit will be good. Too much anger, too much harshness. IMHO.

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

jawbone, if it comes down to that for Democratic good news they are in it deep. He's a exclusion compass; which ever direction he points, reality is somewhere else.

Pleased you found this worthwhile.

orionATL's picture
Submitted by orionATL on

you a baaad boy

"...that Clinton will praise the majesty of Obama’s petard...".

orionATL's picture
Submitted by orionATL on

this is really a fine piece of analysis - in depth, extensive, and very readable.

i think you are saying that obama and clinton should each go their own way,

with the proviso they help dems in the gen elec.

that is certainly my position.

and, i would add, i really hope clinton doesn't use a lot of her "political capital" to "rescue" an obama candidacy. doing so will only cause grief for the nation and the dem party.

if obama can inspire and lead, he must do so.

if he cannot, he must be allowed to fail on his merits.

thanks

Submitted by hipparchia on

that's what it costs to download a copy of the full journal article, the real one, the one written by the astrophysicists[!!]. i never ever believe any journalist's interpretation of anything published in any scientific or mathematical journal.

unfortunately i could spend an entire year's income in just a few days downloading copies of all the technical articles that i want to factcheck the press' interpretation of [and they're usually just going off the press release, not the real article].

anyway, i was able to read the abstract and the outline of the article without having to plunk down any of my precious gas money, and it looks like the press' interpretation is ok. whether or not the astrophysicists are astute enough judges of the various mathematical models of human behavior that they compared... i can't tell that, since i couldn't get to that part of the paper.

there's some kind of poetic something or other that this study was done by people whose day job is the mathematical modeling of stars.

orionATL's picture
Submitted by orionATL on

and this passage is imaginative:

" He needs a strong, reliable, respectable white male to provide balance; Wes Clark is certainly a possibility, Howard Dean would be a stunning choice for multiple reasons, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. would perhaps be the strongest breakthrough running mate of all. Time enough later to mull that over; for now, the point is that it will not be HRC."

persoanlly,

i always figured sen clinton's v-p would be wes clark. he has been at as many of her public events as anyone else but pres clinton.

i'd hate to see him bail out obama.

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

That said, the thing to watch out for is some incredibly hi-profile VP choice for McCain.

A lot of people in Texas won't vote for Obama, no matter who's on the ticket with him.

orionATL's picture
Submitted by orionATL on

yeah,

somebody young.

to deflect attention from the gray in the mccain campaign.

i figure romney - fake though he be -

or

maybe bloomberg.

but then obama has had his eyes on bloomberg (mayor of n. york), too.

FlipYrWhig's picture
Submitted by FlipYrWhig on

Mitt Romney is 61 years old.

Bobby Jindal (soon to be 37) would be the most interesting youthful gambit/gamble. He's wackadoo by reputation, but I've never seen him in action.

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

At least a little. Neil deGrasse Tyson is one of them. He is a competent astrophysicist, and the author of the NYT op-ed in which he discusses his own use of the method of Gott and Colley on current data.

Tyson is, as we say, bright enough, and he is both cautious and thorough in his scientific work. If he says he used the methodology I accept that he did, and I trust he did so rigorously - it is his way. The method, after all, is not anything very esoteric or difficult to master; give or take a couple of assumption biases, it is the same approach I used in my own recent analyses.

Polls are what they are, shaky at best at this point, sometimes not worth much right at the end - ask Dewey. GIGO rules, so we do need to keep that in mind, and in one of the rare times regular commentor and valued critic Intranets shared my opinion we decided that "accurate" means "agrees with me." Still, Obama is a huge risk for the Democrats.

Submitted by hipparchia on

[ask dewey, indeed, and yes it's early in the game]

ok, i googled. tyson looks both smart and trustworthy. as do you.

but listed among the keywords in the abstract of that paper is 'prediction markets' a term that goes ding!ding!ding!ding!ding!ding! in my head, along with a few other names, places, and phrases. i know zilch about prediction markets, except that they seem to be a darling of behavioral economists, too many of whom strike me as math-smart and behavior-dumb.

[disclaimer: i know just enough about both behavior and mathematical modelling to be both dangerous and useless. feel free to take whatever i say wih a grain or two of salt.]

i do wish all these people would publish here.

