Black People Debating Obama

warning: heavy snark ahead

What a crazy idea, eh? Go ahead and take a gander, it won’t hurt! Here, I’ll give you a warm up:

GLEN FORD: Well, Dr. Dyson doesn’t seem to know what a rightwing interest is. An expanded US military, 100,000 new troops, isn’t a rightwing interest? An expanded military budget that sucks up all of the money for healthcare, for revitalization of the cities, for a rebuilding of America’s infrastructure, for all the projects that black folks hold dear, all of which would go down the tubes, will be postponed indefinitely with the kind of expanded military budget that clearly follows from Barack Obama’s proposal for 100,000 new troops. And so, it is not in black folks’ interest. It’s really not in anyone’s interest, of course. But it is diametrically opposed to the historic black political consensus on domestic development to be proposing expanded military activities and budgets for the United States.

AMY GOODMAN: We only have thirty seconds. Michael Eric Dyson, your response?

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON: Well, listen here. I think that that is a legitimate comment to be made in terms of the critique of a potential Barack Obama presidency. Let’s see it get here first. I think that a Barack Obama presidency at least holds out the possibility of engaging these forms of critique, engaging the form of the black political consensus about which Mr. Ford has spoken, but also to deal with the fact that we have to be bifocal. The presidency-the people who are making critiques of the system, if he’s part of the system, he will be critiqued legitimately. And African American people will be able to enjoy the victory of the grassroots being able to speak, while at the same time being part of a political process that includes us in a very serious way. I think a Barack Obama presidency-

AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to have to leave it there, but this is part one of this debate. Professor Dyson, thanks for joining us,

There’s lots more. See, we really don’t all think alike! Wow!

…hopefully you know that these brothers are just as Serious as any Villager and worthy of your attention.

Michael Eric Dyson, Professor at Georgetown University, where he teaches Theology, English and African American Studies. He is the author of 14 books including “Debating Race,“ “Come Hell or High Water” and “Is Bill Cosby Right.” He has been named by “Ebony” as one of the 100 Most Influential African Americans.

Glen Ford, Veteran journalist and Executive Editor of Black Agenda Report.com, a weekly journal of African American political thought and action.

but just in case…

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Could we just ask the spokesman for the black people?

Wouldn’t that be a lot simpler?

[Hey! Ouch!]

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

i thought you didn't know who Chuck D was, lb?

rimshot, laughter.

What is it with the “Fairy Tale” issue?

And the LBJ/MLK huffiness? Is this real, or is this a way of moving openly away from Hillary and towards Obama under cover of her and Bill being racist?

Bill’s use of fairy tale was clearly about Obama policy claims, not about his candidacy itself; he has gone out of his way to praise Obama’s being in the race. Maybe I have missed some street slang but I do not see why fairy tale is somehow a particular affront.

The LBJ/MLK statement was awkward but not incorrect in it’s totality; political activism and political governance are not the same, and both are needed to achieve most objectives. (Nancy Pelosi got in trouble for making the same point, and still gets chided by some people for simply stating a fact.)

Can somebody hip explain what the fussing with the Clintons is actually about?

I missed this: "100,000 new troops"?

Huh? What’s he planning to use them for?

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

100000

quote i found

Q. So if you become president in January 2009, you’d be inheriting a situation where it seems there would be in excess of 100,000 troops in Iraq or somewhere around that number – between 10 to 12 combat brigades – or some reduced level of violence, but still significant sectarian tensions, what would be the first step you would take as president?

A. My first step would be to call in the joint chiefs of staff, the military commanders who are on the ground and most familiar with the situation there. I’m assuming that Petraeus might still be our lead in shaping our activities there and assign a new mission, which his that we’re going to begin a phased redeployment. It is going to be responsible. It is going to be taking pace at a … It will be conducted at a pace that will ensure the safety of our troops that will give us time to fill the diplomatic void that I believe the president has left, in both Iraq and in the region. It will provide us the time to engage in the humanitarian activities that are going to be necessary because the humanitarian crisis that is projected for withdrawal has actually already occurred.

