tho i think at this point it just comes down to personal preferences...be it on doublespeak, capitulation, experience, vision...HRC Inc. and The Obama Tide are both quite flawed. me, i'm so tired of the "battle" on this one, myself.

tho i still haven't heard anyone argue my mind around the iraq war vote. doubt it can be done.

aside from that, how much the O-man has to bend as he rises in the white power structure may be debatable, but i think it mostly is debatable by people who can relate in some way. its easy to say that's bull...but a little too easy for those who dont know what it means experientially. not saying there are two choices. i never boiled it down to a dichotomy, that must have been someone else. i'm saying it figures in. period.

i'm hardly caring anymore, honestly. i've such fatigue on this.

___________________________
.delusions of un mundo mejor.

I understand that those who exercise will tell you that it necessary to feel the burn to make real progress.

Me, I'm exhausted after being fucked for my entire adult life by the Conservative Movement, and when I see defeat being snatched from the jaws of victory with accomodationist rhetoric designed invite right wing opportunists to help fuck me again, I just want to lie down and howl.

But one goes on.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

.

I've decided: Edwards gets my vote on Tuesday. I'm so happy that he's not endorsing -- maybe he shares my opinion that neither Clinton nor Obama has earned his support. My hope is that Hillary and Barack will go to the convention with fairly equal numbers of delegates. I think a brokered convention would be good for everyone; it would force both candidates to put aside their cautious, fence-sitting ways and prove to the delegates who really deserves the nomination. Till then, I breathe. The fight's not over, but I'm disengaging for the moment so I don't wear myself out.

any comment on obama's ability to unite the surviving members of the grateful dead

"If something cannot go on forever, it will stop."

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

fatigue is your enemy maybe. nobody can speak for what mine are, right?

and on the edwards asseration people keep making, i honestly dont understand how voting for edwards on tuesday is any different than my voting for nader in november, for example. aren't they both "wasted votes" or, given another view, "votes of conscience"?

anyway, i'm sure someone has a smart snarky answer. talk to the fatigue.

___________________________
.delusions of un mundo mejor.

I have not seen/heard a definitive answer to that question. Anyone?

I want to vote for Edwards on SuperDuperTuesday, I don't want to have to choose between Hillary and Obama (like MoveOn forced it's members to do) if I don't have to.

This entry on the John Edwards Blog says it will be up to each state's Dem Committee but it has no sourcing.

or whatever it is that Deadheads think is cute.

Are you referring to this?

Full disclosure: I hate the Greatful Dead, always have. I blame punk rock.

Real men support Hillary...wimps, poseurs and intellectual light weights (who think the opposite of themselves) support Obama...probably real men supported Edwards...

wannabee prom kings and queens support Obama...in fact, all wannabees support Obama..as do those who want to be cool, chill, wet or frozen. On the other hand, hot belongs to the Hillary supporters.

Which distills it all to hot and cold. Hot for Hillary...or Cold to Obama...

I'd say more...but I would probably be taking it too far...But men who support Hillary are probably much sexier than men who don't. Naturally this is very unscientific and is strictly based on anecdotal information. And this woman's point of view, of course.

The pisser is that every Dem candidate for President in the last 20 years has been lectured by the Village about the utmost necessity of bending to the Right.

This is the Only Way to Win. The only way to capture the ever fickle, and essential, "moderate" vote.

The Dem candidates who won the nomination dutifully complied. And lost.

Yes, there was cheating and shenanigans. But these contests should never have been as close as they were.

The Dems lost because they ended up fighting over the same pool of Right-leaning voters, and at the same time failed to differentiate themselves ideologically from their Republican opponents.

Surely Kristol, Sullivan, Brooks, and Broder are honest Republicans who are supporting Obama because, for the good of the country, they want a Democrat to win?

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

There's a chart--it's the one Atrios linked to yesterday--from a joint called centerpolitics or something like that, which has a complete chart for everything from poll/caucus opening and closing times to whether they are open, closed, some combination (according to these guys North Dakota not only doesn't register people by party, they don't have voter registration at all. I am not sure I believe this but there you go.)

At any rate if I understood their description correctly, all Democratic primaries have proportional representation (vs. winner take all) but there is something called a 15 percent rule. They do not make clear to my feeble brain whether this is statewide or by congressional district. Maybe you can make more sense of it; I was looking for some other bit of data and may have misread.

In any case I have said all along and continue to believe that no vote in any primary is wasted if it represents your honest, considered opinion as to which candidate best represents your views. That's what primaries are for dammit and I am driven to hair-pulling (my own, being a pacifist mostly) and drink by people who treat it like a horse race, trying to figure out who is most likely to succeed so they can vote for a "winner."

This is great at Churchill Downs. Not so great in primary elections.

btw I received my first actual bit of primary electioneering material today. From Hillary. And was told I could have "talked" (actually listened) to her on the phone except I was out buying a watch battery when she called. I fear she failed to persuade Prince Namor, who has gone all OFB on me.

which we seem to do even when we "win".

