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Book Discussion: ECONNED: How Unenlightened Self Interest Undermined Democracy and Corrupted Capitalism

BDBlue's picture

[Welcome, Ms. Smith -- lambert]

As I mentioned to lambert and Ms. Smith, when I first proposed this discussion I knew two things: 1) that I wanted to encourage as many people as possible to read the book and 2) that I'd want to discuss the book with others. I had no idea the author herself might stop by. No pressure.

The book is definitely worth reading and should be as widely read as possible because, as Ms. Smith notes in the book, "[t]he economy is far too important to all of us to leave to experts" especially when those experts' opinions are built on faulty assumptions and twisted for ideological reasons. And I do have lots of things I'm interested in discussing and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I don't want to hijack the discussion or direct where it goes, but I will throw a few thoughts out there to try to get us started.

First, I'll start with where the book starts and where it ends because I think there are two incredibly key points that are the crux of everything else in the book. One of these CMike already noted and that's, from page 6,

We need to implement economic policies that treat finance as the handmaiden of commerce, not its master.

And from page 308,

Only when we, the public, are able to call the underlying realities by their proper names - extortion, capture, looting, propaganda - can we begin to root them out.

We're not going to get to the first unless and until we can see reality and speak about it truthfully. It's quite clear from the capture of all three branches of our government as well as our media, that the public is on its own to a large extent when it comes to efforts aimed at seeing our reality clearly. We're not going to get help from our elites.

Which brings me to another issue raised by the book, the great extent many of our elites behave as sociopaths (if not outright psychopaths). From busting Mexican banks like pinatas to screwing over every investor they can get away with, there never seems to be any thought or empathy for the effect their economic activity has on others, not even ostensible clients.

The underlying sickness probably has many causes and the book highlights one of the main ones - the underlying economic philosophy of "free markets" that focuses on individuals, when we are social creatures even in the markets we create, and the increasing use of economic models, which optimize output, as the framework for political and social policy. When, of course, people are more than their outputs and a healthy society recognizes that. When you only measure people by their economic output, you skew their own views of themselves, which is how the Masters of the Universe come to believe they are worth every penny of their eight or nine figure salaries and fail to recognize they are essentially nothing more than welfare recipients. And, of course, if you're really that special, there's no need to concern yourself with the fate of the "losers".

One of the added problems in terms of propaganda that the book identifies is how anyone who uses the phrase "free markets" to mean something more moderate is seen as endorsing the most radical version of libertarian ideology. I would argue that we've seen with Obama that the opposite is also true. Some neoliberals use people's willingness to assume that when they use the "free market" language they mean the more moderate view to hide the fact that they, instead, mean the more radical one.

So I think that's one of my first issues - how do we propagate reality and take back our country from sociopaths (especially with the economic knife to our throat, as they continually threaten to tank the economy) or, hell, even identify the sociopaths in the first place before we put them in positions of incredible power?

Reading the early part of the book with the takedown of neoclassical economic theory reminded me of the discussion of the gas tax during the 2008 campaign*. During the campaign, Clinton proposed suspending the gas tax on consumers and raising the revenue from oil companies. Obama countered with a signed statement from, IIRC, 200 economists that said the proposal wouldn't work. This latter narrative seemed to carry the day despite the fact that the same proposal had been done in Illinois and, in fact, had passed savings onto consumers.** That result led lambert to say "It works in practice, but does it work in theory."*** While originally taken from another context, this statement seems to nicely summarize modern economics, which is more interested in theory and reaching some fantasy perfect world of equilibrium than actually improving our real world. And theory is used to shut down policy ideas or objections to proposed policies that are much larger and of a lot more consequence than some gas tax holiday. Like free trade, for example. Never mind your little prosaic concerns about how you're going to earn a living once your company can pay someone in a developing country 1/10th what they pay you, our models show free trade is good for the economy (of course, that doesn't mean it's good for most people in the economy). To make matters worse, we're seeing the faulty ideas of economics now used to support other neoliberal policies such as Obama's education policy. There's no empirical evidence that "free markets" - using a mix of charter and public schools - actually improves public education, but that's what they're doing and selling it with the same buzz words "free market" that they use to sell every other neoliberal policy.

Again, I return to propaganda - how do we combat what's become an analytical pass, the use of the phrase "free market" as if that's always an inherent good (or even true, if there were really free markets, I would never be a customer of Verizon)?