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

Agreed that Clinton and Obama will likely move along parallel paths. They share some things; they both want the Democrats to take the White House, and they both want to see downticket wins at the same time. That said, they will remain competitors for at least the summer, and in some ways thereafter. They both have to handle this very unprecedented situation carefully, so that neither of them is harmed. That they are cordially talking about how to do that is very encouraging for the party as a whole.

You can edit until someone clicks on reply, then you're frozen. Otherwise, there would be some who would backtrack and change the narrative.

Fredster's picture
Submitted by Fredster on

a difficult day to watch the event. Kind of like going to a viewing in a funeral home. You know what's going to be there but you still hate to have to do it.

I hope it costs Obama greatly to get that db from Hillary. I'm going to happily delete the first email and shred the first mailing I get from him or the DNC.

I hope that Obama realizes that even after Clinton's announcement it will be up to him to convince her supporters to go for him. She cannot force her 18 million supporters to automatically transfer that support to him. As they say, "Good luck with that."

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

... there's absolutely no way I'd give the entire database. Some fields yes, some fields no.

Give away the crown jewels when the situation is still dynamic? Pas si bete.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

Perhaps, in time. The existing scientific publication hierarchy is terribly corrupted, not all across the board but still big swaths of it. So much absolute crap gets published it is near the point that peer review is doing as much harm as good. Very sad.

Neither Tyson nor I nor Paul Lukasiak whose work we're blessed to see has any particular bias or agenda. That the work is easily confirmed by many others, all of whom come to the same conclusions using different - to one degree or another - approaches speaks I think very clearly that Obama has a huge task ahead of him. There's just no reason for all of us to be in some conspiracy, so there's some comfort there in terms of what is being reported having some relationship with reality. Give or take GIGO.

The most disturbing aspect of this Electoral College business and Obama is the lack of meaningful pushback. The Tyson article will be interesting, because here’s a respected scientist with no political attachment asking WTF? in a very public setting. The ignoring of the question – How will Obama win? – that has been singularly conspicuous will be much harder now to maintain. KO asked it of Chuck Todd on MSNBC and with all the whizbang at their disposal they had nothing. If this doesn’t improve, a lot of other people will be asking the same question and an answer will eventually be demanded.

Or, the Dem leadership will turn out to be right and Obama will, ah, surge into an overwhelming lead, at which time I will with some relief move on to other agenda items.

Submitted by hipparchia on

call me cynical, but i'm expecting it to be buried, ignored, explained away, or poohpoohed, though. after all, the whole purpose of the supers is to counteract the populist choice if in their 'wisdom' they decide we idiots don't know who's more electable.

quite possibly another factor is which of the candidates is more likely to do as the party's power structure wishes them to. edwards sure wasn't sending any signals that he was planning to buy into the status quo, especially on corporate america. his endorsement of obama did not impress me as being especially enthusiastic, but i admit this could be wishful thinking on my part. clinton's i'm going to stay in this race until every last vote gets counted audacity hasn't exactly been a signal of submission either. obama, for all the machismo he's been displaying recently, has actually come the closest to falling in with the party line.

i didn't mean to imply that you or paul or tyson is biased, not at all [you're not robin hanson are you?]. though i'm ok with bias, being a believer in the quaint notion that people can wish strongly for one particular outcome but can still look at the data and produce an unbiased analysis.

me, i'm biased. also skeptical. if i read about it in the popular press, i want to see the journal article. if i read the journal article, i want to see the raw data. it's one of the things i really like about reading this stuff on blogs, if a poster fails to link to a source, there's [almost] always google.

--------

peer review, gak. what was that you were saying about painting tuscan red stripes on dogs? you do know that tarzhay has already beat you to that punch, right?

Submitted by Paul_Lukasiak on

is the difference between the frequencies of the polls used in 2004 and 2008.

The closer you get to election day, the more frequent the polling -- so the "most recent polls" method could work in that environment when there are 6 polls done within a 2 week period. But when its 6 polls done within a 2 month period, I don't seem how one can say 'same methodology'.

