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this is how the left loses
this is how we get the reputation for being worthless friends and harmless enemies. Instead of shoping for pro-constitution Democrats challenging Republicans, and showing this issue and this coalition can deliver our vote, Greenwald is picking unwinnable fights.
And would these people know a better Democrat if they saw one? The record of netroots endorsed candidates is not great.
getting rid of bad democrats....
the problem is one of timing... and Greenwald's timing is off if he is telling people to vote for Obama.
Its a great strategy if McCain is elected -- get rid of some bad Democrats this year and in 2010, and win back those seats by 2012, while retaining control of the Senate the whole time.
But Dems are gonna need every seat they can get this year if Obama is elected, because there will likely be massive losses in 2010 and 2012 with Obama in the White House, and in 2012 the GOP could win control of the House, Senate, and the Presidency.
This year, Greenwald should concentrate on the Dem leadership -- especially by supporting Sheehan against Pelosi. Sending Pelosi (and the rest of the leadership) a message that progressives aren't going to take their crap lying down would be the smartest thing to do for those who support Obama.
Pelosi
Pelosi is the only thing standing between us and Speaker Steny Hoyer. Pelosi held firm on Social Security, and we will need someone like her of Obama tries to reform or fix Social Security.
Besides, I want a woman in power.
The assumption is...
you're assuming that Pelosi will lose --- but that's highly doubtful. The idea here is to put a scare into her with a credible threat for her tenure from Sheehan. She (and the rest of the leadership) need to get the message that progressives are fed up, and aren't going to take it anymore.
As to Pelosi standing strong on Social Security -- we saw how she "stood strong" on FISA. Pelosi didn't stop Bush's privatization scheme, the people did that. And anyone who thinks that if Obama wins that Pelosi will stand up to him is crazy.
And I hope you weren't serious about that "woman in charge" stuff!
So Glenn wants progressive Dems instead?
As we've seen this election season, some of the worst capitulationists are not those who define themselves as Blue Dogs, or as moderate or even conservative Democrats. It's those who proudly trumpet their progressive credentials, or get pegged by others as having them, who then roll over and play dead on issues progressives allegedly care about.
Yeah, if the netroots are anything to go by, trusting only those who call themselves liberal/progressive is a real winner of a strategy.
you do her an injustice
though out the whole fight Hoyer, Emanuel and others kept going to Pelosi and saying things like we have to have our own plan and she kept responding we have a plan, Social Security, is that good enough for you?.
It is true there was tremendous popular opposition to privatizing Social Security, but don't underestimate the value of having the Speaker on your side.
But, but...
"According to the storyline that drives many advocacy groups and Democratic activists - a storyline often reflected in comments on [Daily Kos] - we are up against a sharply partisan, radically conservative, take-no-prisoners Republican party. They have beaten us twice by energizing their base with red meat rhetoric and single-minded devotion and discipline to their agenda. In order to beat them, it is necessary for Democrats to get some backbone, give as good as they get, brook no compromise, drive out Democrats who are interested in ’appeasing’ the right wing, and enforce a more clearly progressive agenda. The country, finally knowing what we stand for and seeing a sharp contrast, will rally to our side and thereby usher in a new progressive era.
I think this perspective misreads the American people."
— Barack Obama, September 30, 2005 (explaining away the decision by some Senate Democrats to vote in favor of John Roberts)
http://www.correntewire.com/an_open_lett...
As Duncan would say...
heh...
**********
The best thing in the world for the progressive movement would be a McCain win this year. Both Obama and McCain are likely to fall into the 'failed presidency' category thanks to the Bush hangover, and progressives can oppose Blue Dogs as "McCain Democrats" in the 2010 and 2012 primaries if McCain is president.
And Obama presidency screws progressive in a multitude of ways -- including (as your quote suggests) the redefinition of the Overton window by Obama.
What I'd like to know
Is why when an incumbent R is challenged in a primary, and generally loses to a rightwing nutter, the pundits et al say he/she lost because they weren't conservative enough.