Then there's the larger, systemic issue, which is cutting off our over-dependence on debt. When I read Ms. Smith's discussion of the need to increase the cost and lessen the availability of debt, I thought of Andrew Bacevich's interview with Bill Moyers where he tied our foreign policy problems to our need for access to credit. And that brought me back again to a post on naked capitalism about how tied in our policy makers are to the banks, in part, because wars require credit (I cannot seem to find the link this morning). So our foreign policy crisis is intimately tied to our domestic policy crisis.

I don't know how to reduce Americans' need for debt from the issue of stagnating wages. Debt essentially replaced wages to maintain an American middle class. Just as speculation via leverage on Wall Street replaced real economic activity and investment. We're basically debt slaves at this point and it's not just the "losers".

Which brings me back to "extortion, capture, looting, propaganda" and making finance the handmaiden of commerce, not its master. The book offers several excellent ideas on how to start moving in that direction in terms of Wall Street, but it seems to me that none of them are even seriously being considered by our elites or discussed in the media. How do we breakthrough the propaganda bubble and break the capture on our government to end the looting and extortion?

I don't know, but talking about it honestly is an important first step, which Ms. Smith has done in her excellent book.

So what parts of the book caught your attention (I've only scratched the surface) and how do we translate knowledge into a broader discussion within our society and, ultimately, action?

* This thread is NOT going to be used to re-litigate the primary or even this issue from the primary. I only used the example because it's how I got to the bigger issue - practice v. theory.

** Note the fascinating update where the author responds to readers, including apparently the criticism that he isn't an "economist".

*** lambert informs me that this quote is "from Adam Gopnik's Paris to the Moon. Gopnik puts it in the context of the (sadly, now useless) New Yorker's system of fact-checking -- the French simply didn't get the concept. But a theory checker, well... And so, Versailles is, duh, French! No wonder all the projection...."

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BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

and it didn't even cover the need for better regulatory and legal framework, the various methods of fleecing being used on Wall Street, or potential connections between this book and The Shock Doctrine.

As with so much writing, if I'd had more time it would've been shorter.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

she mentions that Keynesians had no response to Friedman's analysis of stagflation in the 1970s. So we have a crisis - stagflation - and Friedman has a ready analysis and solution to implement in the face of the crisis. The other side had nothing. That's what made me think of The Shock Doctrine. Along with the banks using the most recent crisis to dig deeper into the political system.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

alien4

However, it's not clear how to detach the parasite from the guy's head, given that it's sunk its tentacles clear into the brain, the body organs, etc.

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

I think that captures the spirit of the book well. Having said that, tackling propaganda is likely to be a tough slog. I've become attentive to how often economists and economic journalists use the expression "free markets" assuming it's motherhood and apple pie, of course, we all think markets are great, right? But free markets, particularly in policy debates, is often code for "markets with no rules" when well functioning markets DO have rules!

I think this takes a lot of chipping, both on the level of facts and use of language.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

Personally, I think "extortion, capture, looting, propaganda" makes an excellent chant, although the elites' minds would probably be able to focus more if the chanters are holding pitchforks and torches. Speaking of which, why aren't there people out there with pitchforks and torches? Is it because the looting is so convoluted people aren't sure who to be angry at or is it some sort of learned helplessness?

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

I recall how disappointed I was at the horrid turnout at Showdown in Chicago, maybe 2500 people. Of course, it was the winter, but there were quite a few community groups behind this effort.

Richard Kline, NC's resident polymath, has said his reading of history is that protests in America have long been working class affairs, the 1960s the big exception.

Now, I think you have a lot of people who are tired (physically), the workweek is really lone, and frankly afraid. Student debt, other debt, can't afford to lose a job, can't afford a black mark. What happens if you are on a video at a protest, or worse arrested in a society where tons of employers do background checks before hiring?

Moving money into smaller banks is one step. Another (suggested by a Congressman, but not publicly) is to stage runs on banks as a form of protest. You wouldn't want to take down a bank. but say to do it on a city or state level to demonstrate it can be done.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

I've always remembered an admiral's answer to the question"How will we know that the aircraft carrier is obsolete," which was "When it fails in war."

It seems to me that from the perspective of the banksters, what the rest of us are experiencing as a catastrophic failure is in fact, a roaring success. Surely we can agree that another crash is coming, and quite possibly a series of crashes, until we've fallen all the way to the bottom of the stairs, and the system is no longer sustainable? That would be "fails in war" for the financial system.