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

This is his job to do. Not wishing to be a hindrance myself, nor I would hope is anyone else, and there is no reason to believe that Clinton is anything but genuine in offering her support. But, the problem is his to own, his to solve.

elixir's picture
Submitted by elixir on

recently into a concise analysis of where we are. I'm guessing the next question, and probably one that no one really wants to answer for good reason, is what does it take for the DNC to switch to Hillary. I certainly don't want to be Debbie Downer but it would take quite a serious change in the current situation to have Hillary considered our nominee. Please don't misunderstand, I want it with all my might, but, try to picture what it would take to get HRC back in as our nominee....it won't happen.

As to future plans for Hillary? Please, no VP, no ambassadorship to Bali, no supreme court justice, it ain't gonna happen. So we're left with Hillary going back to the senate which I think is terrific bu in my naivete I thought she could be majority leader - uh, no. Too many people in line ahead of her. Committee chairmanship, wrong again, too many people ahead of her for those seats. So where do we see Our Girl going? That's a post worth discussing. I think she'll be back in NY as senator until 2012.

I love this job!

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

First, don't listen to just the text of Clinton's speech, listen to the subtext. Also watch the setting and visual clues. Many of her NY SDs aren't going to be there because she scheduled it on a Saturday (and reportedly they're miffed it's both too late, it's been four whole days since Tuesday, and too soon, they couldn't rearrange their scheduled. Now, why did she schedule it for a Saturday? So more of her regular supporters could attend. You know, the ones who shouted "Den-ver, Den-ver" on Tuesday. What could possibly look better for her than her playing the loyal Democrat, suspending her campaign, while supporters urge her to fight on? Wouldn't surprise me for a second. Even if the supporters don't do this, my guess is there will be lots of them.

Second, remember every time the media say something awful about her, it makes it that much harder for Obama with her supporters, making that much more likely he will fail in his mission. In other words, welcome their hate. I suspect it's always been some help to Clinton, now it's going to be even more and it reinforces how weak Obama is because even with the hate, he limped across the finish line. Plus, the media's obsession with her, keeps her name in the media. She isn't gone if they won't stop talking about her. Nothing she can do about that. And she's pretty much proven she's immune to their hatred since she's gotten stronger since February.

As for her future, back to the Senate's not so bad is it? In some ways it's the best place to be if you want to torture a young, inexperienced new President over his healthcare policy. If anyone should know that, it's Hillary Clinton.

Finally, going back to the press. Seems like they're a little peeved with Obama already. Now, I think this complaint by them is bullshit, but always remember, McCain threw them a BBQ, Obama whined that he'd answered, like, eight questions. With Hillary out of the way, do you expect Obama to continue getting such skewed favor?

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

he sent them on a wild-goose chase.

Putting them on a plane and not telling them he wasn't with them until the plane was airborne is almost false imprisonment.

His attitude towards the media wasn't ever very nice. I recall the incident with Bill O'Reilly. O'Reilly is a douchebag but the video shows that Obama's aide was deliberately shifting to block the camera shot, and smirking while he did it.

Obama promised O'Reilly an interview "after the primaries" but he still hasn't done it. It's been a good thing for Obama that the media hates Hillary. They've done everything they could to help him, just to defeat her.

But now that she's gone, will that change?

------------------------------------------------
“Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are.”
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

RL calls, big baseball playoff game for grandson, so Hillary will have to get through this all on her own, without me. She'll be fine, she's a tough old bird as well as being a sitting US Senator and worth megamillions. There are people I'll feel sorry for today, but not her. Suck it up, Hil; keep moving.

You all need to be fine too; this is just another turn of a page, not the end of the story.

cenobite's picture
Submitted by cenobite on

This is supposed to be a semi-insider account of the events of the last few days. Could be completely BS but worth a look.

Anyway, apparently, the idea that Obama isn’t going to be able to win the nomination came up while talking to the DNC/supers and the response she received was that Obama brought in a lot of new Democratic voters (and ultimately, a lot of new Democratic money) and thus, while the party might lose the election in the short term (the presidential election, that is), the long term would be good, as the party would have lots of new voters and money.

("Nomination" must be a typo there for "general election")

So yeah, the party leadership knows there's a good chance they'll lose, but they think it's okay because it's in the best long term interest of the party.

I was told that she has never once asked for the VP spot AND that she hasn’t been talking to the Obama campaign at all about what to do next. She came to her decision on her own, but did indicate that she would use some of her delegate support to get the healthcare plan on the Obama platform. ... In fact, from what I understand, Hillary has no obvious desire to be a part of the Obama campaign whatsoever.