Why can't the D party pull off this same dynamic? The country as a whole is simply not a center right country, even though our media overlords have done their best to push us into believing that as a fact.
Why can't the D party push a little purity test through in safe D districts? Ala Al Wynn vs. Donna Edwards. That was manna for my soul, and I only hope she goes on to be the leader she campaigned as.
bec of Schumer and Emanuel--
they pick and choose which Congressional candidates to support in both houses--and they always pick the most conservative. And they kill all challengers to sitting Dems no matter what.
Here in NY they're killing the more liberal challenger to Vito Fossella's seat and supporting the Republican-lite. -- Despite Fossella’s Exit, Unity Eludes Democrats --
"... One candidate, Michael E. McMahon, a city councilman who represents the North Shore of Staten Island, is a self-described moderate who says he has a record of winning elections in a moderate-to-conservative part of New York.
The other, Stephen A. Harrison, a Brooklyn lawyer who ran against Mr. Fossella two years ago, refers to himself as a progressive who did better against Mr. Fossella — he won 43 percent of the vote in 2006 — than any other Democrat in previous elections.
Political labels aside, there are stark differences between the two. Mr. Harrison opposes capital punishment, while Mr. McMahon supports it. The councilman favors nearly all means of addressing the nation’s energy problems, including offshore drilling, something Mr. Harrison opposes. Mr. McMahon supported Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg’s ultimately unsuccessful congestion pricing plan, while Mr. Harrison opposed it.
On the Iraq war, Mr. Harrison has demanded an immediate withdrawal of American troops, while Mr. McMahon said he supported “a responsible redeployment of our troops in Iraq.”
... Despite Mr. Harrison’s strong showing in 2006, virtually all of the Democratic establishment has endorsed Mr. McMahon, from local officials to Senator Charles E. Schumer and the Democratic members of Congress from New York City. And Representative Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, broke with a longstanding tradition of not taking sides in a primary and also endorsed Mr. McMahon. ..."
Not completely true
I know someone who is pretty far up in choosing who the DCCC will support and this person is one of the more liberal DCCC members. One of the criteria is the candidate's self-sufficiency. I lived near CA-11 district so I asked that person about McNerney versus Filson in the Dem primary (2006). McNerney supposedly had a lot of "grassroots support" (to me, use of "grassroots" is almost always a spurious way to attack an opponent) but one reason the DCCC didn't jump to McNerney was because the guy could raise primary money at all. Filson, on the other hand, could have $100,000 events almost at will. It wasn't about liberal versus conservative. If McNerney had demonstrated any ability to raise funds during the primary, the DCCC would have stayed out completely.
Also, many of the seats targeted by the DCCC were open seats which are much easier to win than incumbent races. My point is that not everything is about more conservative candidates.
show me them getting involved on the side of the more liberal
primary candidate--i never see it--ever.
They most often actively jump in against them and give money and backing to the more conservative one.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/06/... -- Democratic Leadership Council united behind Obama --
"...Ford introduced U.S. Rep Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) as “The de facto leader of our organization.”
Emanuel recruited moderate and even conservative Democrats to help take back the House of Representatives two years ago with pragmatic approach that a majority of Democratic legislators who weren’t with the party platform on 100 percent of the issues was better than a Republican majority. ..."
I think ggm has something there...
people like Emmanuel and Schumer aren't about ideology, they are about cold hard cash -- who can raise it for themselves, and who is willing to hand over their checkbook to E & S to write more checks for candidates that E & S choose.
And people with money, or access to money, tend to be far more 'establishment' than those that comce from progressive communities.
A candidate like Jerry McN is worthless to Rahm & Chuck, because he Jerry can't/won't write checks for $2,300 for whomever Rahm and Chuck says. So they find a guy who can/will increase the personal power and influence of Rahm and Chuck.
Schumer is about ideology--
it's clear-- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howie-klei...
he always picks the more conservative one--in every race.
