Discuss.

I guess the best defense is a good offense, but the intro about Hillary being above all this (from a guy who has spent the last six months saying she’d do anything to win) made him sound like a concern troll to me.

As for trying to discredit your opponent by claiming they’re playing politics, it seems like I’ve heard that a lot in recent years. Now, if I could only remember where?

This may help him with the Village, but my boyfriend’s immediate reaction was “six shooters in a duck blind?” So perhaps Obama’s attack on HIllary over guns won’t close the cultural gap quite like he hoped. And you have to love a guy whose defense to being called an elitist, out-of-touch liberal Democrat is to call the other Democrat one, too. Well, that’ll certainly help in November. Damage contained, Barack. Good job.

This may help him with the Village, but my boyfriend’s immediate reaction was “six shooters in a duck blind?”

I had the same reaction. That’s going to be as convincing to blue collar voters as throwing gutterballs.

I don’t think he cares about blue collar workers. This is all a big fuck you to them. He figures they have no place to go.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

This is just a referendum on the Clinton trade policies of the ’90s. If you believe that the the U.S. has been hemmoraging our manufacturing base for years, even during the relative prosperity of the ’90s, then Obama’s words will resonate and Hillary’s association with Mark Penn, and Bill signing NAFTA and pushing for China’s entry into WTO will irritate.

But if you believe the Clintons were good for the American blue collar worker and labor unions then, like Lambert, you will see Obama as a big phony.

I don’t trust Obama on labor issues, but it is because of real actions (or inactions) such as the Maytag plant closing, not because you can twist this latest statement into something that he didn’t mean.

Obama’s controversial comments plainly stereotyped Pennsylvania voters. How that gets to be a referendum on the strong economy of the Bill Clinton years I can’t figure.

Also, I’m still waiting for those who are in a lather about fellow Dems “destroying the party” to speak out against the strategy of badmouthing the all-too-short eight-year oasis from the big bad voodoo-economic daddies.

The real point of space’s comment isn’t the oh-so-reasonable wind up, but the countrary-to-fact pitch at the end:

don’t trust Obama on labor issues, but it is because of real actions (or inactions) such as the Maytag plant closing, not because you can twist this latest statement into something that he didn’t mean.

Let me quote, once again, the lady from FL:

He said what he said…

He said bitter people cling to God and guns, and don’t like people that [don’t] look like them.

That is what he said, and he said it in an environment where he was seeking money, and he meant what he said when he said it and I do not accept his apology or his explanation.

Exactly. Nice try, though.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

I watched last night and what bothered me most was Obama’s pandering to the right wing on HIV prevention. First off he advocates abstinence education to prevent HIV. I spent several years working towards the prevention of HIV infection, including at the national AIDS hotline, and there is not a single person out there who does not preface a discussion on prevention without saying, “the only way to be 100% sure that you do not become infected is to not have sex”. That sentence IS abstinence education, there is nothing else to say. “abstinence education” is just another invention by the right to block real prevention education (condom use), and to promote their own radical sexual agenda. and it appears that Obama is all for it.

to compound this horrible pandering, obama then went on to say that he prefers to combine abstinence ed with the use of “contraception”. Anyone who knows anything about HIV or STD’s knows that contraception and prevention methods are two VERY different things. Contraception techniques do not always guard agains HIV/STD’s. In fact for prevention educators it is one of the biggest misconceptions that leads to infection. the rhythm method and withdrawal, or even the pill, are methods of contraception but do not prevent STD’s, including HIV . Once again Obama proves that he knows very little about the subject of HIV/AIDS, and that what matters to him is that he knows how to keep the religious nuts mollified.

As a gay man who grew up during the worst part of the AIDS epidemic in the 80’s and 90’s, this sort of misguided approach to HIV/AIDS prevention, along with his quite numerous homophobic actions/words make him an unacceptable candidate for me, and one would think, anyone in the gay community

Abstinence-only kills: http://www.correntewire.com/will_constan…

sorry to add on, here is his quote from the transcript:

“OBAMA: Michelle and I, when we were traveling there, took an AIDS test before thousands of people to encourage the importance of them getting clear on what their status was and hopefully reducing infections.

And, by the way, this is an area where — this doesn’t happen very often, so everybody should take note — where I compliment George Bush. I actually think that…

(APPLAUSE)

I actually think that the PEPFAR program is one of the success stories of this administration. We’ve seen a drastic increase in funding. And terrific work is being done between the CDC, the NIH, local AIDS organizations, NGOs.