It doesn't really seem like protest is an adequate response to that evolving process. And since propaganda plays such a large part in the world as we know it, it would seem that protest would be very easily integrated into the propaganda. Look what happened to our political access bloggers! (There's also the argument that Versailles wishes for and encourages violence, since it's the only thing they understand. I'm sure that they couldn't be happier if some on "the left" responded to the teabaggers windowbreaking tit for tat, for example.)

Now, one could argue under the "worse is better" mindset that the reason people don't protest is that they still have something to lose, and that when we've fallen down a few more stairsteps that won't be the case anymore. That's a very painful state of mind to encourage.

I go back to this quote from De Tocqueville that I think is still true:

Americans of all ages, all stations of life, and all types of disposition are forever forming associations... In democratic countries knowledge of how to combine is the mother of all other forms of knowledge; on its progress depends that of all the others.

The "knowledge of how to combine" hasn't been lost, but it's being applied in seemingly non-political ways. It just seems to me that there's a space for quietism and withdrawal from all forms of engagement with the system, that if applied on a mass scale, would have greater effects than any protest could have. For instance, the best answer to the propaganda really is to turn off the teebee. One obvious campaign would be to turn off the teebees in airport lounges and waiting rooms, for example.

It seems to me, again, that happiness is the key. Can a life lived under the banksters bring happiness? Increasingly, no. This should be obvious to anybody who takes a moment to reflect. Well, what would? I'd say that enabling rent seeking behavior is one such thing. Rent from cable? Get rid of cable. Rent from an auto loan? Pay it off or get different transportation. Rent from commercial software? Go open source. And so forth. Ultimately, that would erode a great many bottom lines.

This is an incoherent non-rant, I agree!!

UPDATE Assume that another crash is coming; I'm also thinking, how to prepare for it. Growing food, sharing with the neighbors... That's political, yes? No?

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

for optimizing your life? Sounds pretty powerful and very political, however it's done. In fact, lambert, when I read the paragraph on page 109 after the break, I wrote in the margin "lambert - happiness is the point" because it's been your mantra for some time and I think that should be the underlying idea. Because it is a powerful - and empowering - idea, particularly with regard to one's standing vs. corporations.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

The paragraph I think you mean on 109:

One of the fundamental problems with economics is that it is difficult to parse out political consideratiosns from those that economists would like to see as "economic" [autistic?] which in this case means limited to technocratic concerns. However, that narrow a view is simply impossible. Economists love to twiddle with models to prove the existence of optima, but that begs the question of what is society trying to optimize? Most individuals have richer goals than simply making money and buying goodies. Yet the combination of the propensity of economists to focus on greater output as the main measure of success, plus their disproportionate influence on policy means that their worldview has, over time, framed the objectives of collective action.

As long as that action is mediated through the market (which is, oddly, or not, the goal of both legacy parties, see under HCR.)

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

... what the blogosphere does, and the econoblogs have done a great job of doing it -- in terms that its audience can understand.

Not so the blogs that cover "politics" (and should be covering "political economy"). I'm rather at a loss to see how to counter a positively Goebellsian level of propaganda. (I knew there was a lot wrong, but until I read your book, I didn't realize it was all wrong, all the way down to "free markets"* as taught in the universities who gave all of our functionaries their credentials).

I'm feeling a disconnect between the kind of scams written about in the book (I like the script in Appendix A), which I think you believe have been adapted to the meanest understanding, and which I can barely get my mind around. How do people think like that? And how to we convey to ordinary citizens that the people running the show do think like that? The deliberate complexification and obfuscation seem to be key, but people seem willing to put up with it, if it comes from authority.

I remember playing whack-a-mole on WMDs in the run up to Iraq. That was effortful, and at that time the political blogosphere was more effective. This story, however, makes WMDs look like... Fisher-Price toys. It's very hard to appreciate the scale of it.

NOTE What was it Ghandi said about Christianity? It would be nice if they tried it?

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

about all the efforts to sell markets was the turning of the judiciary. Of course, I knew about Easterbrook and Posner and all the rightwing appointees, but I had no idea there was an entire program set up aimed to turn the judiciary into a bunch of Friedmanites. That it wasn't just ad hoc appointments.

I'll give the bastards this, they're very thorough.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

Funding!

And if funding-raising is the ground we have to fight on -- a la the access bloggers -- then we lose, by definition. Yes? No?