(and Jim Neal had his own millions to run with but Schumer pulled someone else in purposely to kill his chance)
and he did it against Mitch McConnell as i type-- http://www.politicker.com/fischer-camp-s...
-- the primary guy not as rightwing: "...“I’m fighting back now, also. Because there’s powers in Washington D.C. - you know, led by Chuck Schumer, and you all are hearing this just as well as I am – that he’s trying to manipulate this election in Kentucky,” Fischer said. “He’s trying to force on us someone that is not a contrast to Mitch McConnell. Because we need a contrast candidate to beat Mitch McConnell. We need somebody with a clean record, a clean background, somebody that will listen…” ..."
"Primary Challenge Scares Nadler into Considering Impeachment"
--Nadler's my Rep -- http://www.democrats.com/primary-challen...
I'm With Paul
Scorched Earth for the Dem Leadership.
Underlings will see the trends and politic accordingly.
grep -i dem HouseFisaVote SenateFisaVote | grep -i yea > /dev/n
Neither Obama nor McCain will make a great or even good president. The Democrats, my former party of 35 years, claim they can fix us. The House and Senate are where every issue can be addressed, regardless of who is POTUS.
However, witness the duplicitous, cowardly, traitorous, self-serving performances of the Democrats in the current assemblies, even going as far as undercutting The Constitution.
Their mealy-mouthed, hand puppet, Obama, is lock step with the majority of the majority, reversing his promises and positions on Progressive issues, and, disgracefully voting to undercut The Constitution.
There is only one answer for me and others -- a sharp stick in the eye of the Democrat(ick) Party -- bust up the Obama, Pelosi, Hoyer, Reid, ... -- deny the Blue-Crap-Cabal.
Rahm & Chuck
are all AIPAC, all the time
A couple of things...
First, I don't know if I like party purges based on affiliation -- that seems a lot like what happened to Clinton supporters. That said, I do like the idea of running progressive primary challengers everywhere possible. Nothing wrong with that at all but to do it just to hurt an incumbent that doesn't represent your district? Why not field a progressive that can win? Why not spend the time and money investing in states and districts in order to make progressive ideology a DEMAND of the voters?
Further, I don't know that it is so easy to determine whether someone is good or bad based solely on whether or not they're a blue dog. On paper, their claim to wanting a balanced budget isn't a terrible thing. I agree completely that capitulating to criminal/unethical acts by the Bush Administration is definitely a bad thing but I don't know if this is a problem that can solely be blamed on blue dogs.
Finally, and this is a big issue for me because I live in the South, attacking blue dogs potentially eliminates my available choices in representation. Greenwald doesn't have to live with the potential loss of a democratic representative in the same way those of us who live here do and won't feel any effects as long as democrats perform well nationally -- I and many, many, others will feel those effects. So when he says that it doesn't matter because democrats will still have a majority, what he should really be saying is that it doesn't effect him.
PB 2.0 - Supplement the wonk!
PB 2.0 - Supplement the wonk!
What tnjen said
Exactly.
There is no one-size-fits-all approach that works, no cookie-cutter policy that will benefit all across the country in every district. Sometimes, better is the best that can be had.
If progressive goals are worthwhile, we should be able to formulate policies that are attractive to enough of a majority that they become the standards politicians must meet to be elected. To the extent that we fail to accomplish that simple task, we will fail to achieve our goals.
Hmm! Local?!
That would be the only way. One thing for sure, national issues, AS SUCH, aren't doing it for us. Otherwise, we'd be looking at presumptive nominee Dennis Kucinich or possibly John Edwards.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
All politics is local
grassroots and all. The power of national democracy, when it is working, is as an aggregator of local opinion and demand. What progressives have done, just to be didactic about it, is a two-fold error. We have allowed our differences between specific interest groups to overwhelm our greater common interests, fundamental issues around which we should be making common cause, and we have allowed the Right to win the debate on values and the worthiness of goals in large part because they appeal to emotions while we stubbornly insist on an approach from reason alone.