In short, the whole VP thing is a wankfest and kabuki dance, she's not interested in helping that ship of fools, but would like healthcare back on the agenda, please.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

esp the stuff about they really don't think they'll win, but are going along with the Party--we see their "go along to get along" attitude every day--in Congress, DNC, all of DC, etc.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

Nobody seems to have noticed that we've got our own "scary smart" commentator....

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

when it was already over for her?

NYT Today-- Clinton Bloc Becomes the Prize for Election Day
-- "... Even the Democratic National Committee chairman is avidly trying to make up for accusations that he allowed sexism in the race to pass unchallenged.

“The wounds of sexism need to be the subject of a national discussion,” the chairman, Howard Dean, said in an interview. “Many of the most prominent people on TV behaved like middle schoolers” toward Mrs. Clinton.
..."

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

Now that the damage is done, everybody wants to make it all better...

And since nobody conscious could have failed to notice it, that means that Dean et al consciously leveraged it while it was happening, because they liked the outcomes.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

unless Obama changes his whole campaign to be about issues instead of rhetoric and "postpartisanship", etc, it's meaningless and insulting

--and they need the media to stay nice to them, so getting "wonky" would kill that too--and complimenting Hillary too much or overtly taking her themes and crediting her for it will hurt them with the media too.

Submitted by jawbone on

so violently against Hillary Clinton? Grrrrr.

Too little, too late, MCM.

But as was pointed out over and over on Bill Moyers' Journal during the discussion about McClellen's new book, the MCM has ignored several landmark dates and occasions when it could have done the mea culpa it so badly needs to write and say about letting and abetting the Maladministration lead us into an illegal, unnecessary and unwinnable war in Iraq, while ignoring the need for wise action in Afghanistan.

So good--catch the rebroadcast or watch on the web.

Point being that the MCM does not admit mistakes. It so embarrassing to hear them Big MCMers say over and over that they did all they could in the runup to the Iraq Invasion. Greg Mitchell and people from McClatchy gave examples of their sorry assed justifications. Landay noted that Charlie Gibson said they had asked all the right questions, but, per Landay, never asked them of the right people who might have told them the actual facts, not the WH spin.

Also interesting discussion with Kathleen Hall Jamison and a black professor (strong supporter of Obama who did note Obama should not do townhall meetings with McCain bcz he's so bad in that type of situation!), former Jesse Jackson staffer. Sexism got short shrift, alas. Moyers brought it up; Jaminson tried to say something; prof ignored it.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/060620...

Reply to amberglow @ 11:52, 6/7 (for those not nested).

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

they act like they're simply passive and never actually act in certain ways or only push certain views or not too--it sucks.

(i'll watch that--i missed it before--thanks!)

Submitted by gob on

on the Iraq war thing. I lived in Philadelphia at the time and read their paper (the Inquirer). I honestly couldn't understand why my family and friends elsewhere were so uninformed, because I was getting plenty of info about how bogus the Bush people's justifications were. They did a pretty good job when everyone else was just singing along.

Not that that takes away from the main point here at all. Sorry if I'm too off-topic.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

Now that's a counter-narrative I could live with...

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

Good.

Of course, I've got to golf this one.

0. "suspend"
1. Hang
2. Lynch
3. Hillary wants to kill Obama!

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

whaleshaman's picture
Submitted by whaleshaman on

you wrote previously: Nobody seems to have noticed that we’ve got our own “scary smart” commentator….

Correction, it should be ...commentators....

More than a few, I'd say, and I'm grateful to you all.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

"we add another Dem president to that very small list of the past 40 years"

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

"And we get?"

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

What, you were expecting something else?

cenobite's picture
Submitted by cenobite on

A front row seat at a train wreck.

orionATL's picture
Submitted by orionATL on

was

"i'm suspending my campaign".

i heard it.

thank god. there's still two and 1/2 months to hope for a miracle.

and that reference to the only two-term democratic president since franklin roosevelt died in 1945?

i hear that loud and clear,

as a two-edged comment.

now, let's see

2009 minus 1945 is?

64 years.

that's a long, long, long, time.

what's four more years of repub rule?

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