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

The idea that economics is political has been airbrushed out. You have all these right-wingers suspicious of control by elites, yet the very ideas they spout come from an economics elite (and the right wing political types have also have a more intellectual policy arm than in the past). "Political economy" has come to have Marxist overtones, which means you don't say that in polite company.

In France, they've started to stress the autistic aspects of mainstream econ thinking, that might be a starter.

emilianoZ's picture
Submitted by emilianoZ on

I think Taleb wrote about that. I cant find it now.

letsgetitdone's picture
Submitted by letsgetitdone on

If the economists were to concern themselves wth dynamics they'd have to quickly get into consideration of non-economic variables that impact their favorite economic ones. If they didn't do that they wouldn't be able to make sense of the development of the economy over time. For years economists ignored technology, knowledge, politics, culture, and values, and they get away with it because of they deal with statics and not dynamics. Economists who have gone further like Kenneth Arrow (in later years) and Brian Arthur have found themselves wandering into Complex Adaptive Systems Theory and areas that are far away from classical economic models.

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

The hard part is also that the big financial firms, the JPM, Goldman, Barclays level players, control the global debt markets. By policy (well maybe more by neglect), we've shifted a lot of activity from traditional banks to financial markets (securitization). That concentrates power in their hands. So a lot of the TBTF programs are unrealistic. Now that the financial markets are so concentrated, I don't see any way back from here (the minimum costs of being in that business are so high you can't attract new entrants, and you can't realistically break up that particular business, the one that gives the banks so much power). So the only solution is to regulate that aspect of the business heavily, and even a lot of the aggressive reformers are not going in that direction.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

are part of that loaded gun to our heads though, aren't they (or did I misunderstand the extortion part)? If so, how do we unload that gun or at least un-cock it so that we can regulate them more heavily? Setting aside the issue of capture in terms of political contributions, I think there's also a real fear among politicians that the Masters of the Universe will smash the place up to avoid tighter controls.

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

I wish putting more activities on exchanges would work. But that isn't a viable idea. If you have something illiiquid (like a house, say), is putting it on an exchange going to change anything? No. The problem is that in illiquid markets, you really need market markers. And you need more end buyers and sellers to increase liquidity. Putting something on an exchange does not automagically create more end buyers and sellers.

But I do see going after credit default swaps as a big possible improvement. They are just a terrible product, no social value (the few legitimate uses come at too high a social cost). That would reduce connectedness.

For the rest, you need intrusive regulation. The crucial capital markets functions need to be regulated like utilities. The EU has more nerve, the are starting to take on Big Finance.

DCblogger's picture
Submitted by DCblogger on

if the business model is a fail, and we don't bust them up, then when they do ultimately fail, does that not make the fall out all the more worse?

a Russian friend of mine told me in 1989 that he was not worried that the West would bail out Gorbechev and keep communism running a few more years, that there wasn't enough money in the world to bail out the Soviet Union. Don't we have a similar situation with the Goldman Sachs et al?

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

You can take the mega-banks, like JPM and Citi and Deutsche and make them separate out their capital markets operations from everything else. But they are still effectively TBTF. That is what a lot of people miss.

These firms control the global debt markets. By some measures, the shadow banking system is at least as big as the conventional banking system. The shadow banking system (securitization, repos, credit default swaps) have become crucial to commerce. What got bailed out in the crisis was the CDS and the repo markets, not conventional banking.

And there isn't any ready way to break up those markets. We can strangle CDS, as I recommend, that would help. But pretending that a new Glass Steagall is the answer is naive. We rescued the investment banks last time, remember?

Submitted by jawbone on

We're in a real pickle.

The first I heard of credit default swaps was from Bernard at the now closed Moon of Alabama blog. He was very helpful in bringing the less econ educated along. I've been watching what's happened with a sense of helpless alarm. Our Dems, as well as Repubs, seem to be in thrall to the FI part of FIRE.

This may have been one of the first times I encountered the CDO concept. I think Collateral Debt Obligations are about the same thing. Bernard railed incessantly against the naked CDO/CDS. He thought they should be outlawed and declared null and void. I really miss his voice in the blogosphere.

Thank you for your time and responses today. Please keep your blog around, OK?

emilianoZ's picture
Submitted by emilianoZ on

In Chapter 2, you describe how economics borrowed notions from physics such as equilibrium. You seem to suggest that though those ideas do not work at all for finance they seem to apply to goods markets. Can you give us an example of that? What goods or commodities seem to be in equilibrium to you? How do you recognize a state of equilibrium for a market?