That fixation on reason is one of the causes for discontent among some traditional progressives with Obama's soft-focus emotion-based style, and when I say that I am pointing right into the mirror. The soft, squishy concepts like Hope make my skin crawl, yet it is exactly that approach - but from the negative side - that the Right has used effectively to marginalize the Left and convince the Middle to side with them. We need better slogans, because Vacuous Bush with simple Flag and Fear slogans will beat Smart Dennis with detailed position papers on peace and healthcare every day of the week.
Properly formulated, policies that connect education and health care and a living wage to the lives of the American Middle can transform the nation and reach into the hearts and minds of every working class individual regardless of their background or their aspirations, because we are bound together by many more things than there are ways to divide us.
Segmental appeals to special interests, however, begin by emphasizing precisely those differences. Feminism, racial civil rights, gay rights, etc etc, inherently set apart the interest group from the whole and force alienation as a key part of the dynamic.
The Right is handed the club with which to defeat us; we craft it for them. There are more straights than gays; instill them with a little fear, just a little, and the power of numbers insures that gay rights are defeated. The same works for any issue where a divide between the majority and the disenfranchised minority can be drawn.
Education is cast as a religious issue through prayer, or race with bussing, and attacked from the view of taxation; the conversation revolves around anything but education, and the Right wins these arguments because there are more religious people than agnostics, there are more white people than colored, and nobody wants to pay taxes. Meanwhile, poor white people in the Tennessee hills are equally penalized by poor education as are poor black people in downtown Detroit; they should be allies, and instead they are opponents. They are opponents because we have failed to communicate to them their common needs.
I am all for primary challenges, and all for electing progressives to office; where ever they present themselves as candidates who can possibly win, they should be embraced. With only a few exceptions though, those opportunities for this cycle are already settled and further focus for now must be on the stark realities of political possibility - any emocrat is better than any Republican. Where there are progressives on the general election ballot, they should get the full backing of every progressive in the country. It is as important for progressive goals to elect Darcy Burner to the House as it is to elect a Democrat as president.
But putting energy into running Cindy Sheehan against Nancy Pelosi is just plain foolish. (I quite like Cindy, she has a good heart; some of those around her, pushing her into becoming a caricature of herself, not so much.) Pelosi has already spread the word that Sheehan is to be treated with respect; no harsh words, no matter what, dignity and calm and professional is the way to deal with her. All said and done, Nancy will return to DC next January having won 70% of the district vote instead of 80% and altogether be none the worse for wear - nothing will have been changed.
Where Sheehan should be running is against some idiot Republican, harry him from hill to dale and make mock of him from every angle possible, from the war to the economy to health care. She wouldn't win in any of those districts either, but that effort would be at least noble and draw sharp contrasts and perhaps inflict damage on Republican chances nationally instead wasting time at best or at worst helping Republicans by doing slight harm to the Democrats. Insurgency needs to be focused on the vilest enemy first, not on someone with whom you disagree 10% of the time.
The election in 2010 will be a huge opportunity for progressives, since we all agree that an Obama (or for that matter a Clinton) administration will do little to advance progressive causes. We will have all of the same societal problems we have now, but they will be worse; the arguments in favor of adopting progressive goals, and thus progressive candidates, will be starker and easier to present and the audience will be more receptive. Maybe by then we will have become more clever as well.
Step 1. 2008: Drive the Republicans from office.
Step 2. 2009: Reformulate progressive goals so they appeal to the masses.
Step 3. 2010: Elect more progressives to the House, the Senate, and to state and local offices.
Step 4. I'm working on it.
BIO is talking good sense,
not that I necessarily agree with all of it. More talk like this would help me a lot in thinking things through!
