The news is still sketchy, but Oregon TV station KCBY is reporting that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has arrested two men in connection with a plot to break into an African-American school (not yet named) and kill students to kick off a national murder spree. The men said they did not expect to succeed in assassinating Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama, but to be slain trying.
Jim Cavanaugh, special agent in charge of ATF's Nashville field office, said the two men planned to kill 88 people, including 14 African-Americans by beheading. The numbers 88 and 14 are symbolic in the white supremacist community.
Props to the Crockett County TN SO for stopping the two men.
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More from TL here
They hadn't bought guns but... Ugh. Props, indeed.
UPDATE Bloomberg reran their transition story, mentioning that there was an assassination attempt on FDR in the 1932 transition period -- that got Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak instead. So I'm sure people are alive to that history.
UPDATE More from AP. They remind me of Ohio's meth freak neighbors who got evicted and thrown and jail, or whatever.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
The meth heads got what's legally known as "The Boot"
There's a story. I'll try to tell it later.
Fantastical
The story is fantastical. It reminds me of the story of the supposed terrorist ring in Miami that wanted to blow up the Sears Tower, but couldn't have done it if they wanted to (i.e. wants vs. means).
Kudos to the ATF for catching these low-lifes.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
Real threats
There are a lot of real threats, some fantastical and some very serious. That's why chasing bogus claims of "kill him" is so bad. All threats are treated seriously so propagating BS tales takes resources away from the real threats.
I hope we can focus on these more real threats instead of politically motivated McCain hit pieces.
Only tyrants rig elections.
The world won't end.
So stop with the crap.
These stories are ridiculous.
The World Won't End If What?
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Be very careful how you respond.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
Damon, step back, dude.
If what?
The world will go on whether we like it or not.
Obama isn't going to save us.
But you knew that.
That's not an answer.
That's a worm. Whether these guys had the means to carry out their plan or not (and I don't think they did), and whether the media is sensationalizing this, that doesn't change their horrible intentions.
Again, the world wouldn't end if what happened? If you're saying what I think you are, you're being insensitive at the very least.
There are things to criticize about this story, what no one should do is somehow make light of their intentions or the possible results of such a plan. And, I really hope that's not what you were trying to do.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
I'd expect there to be many instances
similar to this against all the candidates. Don't they usually try to keep them quiet, so as not to encourage all the other crazies?
Are they going to go after the guy who put up a hanging effigy of Palin? (which the ever-fabulous Heidi Li comments on here).
Reasonable men adapt themselves to their environment; unreasonable men try to adapt their environment to themselves. Thus all progress is the result of the efforts of unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw
The ever-fabulous Heidi Li
The one who's pitched a fit over the Palin effigy, wants Obama to drop everything and convene a summit of all of his staff to do something and then he should say something and meanwhile stop campaigning - that Heidi Li?
Where was fabulous Heidi and her outrage over this hanging of an Obama effigy in Oregon or this one in Ohio or this web posting from the GOP in California advocating that Obama be tortured or when this gathering of racists advocating Obama's assassination was revealed? Did she take time to insist that McCain – or anyone at all – step up to the plate and condemn those actions? Did she herself condemn them?
Busy, maybe, the ever-fabulous Heidi, hanging around with people who would title a blog post thusly:
Neck-snapping and a black man, indeed. Who wouldn’t find that hilariously witty?
And of course Heidi is also busy raising money to run anti-Obama TV advertisements in battleground states comparing him to Nixon, because nothing says Progressive like working to put Republicans into office.
Tell me, adoring fan of the ever-fabulous Heidi Li, can a legitimate Progressive movement be built on false advertising and selective outrage while employing terms of violence against a political opponent?
Something is being missed, here.
At the heart of the story is plan that they were wanting to kill a plethora of innocents at a predominately black college. It sounds like going after Obama was an unrealistic afterthought. I'm a bit confused by the reaction, here. The planned assassination was only part of the plan, and not even the most realistic part of it, in fact.