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

The analysis in economics is a static analysis. They just show markets can clear at a specific point in time.

As the engineers like to rant, static analysis is trivial, what counts is dynamics.

I wasn't able to go after that book (space and perhaps reader tolerance for the denser parts of the argument), but I'm not overwhelmed with the equilibrium assertion in goods markets either. I think you might argue a weaker form, that when goods markets get too far away from an equilibrium price (price is too high or too low), various forces step in to take advantage of the mispricing.

Submitted by gmanedit on

is Chapter Three of George Brockway's The End of Economic Man: Principles of Any Future Economics (reader reviews at http://www.amazon.com/End-Economic-Man-P...).

I haven't read your book yet (regular reader at your blog), but have read Brockway. Very accessible for someone like me who has trouble with numbers. Are you familiar with this book? (For all I know, it's in your bibliography.)

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

(besides breaking the Internet's architecture).

There's no way anybody other than the original author can fix them.

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

Not having read Brockway's book, I can't opine, but I'm not certain I buy that physics is value free either. Contrary to what laypeople are told, even scientific theories we take as "proven" are not proven to the degree we think they are.

Submitted by Lex on

We need to implement economic policies that treat finance as the handmaiden of commerce, not its master.

This raises a question that i've been asking a lot recently (i especially like to ask it of the free marketeers who never bother answering) and asked on another thread. Does the market serve as a means to raise capital for industry/commerce or does industry/commerce serve as a means for the market to extract capital?

I think that it's supposed to be the former but has become the latter (thanks, Jack Welch you SOB). I'm no economist, so maybe i'm dead wrong or asking the wrong question.

It does, however, relate to the point about propaganda. Reasoned truth will only defeat propaganda over a very long time line, and will often only emerge from the ashes when propaganda finally fails. So do "we" need to develop a counter-propaganda message?

Could slogans like "Make the market serve industry" be more effective than trying to explain that we are in fact dealing with a perversion of free markets or the phrase being a code word for something much more sinister?

I've tried an idea with one experimental subject a few times: i ceaselessly call him out for being an economic liberal/neo-liberal, which is true regardless of his self-description as "conservative". If it's the economy, stupid, then can the weaponized word "liberal" be used against the people who weaponized it?

Unfortunately, i haven't read the book yet.

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

You are right re the priorities increasingly being reversed. The point of capital markets is supposed to be MAINLY so companies can get funding. Then secondary trading (trading after the company sold its stocks or bonds) is necessary for investors (as in they need an exit for the paper they bought).

Now somehow the purpose of markets has become to promote/preserve the markets themselves, and to keep asset values rising. That was never supposed to be the aim of financial markets. One of the notions that the industry keeps pushing is that more liquidity is better. Really? Who does that idea serve? it's usually never proven or documentable, but is a way of financial people to stem regulation or push new complicated products of dubious value. For instance, credit default swaps are touted for promoting liquidity. Huh? They don't promote liquidity of bonds, which is where people raise money, they in fact probably detract from the liquidity of bonds (as in people will use CDS rather than bonds). And in a crisis CDS drain liquidity.

letsgetitdone's picture
Submitted by letsgetitdone on

Thanks BD Blue. This quote:

Only when we, the public, are able to call the underlying realities by their proper names - extortion, capture, looting, propaganda - can we begin to root them out.

A lot of people are calling for a change in our political vocabulary, saying that the left-right frame is not adequate to describe what is going on. I support that since the left-right frame has never been enough to describe the vaious factions in American politics ad what they believe. But certainly part of the vocabulary needed to describe reality is the old vocabulary Yves uses above. We shy away from that vocabulary, because of a desire not to appear moralistic, or shrill, or naive; but in doing so, we are losing the opportunity to tell the truth about what has been going on.

Submitted by jawbone on

especially the housing portion. Libs made the lenders offer all those subprime mortgages.

He seems to have recovered from his appearance before Congress where he admitted perhaps the Magic Hand of the Marketh had not cured all problems, that he'd thought bankers were rational actors and maybe they weren't all the time....

All is seems to take was a few more large bonuses to make all right with his world. And Repug and FOX talking points....

What can we do about this? People who think as he does?

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

Maybe the blaming the victim meme is the one to go after.

We had housing policy since the 1960s that favored home ownership.