Now that Edwards is out, I'll be casting a vote for Obama. Because I buy into the cult of personality? No. Because it looks like the Republicans are about to nominate the only candidate in the field that outpolled any of the leading Dem candidates...and the Dems, true to form, look poised to nominate the only candidate that would lose to the only GOP candidate that could win. In every other matchup of Dem vs. GOP, the Dem candidate wins (at least in the polling done thus far) - only with McCain vs. Hillary do we lose. Hey, let's do that!!!!

Is there some Machiavellian plot by the Democratic Party to purposefully throw each and every election, even the ones that should be cakewalks?

Beyond that, I remain convinced that there are people other than those with a last name of "Bush" or "Clinton" who are qualified to lead the country - many of them, in fact, who are much more qualified. So I don't even have to get into the fact that there is no principle I'm aware of that she doesn't seem to be willing to throw by the wayside for the sake of political expediency, though there is that, too.

If she wins the nomination, I'll hold my nose and vote for her and hope that she was just pandering all those times she reaffirmed her support for the war and that time she indicated her support for the anti-flag burning amendment and lots of other stuff. But I won't really expect things to get a whole lot better, because first off I doubt she'll win, and even if she does, her entire time in office will be spent fending off the wingnut attack dogs and caving to the right.

vote your conscience and true desires. The general is when you're stuck with whoever the nominee is.

Don't dare say it's like Nader--our choices now are Orange-scented TIDE and NEW! Lemon-scented TIDE only, and that's wrong.

Edwards only "suspended", so he can still collect delegates--and i'm hoping enough people do it all over the country tuesday to really send a message.

Along with one of the choices being a straw man!

Can be used by anyone, even those of us in the reality-based community.8

It was Edwards who moved Clinton and Obama to the rhetoric of the left, forcing them to abandon the mealy-mouthed middle (right). For all their supporters, this doesn't mean they are actually middle right; I'm sure they're just positioning themselves for the general election, the way all their supporters tell me. Anyway, I want to keep saying that I support universal health care, the rights of labor, dropping the silliness of the war on terror, et al. I don't want Obama and Clinton to think, thank God, the rabble rouser is gone, so everybody will forget all that stuff again.

However, if you think that the primary is like the election of 2000 and that one of the candidates is like Bush, then I think you should definitely vote for the other one.

positions on everything except war, and i'm in NY, so it's gonna be Hillary collecting the lion's share of delegates no matter how i vote.

from LA Times on the SOTU:
... Trust the American people, he said -- again and again ... Trust them to demand better schools, and schools will improve. Trust scientists to think big about global warming, and they will hit on solutions. All of that is fine, and yet for all of Bush's trust in the American people, he also made clear that he lacks essential confidence in their government -- his government.
...
Americans have many troubles, and they are asking their government for help. Healthcare has become unaffordable for millions. Bush hears those woes but rejects sensible solutions for ideological reasons -- favoring "consumer choice, not government control." ...

When the people genuinely need its help, the government should act, not merely encourage. ... -- http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-e...

It was Edwards who moved Clinton and Obama to the rhetoric of the left, forcing them to abandon the mealy-mouthed middle (right). For all their supporters, this doesn’t mean they are actually middle right; I’m sure they’re just positioning themselves for the general election, the way all their supporters tell me. Anyway, I want to keep saying that I support universal health care, the rights of labor, dropping the silliness of the war on terror, et al. I don’t want Obama and Clinton to think, thank God, the rabble rouser is gone, so everybody will forget all that stuff again.

However, if you think that the primary is like the election of 2000 and that one of the candidates is like Bush, then I think you should definitely vote for the other one.

I don't so much think this is like the 2000 general as I know it's similar to the 2004 general. Without Edwards, the rightward slide has no brakes -- and that is an abomination up with which I will not put in silence, in apprehension, in go-along-to-get-along compliance.

I will never know what happened to make John Kerry fold so suddenly and thoroughly on counting the votes in 2004. Whatever it was didn't happen to John Edwards (witness the following four years). If he had to learn to be a progressive by being thrown into the shark-infested waters of DC politics as a freshman Senator, he showed me a lot of willingness to absorb those lessons and adjust his behavior afterwards.

I know in my heart that Bush stole both his "electoral victories." Telling me to get over that does about as much good as blaming me, and other real Texans, for the Connecticut poseur's foibles and psychopathy in office; knowing the truth is not the same as being able to get the message out past the media and the Faux Noise and the churchbell / dogwhistle cacophony, though.

John Edwards kept trying until he had, quite literally, nothing left to try with except the work he could do with his own two hands, and even on a day when -- as any man's would when he sees the passion to which he has devoted his life is not within reach at last -- his heart must have been breaking, John Edwards took his two hands and his convictions and went to work to help New Orleans' survivors -- not its victims, but its survivors. So I salute him, I respect him, and I will vote for him. I don't think he's given up; I think he's rethinking, regrouping, looking for ways to make the vision he sees of America come to life -- he's too good a trial lawyer not to; and as he did for all his clients, he is working for us, now. Fact is, I want to live in One America.