The reaction to this should be one of horror and/or disgust. I guess since Obama was added in, there, everyone just focuses on that part of it? To me, the main part of the story is the murderous rampage planned against a bunch of innocents folks based on nothing other than their color, but, somehow, that seems all to be missed by some, here.
I guess I was expecting what I would thought would be a natural human reaction. Instead, we get one guy totally ignoring the main part of the story, and then trying to rationalize and explain away what would (or wouldn't) happen if this plan was carried through, as if anyone should have even been considering that in the first place since the guys were caught.
Really, WTF
?
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
A natural human reaction
based on a media-generated story?
There's more heartache and tragedy in normal people's lives everyday.
Don't even go there.
"They were planning"?
They were foiled. Goody. Happens all the time.
What the hell, man?
What don't you get? Were not these men have alleged to be plotting to shoot up a school? Do you believe the entire thing is a hoax?
Your anger is astoundingly misplaced. Whether the story is being sensationalized or not, do you not understand what these men are accused of?
I'd tell you not to go there, but you already went there with the insensitive "the world wouldn't end." That your mind went there before it seems to have gone anywhere else is amazing. We're talking the plotting of a random school massacre, here, and the first place your mind goes to is "well, it wouldn't be the end of the world." Hell, yes, I'm offended. You wouldn't be saying this if it were your family or your community.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
I'm not a man.
This is just another story of something that didn't happen.
Hurray. They were caught.
I'll save the outrage for all the stuff that is happening all the time.
It's not so much the feeling of outrage...
... but what I experience as a demand for a feeling of outrage. I've had a bellyful of people demanding that I feel this way or that way in this primary already; like Ophelia, "I cannot heave my heart into my mouth."
Thank The God(ess)(e)(s) Of Your Choice that these guys got caught before they actually acquired weapons.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Oh, that's different.
Are they going to go after the guy who put up a hanging effigy of Palin?
Unbelievable.
These turkeys were apparently going to go "Columbine" on
a predominately black high school in a city in the Nashville district.
That they were stopped form pulling off THAT bit of bigoted mayhem pleases me enormously.
What's wrong with being happy that dozens of families DON'T have to face the tragedy these idjits had planned???
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Memphis area not Nashville
...this all happened in West Tennessee just North of Memphis and not too far from Arkansas. One of the guys was from AR the other from TN.
I read the affidavit and it wasn't specified that they actually had a specific school in mind. The officers were like 'which school? take your pick' because many of the schools in the area are predominantly black -- about 60/40.
There's a lot of conflicting information about this whole thing. Thank God they were caught before they were given a chance to act on any of it.
DamonMI, I don't think it was a college they were targeting but a high school. There was a college in Arkansas where there was a shooting a day or so ago that you're probably thinking of. I think people may be focused on the Obama aspect because that's what a lot of media are focused on. I agree that the other plots should be getting more attention especially given the scale involved.
PB 2.0 - Supplement the wonk!
PB 2.0 - Supplement the wonk!
Re responses to murder plot story
An old saying: golf doesn't build character, it reveals it. Same goes for commenting.
This country kills its own for reasons large and small. May we all escape the dark, bitter plots of stupid people.
++++
They were dregs...
... but the country is also a cracking tower that creates a lot of dregs.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Dregs
Lee Harvey Oswald was dregs. James Earl Ray was dregs. Sirhan Sirhan (though not American) was dregs.
The Columbine killers were dregs. The guys who carried out last weekend's dragging death were dregs. Timothy McVeigh was dregs.
Like, the football quarterback goes on a rampage?
Being "dregs" does not make one ineffectual in perpetrating horrendous crimes.
And?
Yes, fortunately they were arrested before they had the chance to acquire weapons. Excellent!
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
The Point Was a Good One
Imelda's point was more than relevant, I thought. It was directed at your reaction to what was obviously trying to downplay their existence by calling them dregs, as if millions of people wake up in the morning planning to massacre children and kill a politician.