We also had a subprime bubble in the 1990s that corrected itself with no systemic damage.

Greenspan airbrushes out that if you look at household debt v. GDP, it rose gradually in the 1980s, rose more rapidly in the 1990s, and starting in 1999, went on a moonshot. That ain't the result of subprime lending, folks.

People need to pull out charts and hammer on it. It was a consumer debt explosion across the board, not just mortgages, and it started well before the subprime mania.

And why was supbrime such a disaster? BECAUSE FOR EVERY $1 IN BBB SUBPRIME BONDS, THERE WERE $10 OF CREDIT DEFAULT SWAPS WRITTEN ON THOSE BONDS. And worse, the CDS (per my post on Michael Lewis' The Big Short) not only kept the subprime party going two years longer than it would have otherwise, it also drove demand for the very worst mortgages. The CDS were FAR more integral to how bad the subprime mess turned out to be than housing policy.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

... that it was the demand for debt (created by people who profited from writing it, and even from when the debts went bad!) that created a demand for the subprime mortgages, and not the other way round? This is in the book, but I'm sure I'm not explaining it precisely enough.

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

It takes five minutes even with people who are market savvy. No joke, a Wharton grad who is now a financial journalist and interested in that angle explained it to one of the subprime shorts (Kyle Bass) and the guy did a slap in the forehead.

The strategy I described in Ch. 9 required some actual cash bonds. The firm Magnetar and its imitators needed some BBB subprime bonds (note these are a tranche of a normal subprime bond and represent only 3% of total value) to created their CDOs. They needed insurance from monolines and monolines would not guarantee a pure synthetic CDO (one made only from credit default swaps).

Their program was pushing the pipeline to generate more supbrime loans...just to get that 3% risky slice.

And the use of the CDO enables BBB risk to be sold at AAA prices. CDS prices dictate the price of actual bond issues. So the Magnetar trade was ALSO keeping BBB subprime bonds artificially cheap (by dressing it up to look like something completely different) at the same time they were increasing demand for it.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

... so I wrote a long one." -- Pascal

Is this the sort of thing a drug dealer would do? I'm looking for simple, real world analogies, on the principle that at bottom, all cons have a similar and well understand architecture.

yves's picture
Submitted by yves on

I had wanted to debunk that Taibbi post, saying all cons are the same. It wasn't one of his best pieces.

In fact, it is dangerous because it suggests we can find the abuses easily. That in turn encourages only superficial investigation of the chicanery. We have to accept that what went on is not easily understood, it takes time and effort to unpack some of the destructive behaviors. I've spent over three years trying to understand CDOs better. It is simply not easy to get any decent information about them, most of the market G2 is tradecraft known only to insiders. I've gotten further down the curve ONLY by being able to debrief some market participants at length. And even then, I know only a couple of structures, ones that were particularly germane to the crisis.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

I didn't mean that all cons were the same con, I meant that there are known cons that reoccur through history (as in Ur (?)).

That said.... "tradecraft known only to insiders." Yikes! (And the word "tradecraft" reminds me of a LeCarre novel...)

Submitted by jawbone on

stick to reality. Blogs like yours make the world of economics much more comprehendable to us with no background in the area. Thnx.

Yves, commenter Stoat responded to my invitation to drop to chat with you here at Corrente with this:

stoat
yves smith is unfailingly smart, well-informed and comprehensible.

how do you beat that?
Today, 2:24:49 PM

danps's picture
Submitted by danps on

Hi Yves. Your site is one of my regular stops, and my first one for financial news. I excerpted your post on Lewis earlier today because it was just about the only one to take on the flattering light Lewis shines on his protagonists.

For whatever reason (and I could go on and on about it but I won't) there's a scary tendency for financial/economic reporting to get locked into a narrative very quickly. That in turn tends to marginalize anything that doesn't agree with the narrative, and in some cases (like the major players in the Deep Capture story) leads to outright ridicule/demonization of those who don't go along.

That's one of the main reasons I value Naked Capitalism so much - the writers there are much more likely to buck the prevailing take on things. Keep up the great work - I suspect you're being read by lots of folks like me who lurk but don't often comment.

emilianoZ's picture
Submitted by emilianoZ on

In Chapter 6, you talk about unsophisticated investors such as some school districts in Wisconsin who were fooled into buying CDOs. Do you think such investors have learned their lesson and will not buy products they do not understand again or are there indications to the contrary?

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