We’ve already gotten huge numbers of internally displaced Iraqis as well as Iraqis in other countries, so my job is to say to them, my strategic goal is to get us out of the business of street patrols and counter insurgency. We are not going to be engaging in combat activities day-to-day in Iraq. How do we do that responsibly and safely for our troops and how do we marry that and how do we couple that with the kinds of strong efforts and humanitarian efforts that are going to be required to stabilize the country.

that’s from his NYT interview.

ah, here it is:

“First, we need to increase our investment in national defense. This means adding at least 100,000 troops and making a long-overdue investment in equipment, armament, weapons systems, and strategic defense. The need to support our troops is repeated like a mantra in Washington. Yet little has been said about the commitment of resources needed to make this more than an empty phrase.

from a piece in foreign affairs.

i can’t really disagree with glen. we most certainly don’t need a bigger military. although black folks will be among those who benefit from it, i’d rather see those same folks with jobs in their neighborhoods, rather than enlisting in the military b/c they have no other real options. so that’s a strike against him (obama).

Somehow, adding 100,000 troops wasn't my picture of Obama...

If I wasn’t such a big believer in ponies, I’d almost say that’s a Village dogwhistle that cancels out the Iraq vote. Just like Social Security.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

more not to like

from the same interview:

And we purchased only a small fraction of the equipment needed to maintain our strength, living off the assets that had been purchased in prior decades. The equipment and armament gap continues to this day. Even as we have increased defense spending to meet the challenges in Iraq and Afghanistan, our budgets for procurement and modernization have lagged behind. This is a troubling scenario for the future, and it puts our country and our troops — present and future — at risk, as we wring the life out of old and inadequate equipment.

The Bush administration has proposed an increase in defense spending for next year. This is an important first step, but we are going to need at least an additional $30-$40 billion annually over the next several years to modernize our military, fill gaps in troop levels, ease the strain on our National Guard and Reserves, and support our wounded soldiers.

if i believe “30-40 billion” would actually be spent on vets and servicemembers i could support that. but you and i both know that it’ll be 100m or so to replace the mold encrusted, rotting walls of a VA hospital, and the rest down the maw of halliburton and other no-bid contractors who provide us with nothing but over-cost, not needed military penis-extenders hardware that is more or less just pork for some red state.

zzzzt, obama. try again.

here’s an idea: 30-40 billion annually on health care for needy americans! now there’s a crazy idea!

Well, it is a Village dogwhistle

But that’s the problem, isn’t it?

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Oopsie

Last I checked, Patrick Fitzgerald was from Chicago and had a lot of credibility. Old news, I’m sure, but at this point I’m totally counter-suggestible.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

well, that's one thing i can forgive obama for,

to be honest. no one is a successful chicago politician and at the same time remains “clean.”

the other stuff, pandering to fundies and homophobes and adding troops to the military, bothers me much more, truth be told.

but yes, that story has been around for awhile, and i knew indictments were coming. expect the republicans to play this up bigtime if he’s the nom. “corrupt chicago vote fraud illegal aliens mob ties” blah blah. and some of it will be true.

Reminds me of Geraldine Ferraro

The husband was in New York real estate. Extrapolate from there.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Black people do want investment in the millitary

Bill Clinton drastically reduced the millitary during his 2 terms in office. That’s is why we are stretched so thin now. We don’t have enough troops.

I don’t support the war. But our country needs to always be prepared to fight on multiple fronts should we get “jumped”. I know that we have nukes but nuclear is really not an option. As an analogy, the police will use that taser a lot more than they will use deadly force (guns).

Anyway, somebody made a point that increasing the army is somehow not in-line with black issues.

HUH?

I know a number of black entrepreneurs that do business with the federal government / department of defense that would beg to differ. They tend to have a good number of black employees that would beg to differ also.

Comments like that make it sound like black people monolithically support hand-out programs.

It’s just not true.

What's more of a "handout" than military "programs"?

Cheeze und rice, spending on the military—particularly military “programs” as you are careful to specify, rather than actual human members of the military forces and veterans thereof—is the biggest fucking waste of money, energy, brainpower and effort in recorded history.

No we do not need a bigger military for that matter. This nation spent the largest part of its history—and demonstrably the best, lasting from the founding up till the end of World War II, without any standing military to speak of. We went into the Civil War with a total military of 16000 officers and men, the vast majority out guarding the Western frontiers from Native “incursions.”

Managed to gear up for that one in pretty short order didn’t we? And afterwards there was this thing called “demobilization” and the soldiers took off their soldier-suits and went the hell home. Next time somebody wanted to have a war they had to cook up a new causus belli (“Remember the Maine!”) and fire up a new war fervor and sign up a new army. Same thing when WWI came along.

Drafts were used primarily to provide some order to those who were intent on enlisting anyway. Most recruitment was done via social pressure or else bounties (bribes) of some sort.