I've been waiting for you to say more about how you think the "left" has dropped the ball on spreading our goals to the electorate at large, and what's to be done about it. I'd like (if possible, hah) to avoid a fight over the interest-groups issue, which I've seen hashed out fruitlessly many times. I'd rather think about this:
we have allowed the Right to win the debate on values and the worthiness of goals in large part because they appeal to emotions while we stubbornly insist on an approach from reason alone.
As you point out, Obama's campaign has tried to craft an emotional appeal that can be used to sell ... damn, well, something to the electorate. When I first started paying a little attention, I was very heartened by this because I thought the something was enough lefty policy to bring me on board. But enough of that. It's important, in my opinion, to look past the disappointment with how that is going and ask ourselves if "we" (whoever we are) can contribute to playing the game in a way that sells policy that we believe in. And can we do this without betraying what we believe in, i.e., the truth?
(My little forays into Aetna-bashing are in part an attempt to explore this. But I think it takes talents like Lambert's and others to really hit people in their feelings and snag their attention in an ongoing way. That's why political campaigns spend millions. You need talent, and talent is rare.)
Policy not party!
Emocrat?
Not, I take it, a typo?
Because those squishy fixes make my skin crawl too. That's a strong emotion, and we're not the only ones who share it.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Emocrat!
Excellent. I missed that.
Yeah, I have the creepy crawlies pretty bad with all that stuff too. Notice I said the Obama campaign was "trying". They've succeeded with some, but it's unclear that the message will resonate with enough voters.
Policy not party!
Emocrat
Serendipity. It was indeed a typo, one I didn’t notice and the spellchecker for some reason didn’t catch.
Very dispiriting when the cheapo MSWord spell check program is the one with a better creative sense….
He's talkin sense, Merle
Random remarks:
1. Agreed on the emotion thing. And I connect it (inevitably) to PB 2.0. One thing we were good at is cultivating the emotions of disgust and fear of Republicans. So it can be done. Although possibly different emotions, or a different target. Whatever, it needs to be on the agenda.
2. Your "local" headline doesn't agree, so far as I can tell, with the body of the post, except insofar as the electoral politics are local. But the issues should be local as well.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Random sense
Sorry, got lost in my own
bullshitbrilliance, failed to reconnect the thought-thread.Ultimately, in a functioning democracy, political power has to originate at the local level and aggregate upward into movements. We tend to see the top-most manifestations, the big names on the news, and once a heirarchy is established those at the top try to control what happens down in the support structure to preserve their power; all established parties become conservative and increasingly authoritarian. Eventually, though, changes will come - and they will be driven by local needs. Writing to your existing congressperson may not be sufficient to get the changes we need.
What I'm suggesting is that progressives must reinterpret their goals and explain them within the context of program and policy proposals that appeal to a broad swath of the working class, and that in order for the new interpretations to be successful they will have to be based upon and incorporate real-world needs and concerns that operate on the local level.
Thus the quicky example of education, an improvement in which should be equally appealing to bitter poor whites in Appalachia and angry poor blacks in big-city ghettos; with the right framing, the same program for improving American education should speak effectively to both groups, even though the Republicans have managed to drive a wedge between them on the basis of racial bigotry.
The same is true of job security, a living wage, health care, not dying in the coming Mass Extinction Event, etc etc. All of the big picture progressive goals are also interpretable as local action goals and apply to local needs for the mass of American middle and lower economic classes, if we can just find the right way to explain them. The power of the movement then will start at the local level with elections to state offices and House seats, eventually driving senatorial and presidential choices.
Think Global, Act Local - to steal from the eco movement - is another way of phrasing it.
but with gerrymandering,
it's either a Blue Dog who always votes like a Republican or an actual Republican--those Blue Dogs aren't any better at all, and need to be pushed or scared into voting better--on healthcare and some things if not everything.
Which is why it is vital now
to elect as many Democrats as possible to as many offices as possible, as a setup for the 2010 elections when we need Democrats to dominate as many governorships and state houses as possible and when we need to push as many progressives into office as possible.