My view is, is that we should use whatever the best approaches are, the scientifically sound approaches are, to reduce this devastating disease all across the world.

And part of that, I think, should be a strong education component and I think abstinence education is important. I also think that contraception is important; I also think that treatment is important; I also think that we have to do more to make antiviral drugs available to people who are in extreme poverty.”

and if you really want to know about PEPFAR, here’s a good link:

http://www.pepfarwatch.org/index.php?opt…

There is a difference between Democrats and Republicans on working class issues, including the issue of labor unions.

Was Clinton able to do anything about Taft/Hartley, well no, not after the 1994 mid-terms. And before anyone pipes up with the faux-history talking point that Clinton was responsible for the Democratic loss of both houses of congress, that is nonsense. In fact, the Democratic congress had begun to rot, especially in the House, where Dems had been in control for forty years and become complacent and out of touch. Individual Senators undermined Clinton and Gore’s most liberal and progressive policies.

Next time anyone tells you that Clinton/Gore did nothing about the environment, remind them that Clinton’s economic package included the first ever carbon tax on oil and gas, the money to be used to make us less dependent on MIddle Eastern oil and to begin the effort to find renewable energy sources. That would have been in 1993. The idea became a non-starter when Democrats like David Boren of Oklahoma, and Breaux of Louisiana, for instance, immediately announced their opposition - both conservative DLC Democrats. It didn’t matter that Clinton was a member of the DLC, they didn’t hesitate to undermine the first Democratic President in 12 years.

Clinton made pro-labor appointments to the NLRB, but there was no way that he was going to get pro-labor organizing legislation through a Republican congress.

But there is a pervasive split in the Democratic Party, about labor unions, and I mean among grassroots Democrats, and sad to say, there are lots of fairly liberal middle-class Dems who just don’t get labor unions, something that used to show up quite a bit in comment threads at Eschaton, whenever Atrios would say anything positive about unions.

“…they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”
…
“First of all, scripture talks about clinging to what’s good… what I was saying is that when economic hardship hits in these communities, what people have is, they’ve got family, they’ve got their faith, they’ve got the traditions that have been passed onto them from generation to generation. Those aren’t bad things. That’s what they have left.”

This was the first and the most critical defamation campaign of the VRWC, to destroy the unions. Heaven knows there was corruption but I’ll take a Jimmy Hoffa over any corporatist union-buster, any day. Take away the right to effectively organize and the right to collaboratively strike, and workers are reduced to slaves who have to pay for their own food and housing.

I still have my Teamster’s card with honorable suspension stamp and my IWW card, a membership I had to give up when I started using a pen instead of my bare hands to make a living, just in case. If a political party wanted to do one something for the good of the American people, it would be to revitalize the union movement. Start by mandating that everything the government buys has to wear a union bug.

WotW, Unite!

“gay panic” moment from him in the past—he used it specifically in that weird straight boy way when they’re scared people will automatically associate AIDS with Gay.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lane-hudso…

“…When asked about the disproportionately high rate of HIV/AIDS in young Black Americans, Senator Obama responded in a meaningful way that I hoped would help move this important issue into the public discourse of the African American community.

However, moments later, he reverted back to schoolyard ways and had a complete frat boy moment wherein he felt it necessary to reaffirm his heterosexuality. Senator Biden had just encouraged people to be tested for HIV by giving himself and Senator Obama as examples of public officials who had done so publicly.

Obama couldn’t leave well enough alone:

Tavis, Tavis, Tavis, I just got to make clear — I got tested with Michelle. (Laughter, applause.) When we were in Kenya in Africa. So I don’t want any confusion here about what’s going on. (Applause continues.)

With one comment, he erased the possibility that he would start a meaningful conversation in the Black community about this serious issue. This seems to reveal not only some level of homophobia, but also a level of immaturity which causes me to question Obama’s ability to go all the way in this campaign. …”

Seeing a pattern? It’s like, pretty soon there won’t be anyone left to unite!

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

and a giant win in indiana too. He’s totally dropped the uplifting bull, and without that, what has he got? not policies—not concrete bread-and-butter stuff, not unity, not even faith anymore…

I really really wanna see state polls where he’s won on whether there’s buyer’s remorse—Iowa and the Midwest/rustbelt especially.