We did two damn-fool things after WWII: decided that “there were so many threats” that we needed a massive, permanent military force, and felt the obviously imperialistic intent of this needed to be disguised so changed the name of the Department of War to the “Department of Defense.”

Since these two changes were made you might notice something: we haven’t won a (real) war since. Such nonsense as assaults on Panama and Grenada are not worth classifying as such. Korea? Truce. Vietnam? Flat loss. Iraq? Vietnam on meth.

(My preference would be to disband 90 percent of the military and change the name back to Dept. of War. Standing armies are a threat to freedom, ours most of all, as well as a hideous waste of resources and lives.)

Military spending is welfare of the worst, most shameful kind. Those who deplore handouts should certainly be repulsed by it.

Lostone is indeed lost, and deceitful

America’s military capabilities have been severely reduced because of Republican policies. Troop strength reductions and base closures were initiated and embedded into law under Ronald Reagan and GHW Bush. The reductions engineered by Republicans were fixed in statutory law and could not be altered without new legislation. Bill Clinton was forced to follow the Republican-crafted laws and had no voice in the matter, particularly after the Republican Party took control of congress in 1994. Full history is here, synopsis is here:

”P.L. 100-526, enacted October 24, 1988. The statute provided for a bipartisan commission, appointed by the Secretary of Defense, to make recommendations to Congress on closures and realignments to be voted down or accepted as a whole. The process was successfully implemented, but produced complaints of partisanship in selecting bases for closure. P.L. 101-510, enacted November 5, 1990, provided new authority for additional base closure”

The destruction of American military capability has been accelerated under yet another Republican administration, George Bush the Younger. From the January 13, 2008 Marine Corps Times:

The Army

“We are consumed with meeting the demands of the current fight and unable to provide ready forces as rapidly as necessary for other contingencies,” Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Nov. 15.
The Congressional Budget Office reported in 2006 that Army readiness rates had declined to the lowest levels since the end of the Vietnam War, with roughly half of all Army units, active and reserve, at the lowest readiness ratings for currently available units. Casey told the Senate committee that training and readiness levels for nondeployed units have “actually stayed about the same since last summer — and it’s not good.”

The Marines

“While the readiness of deployed units remains high, we have experienced a decrease in the readiness of some nondeployed units,” Gen. Robert Magnus, assistant commandant of the Marine Corps, told Ortiz’s subcommittee March 13.
The Corps has “a limited ability to provide trained forces to project power in support of other contingencies,” Magnus said.

The Air Force

Air Force operational readiness rates are 17 percent below the level before Sept. 11, 2001 — only 53 percent of Air Force units, many using aging aircraft that require more frequent repairs, were considered “green,” or fully mission-capable, as of March, according to service data.

Special Operations

Most spec-ops specialties are chronically underfilled, according to a June CNAS report by Schultz and Michèle Flournoy, “Shaping Ground Forces for the Future.”
They also note that 85 percent of all deployed Army Special Forces troops are working in the U.S. Central Command area of operations, leaving few available for other missions.

Reserves and National Guard

National Guard and reserve forces also are getting a sustained workout that is causing major strains on what were once known as “weekend warriors.”
As Casey put it: “Our reserve components are performing an operational role for which they were neither originally designed nor resourced.”

Blaming Bill Clinton for this is either ignorant or deceitful. The responsibility for degrading American military capability rests with Republicans. Why do Republicans hate America?

Whatever forces we have, need to function

What size the standing military should be is a worthwhile debate, and I have no doubt that we could do better with less. Take the hammer away from a small boy child and there will be less random pounding going on.

That said, whatever capability we staff needs to be functional - otherwise it is a complete waste of money.

Neither black people nor any citizens benefit from wasted money, and most military money is wasted. Education and health care increase productivity, and therein lies our real national security.

Here's what a black man said about the state of our military

Colin Powell speaking before the Surge: “the active Army is about broken.”

I suppose one could say that means we should spend more on the military, especially on conning underprivileged young people into being playthings in the Bush family’s favorite pastime. Or it might mean that we should, to coin a phrase, learn how to keep our powder dry. And have more butter and fewer guns.

One measure to take at once is clawback privatization

As close to 100% as we can make it.

No more Blackwaters, no more Halliburtons. They are the incarnation of Smedley Butler-esque war as a racket.

Next, get rid of as many mult-billion boondoggles as possible. We could start with every one located primarily in the rump Republican states of the Old South.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Bob Johnson

I wonder if Bob Johnson recent apology was in an effort to keep BL People in the seats at the Bobcat games.