The Democrats, with a larger progressive contingent, will then control the gerrymandering after the next census and naturally manipulate the district outlines to maximize their control over power. In general, on average, this will tend to marginalize reactionaries and amplify the power of progressives and persuadable centrists.
Try focusing on solutions for tomorrow instead of bemoaning how awful things are today. Unless, of course, perpetuating today's misery is your objective.
Not sure Blue Dogs not any better at all.
I'm not contradicting you; I'm just not sure about this.
For instance, I'm thinking of the town hall meeting I went to recently where the very centrist Democrat Jason Altmire shared the stage with the Republican Tim Murphy (both are local congresscritters). Altmire has provoked the anger of us health care people by reneging on his promise to support H.R.676, and boasted that he votes with the Republicans about half the time. He is no favorite of mine, in other words, and I'd love to replace him with a real fighting Democrat. (BTW as far as I can tell he's not part of the Blue Dog caucus, but this is the only centrist Dem I've had any contact with.)
But given a choice between Altmire and Murphy (which we're not, they're in neighboring districts), I have to say that Altmire wins hands down if I'm thinking about his likely voting pattern given his voting record, especially on torture and the use of mercenaries, as well as his self-presentation, his knowledge of the issues, and his willingness to try to sell hard truth about oil to a hostile crowd.
Life is complicated. Electoral strategies are hard.
I totally agree that these people need to be "pushed or scared"! We have to go out into RL and do it.
Policy not party!
in the House at least, many if not most
Districts have already been gerrymandered to be safe Dem or safe Republican, so they're already amenable to more liberal Dems.
I see one giant problem as the fact that more liberal Dems don't get any help from DC Dems already in office, Schumer, Emanual or the DNC, so independent orgs like ActBlue and Feingold's group become even more essential. And the media tends to follow the DC Dems lead.
Look at how they actively worked against Lamont and Hackett and so so many others.
"...they actively worked against
Lamont and Hackett and so so many others."...key evidence of their real views?
Bring me solutions, not another recitation of existing problems
There are many, many giant problems. We all know that. We all know what they are. Repeating them endlessly is of no particular value.
In 2010 there will be a census, and then the house districts will be rederawn. Between now and November 2010 progressives need to get as much power as possible into Democratic hands and get as many progressives as possible into House seats and state legislature seats; some governors would also be nice.
The redistricting will determine the political status quo for another decade, and for progressives to advance more political candidates we need the Democrats to concentrate Republican votes into the fewest possible districts.
They will help us, if they have the power, by increasing the number of safe Democratic seats into which progressives can eventually be shoehorned because no Republican can mount a challenge. They will also try to manipulate as many currently safe Republican districts into tossups, where if we are only clever we may be also able to facilitate electing not conservative Democrats but centerists.
None of that happens under a Republican regime, in fact just the opposite. The first step to better Democrats - to progressive Democrats - is more Democrats.
There is no real benefit to throwing up one complaint after another about how bad things are. We all get it. Go figure out some solutions, then come back and write about those.
That's the second best argument I've heard
The two best arguments for "more Democrats" I've heard are:
1. Control over the civil service and
2. Control over redistricting
Not that anybody's making them except on the margins, like here. They're both powerful arguments. Even if they aren't faithy hopey.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Determine real positions of candidates
Just because these days someone will let you put a D after your name when you're running...
Ask lots of questions and ask to see the development of, and the research depended on, for ALL key policy ideas BEFORE they can run. (Hopefully as a party but if not as a voter...if a lack is made too obvious before the deadline, no one will want the proposed candidate. Well, okay, except for Howard, Donna, John, Tom and the entire MSM...) The candidates who have real substance will help with this. Someone here just retired for now from politics but called up a wonderfully qualified candidate to replace him--who I am sure would not have been among the choices had she not been recruited. At least one of the other proposed candidates was completely without experience and didn't include ANY policy positions in the "vote-for-me" letter sent out. It's a hope-change year!
P.S. Don't accept smoke, mirrors or ponies.