Armies mobilize, people gather

lambert's picture

Jack Crow has it exactly right. And so Matt Yglesias -- "The Cost Of A Demobilized Left" -- has it exactly wrong.

Generally, I'm not a "worse is better" kind of guy. However, if Obama had decided to keep the OFA intact, instead of demobilizing it, I think the only thing different would be more conversion narratives from a new set of fresh-faced innocents. I think a lot more of us know where we really are now. So when you think about it, President Fuck You really did us all a big favor.

On "mobilization" .... I'm revisiting my posts on Tahrir Square, and there are at least two consistent threads from the commentariat: One is the demand for a leader (implicitly, "Who do we negotiate with?") and the other is great frustration because the occupiers were making their own decisions, en masse , about when to march and where (implicitly, "We've got producers to answer to!"). The equivalents here seem to be "Why don't they dress for success?" (implicitly, why don't they adopt our cultural and class markers) and "What are their demands?" (implicitly, "What's the payoff?") There seems to be little regard for letting a process take place, organically.

Let's all do what we can and are fitted for, and relax a bit.

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Jack Crow's picture

Thanks

Thanks, Lambert.

It's also perhaps fitting that Yglesias closes out his arrow-in-foot moment with a footnote again blaming Nader for the election of Bush.*

It's like the numbers, poll results, voting totals and figures are unavailable to him.

* - my own footnote: Gore would not have been significantly better than Bush, especially with regards to the big ticket projects: Iraq, greenwashing, bailouts, militarization and other "humanitarian" wars. At best, eight years of Gore would have set the ground for McCain to take the blame for economic collapse.

danps's picture

So I keep thinking about

all these TELL US YOUR DEMANDS ALREADY types as horny, frustrated teenage boys who haven't developed any anticipation skills and the OWS folks as the more mature types who can appreciate the value of delaying gratification. Who are the adults again, and who the kids?

Aeryl's picture

Yea, they definitely

Feel like people who don't understand the value of FOREPLAY.

He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond

okanogen's picture

Facts not in evidence. At all.

You just had to blow it with the Nader love. Falling right in Yglesias's trap. When I read this Nader apologist, Gore would ave been as bad as Bush crap, it turns me cold on the rest of what anyone has to say. Let's move forward from here and agree on different views of that long ago history. It's nothing but a divider.

In reply to Jack Crow.

Sorry, I don't fall in love with politicians. I'm not that desperate.....

Jack Crow's picture

Don't Vote

I don't vote. I didn't support Nader. I don't love Nader. The numbers still don't lie. Ralph Nader did not cost Gore - a supporter of the Iraq and Afghan invasions, a supporter of the bailouts, a supporter of the established order, a supporter of big oil and big finance, a conservative woman hater for most of his career - the election.

okanogen's picture

Again, facts not in evidence

If you are going to continue to make these accusations, provide evidence.

Regarding his supporting the Iraq Invasion, unless you are deliberately conflating the first one, in this speech prior to the AUMF Gore specifically and very publicly warns against not only the Iraq invasion, but the whole concept of preventive war which was at the heart of Bush's policy. He was roundly rebuked for even weighing in on it. So I think I can safely say you are wrong there.

Regarding supporting big oil here is an interview in 2008:

You tried to raise the gasoline tax when you were vice president.
When I came in as vice president in 1993, I proposed a very large CO2 tax that would be offset completely by reductions in payroll taxes and an increase in the earned income tax credit. In terms of the total [government] revenue raised, it would be neutral. It wasn't a tax increase. But it would send a price signal that would help us get off our dependence on oil. It passed one house of Congress and then narrowly failed by one vote in the other house. It ended up, unfortunately, being only a small increase in the gasoline tax, which just made people mad and didn't really have any impact on the problem.

Should we try it again despite the economic downturn?
I don't think that's likely to happen, but that's my preferred alternative.

So you would put a tax on carbon, complemented by a tax cut for poor people?
Not only for poor people, but middle income people. We should tax what we burn, not what we earn. I understand why [my plan] is a very difficult lift for the American political system. There are other, indirect ways to put a price on carbon. The cap-and-trade system that president-elect Barack Obama is endorsing is also an effective way to go about it. I also think it's very significant, by the way, that China is now talking about its own domestic cap-and-trade legislation.

Regarding bailouts:

Whatever assistance might be forthcoming should be focused on speeding the changes that are absolutely essential to ensure that our companies are competitive in the global marketplace. When I was vice president, I initiated a program called the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles. The federal government invested over a billion dollars in partnership with the Big Three to focus on the accelerated development of advanced high-efficiency vehicles. But as soon as they felt they were off the hook at the end of 2000, they pulled the plug and walked away.”

Regarding big finance:

Instead of a financial bailout, Gore said, “I think we need to bail in renewable energy and green building.” The green building revolution, he said, is the solution to the economic crisis, the debt crisis, the security crisis, and the climate crisis.

Like in D.C., where so many are saying, “We could have prevented this,” now is the time to prevent a meltdown of the environment, Gore stressed.

I know it's a feel-good bromide to get in some good Al Gore dissing to win some anti-Dem purity points, but please try to back it up with some evidence. Gore and Bush were not the same.

Sorry, I don't fall in love with politicians. I'm not that desperate.....

Jack Crow's picture

People See What They Want to See

Gore's parsing some words, with positive support for the over all programs. Some people see that as Not-Bush.

I see the son of Occidental and his years as a DLCer and conservative, a proponent of NAFTA, an architect of the murder of a million Iraqis (sanctions, no-fly zone), a greenwasher in bed with GE, and one more of the same.

Some liberals still see the Not-Bush.

Next they'll tell me Hillary wouldn't have invaded Libya or sat mum during Cast Lead.

Anyway, technocrat Gore:

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/gore/gor...

Shorter: "If we're gonna do Iraq, let's make sure we can still kill people elsewhere."

lambert's picture

Yglesis tossed the apple of discord

Funny, that.

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