It's telling that in order for something horrible to elicit your condemnation or a simple poo-poo you can't feel put upon or demanded of. You know, because that's personally the first thing I think about when I hear about something horrible. You know, because the first thing I do when I hear or see of something horrible is ask myself whether or not someone's trying to demand a response from me.
That's irrational stubborness for the sake of stubborness.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
Damon: "as if millions of people wake up in the morning plan
ning to massacre children and kill a politician."
Actually they do, Damon.
It's their job. They consider it planning the defense of their country, or the takeover of the country they want to make theirs. Just because they're not in your backyard doesn't mean they don't exist. Some of 'em wear uniforms with lots of pretty decorations on the jackets and report to duly-elected presidents, prime ministers, etc., etc., etc.
Don't think for a minute I'm telling you a lie.
In my youth I was one of several thousand such people in Louisiana, and the government not only knew about me, it fed, housed, clothed, insured and paid me. I was enlisted. I was on a SAC base. At that time there were more than two dozen such bases in the country, and that didn't count all the other US air bases -- ATC, AAC, TAC, PACAF, USAFE -- on US soil (and around the world). Nor the other three major branches of the military, nor the Coast Guard.
Lambert's point was not that these ... conspirators ... lack efficacy, but that they lack basic human decency.
There are planners out there, Damon, and killers too.
Some of them are out there to protect you. Others, like these ... lowlife amateur terrorists ... are not.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
They seem to already have had weapons...
they were trying to acquire more in the break in (I guess I don't know weapons well enough to know how many are needed for a killing spree).
Or am I missing some anti-gun snark...
Reasonable men adapt themselves to their environment; unreasonable men try to adapt their environment to themselves. Thus all progress is the result of the efforts of unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw
Ah, I remember the break in now
I was going by this report. Somebody, not me, should do a wrap up on this one...
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Acquired weapons
For a start:
One of the idiots, from his myspace page:
Worth several thousand words, BIO
but the one that comes to mind first and foremost is "wannabe."
Although what, exactly, this character wants to be is up in the air.
Hard? Well, so the swastika and black tank top suggest -- but the black tank, like the pouty lips, soft chin, and shadowed eyes, also suggests something much softer. The stance is showoffy, not disciplined, and the weapon ... don't get me started.
One of these guys was, IIRC, 20 and the other 18. At that same age several of my neighbors have finished basic and been to the Middle East -- one several times.
Unless they'd modified the receiver on the rifle, the only really illegal weapon in that stash would've been the sawn-short scattergun. But of course, it isn't the tools that create the mayhem. It's the tool-using monkeys.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Wannabe
Exactly. Wanna be somebody, and so empty inside the only way that can happen is through the destruction of others. The sad part is that thanks to modern technology anyone can do it, kill people by the dozens. Hell, with the right management and family connections a souless sadist can even be president, kill millions.
Time was, when a man's gun was worn outside his pants for all the honest world to see, that idiots like this didn't get very far. Even a William McCarty eventually got taken care of.
Not advocating for a complete return of those days but still; I have no patience for this sort of idiocy, and precious little for the idiots. Either we get rid of nearly all the guns, or everyone should start packing.
I keep reminding people : the original anti-handgun laws
were meant to stop the sale of the "inherently dangerous" Saturday Night Special. Easily concealed cheap handguns usually in .32 or smaller calibers. Affordable in the post-WWII era even if you were black.
Yeah, one maker sold substandard parts. That wasn't what made NYC and DC and Chicago politicos anti-handgun. It was not then, is not now, and never will be about consumer safety. It was about guns in the hands of somebody other than the duly constituted authorities (aka poor people, aka brown people).
Or, as Roy Innes famously said:
"To make inexpensive guns impossible to get is to say that you're putting a money test on getting a gun. It's racism in its worst form."
Take a look at the rifle that wannabe has in his grip.
Trust me -- it's not deer, table game or bear he bought that to shoot. Thing like that's not cheap, or easily concealed -- which appears to be, sadly, the point of his having acquired it.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18