Chris Dodd went -- to his credit -- back to fight on the Senate floor against FISA bills that never should have shadowed our legislative halls. Gravel retreated to Alaska. Dennis Kucinich, bless him, is trying to hold off the hordes of GOP and GOP-lite Representatives (and he's got to deal with Kay Granger in a professional manner, which is more than FSM ought to ask any sane man to attempt) in Congress. They have seen that, for whatever reason, this year is not the year for them to seek the White House. With that in mind I urge their constituents and all other progressive and liberal Democrats to support them steadfastly as they continue to fight on our behalf as Americans.

Edwards had one huge thing going for him: among all the Democratic candidates this time, he was the sole non-incumbent; he put his fortune and his reputation at risk, as all candidates do, but he had no sinecure to return to. I'm Southern enough to understand that, and Texan enough to respect it.

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

So I turn on C-SPAN in the middle of The Fraud's speech in St. Louis tonight. Lo and behold, what's the first thing I hear? The Man Who Loves Reagan is bragging about all the "Republicans" who have "whispered" in his ear that they've been voting for him in the primaries. Like I've said time and again, these Reagan-Democrat corporatist frauds covet wingnut voters above all. They'll dismiss their own progressive supporters as "cranks" or "zealots" or "the looney left," while immediately falling to their knees to fellate the nearest group of Bush Republicans in the hope of being rewarded with a pat on the head. Goddamn sickening . . .

And, by the way, the Whore Clinton is every bit as bad . . .

Want to do something useful? Send a few bucks to Cindy Sheehan: www.cindyforcongress.org

Apologies for what will for most be an inside joke...but then again you don't have to know the people involved to understand both points being made here. The original speaker is an esteemed Atriotian nymed "fourlegsgood":

I don't want to get in the middle of this stupid fight, but if you
can't recognize that Obama is hitting some kind of deep seated,
emotional chord out there, you are being willfully blind.

flg, as he is known, is imho summing up the essential point of Obamism: He's inspiring, he offers hope, he gets the kids into it, he could blow McCain out of the water whereas Hillary ekes out a bare win if lucky. Eh? Aren't those the essential arguments of the Oborg crowd? The rhetorical; the inspirational; the futuristic and the pragmatic. As consisely put as is probably possible.

In Socratic response is/are another Atros regular(s) known, almost invariably, as "kei & yuri." They claim to be ex-Marine very-well-read-and-exposed-to-current-popular-culture radical lesbians. There is no doubt about the well-read part. Here we go:

We sure see him shooting for it, it's just that it strikes us as highly suspicious to have to do so much work considering W is a IX/XI-like godsend for a true opposition; your work is pretty much cut out for you and labeled with instructions. It's as if FDR is facing Hitler, Tojo and Mussolini -- so he starts singing about how important it is to smile at everyone you meet.

Obama, were he as well financed as he is sharp, shoud hire K&Y forthwith at high salary. If he can bring them on board they can singlehandedly convince the world that he's worth taking a chance on.

Having debated posting this addendum as a post, I choose not to and leave it here instead. I know nothing about this site, this video, who made it or who's behind it. But if it were cut down to 1 minute running time--with the "I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message" running at the very end--he could very likely be elected by acclamation on Tuesday rather than messing around with the rest of that election stuff.

You will either be tipped over the edge to final conversion to Obamism by this video or you will be irresistably reminded of this one and be somewhat disturbed.

Brilliant comment, Xan. Why not make it a post?

And yes, I do see what you mean about those two videos. Politics sure ain't beanbag. I've always hated accordion music.

Word for the day:

Schwärmerei ....

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

I bet I can make a very close guess on "Schwarmerei" (based on the initial cognate with "Swarm") but it would only be a guess. German is a language of which I have not even a little teeny bit. They can claim all they want that English is structurally and historically and shit closer to German than the other European languages, but I sure don't see it.

Maybe it's the agglutinative structure. As Cecil Adams tells us, the translation of "Look at all this fucking snow" from English into Aleuit/Eskimo is one word that comes out as "Observe the snow. It fornicates."

Just imagining the stir it would cause makes me irrationally giddy....Please...go cross post a diary over there...It might cause a sensation.

What was that again about the power of repetition?

Put it up, xan; popular acclaim, patriotic duty, stuff like that.

So I posted a comment on the latest one I saw.

Like its subject, it will largely say to each listener what they want to hear. Damn it has some suction though--i've played it through at least six times so far. The first three or four I was trying to identify people, look at production values, etc.

After that I had to admit I was playing it for the rush.

Musically speaking though it kept reminding me of something. Finally figured that one out...upon relistening they weren't as close as I thought, but there are definite recollections of Biko to be heard, yes there are.

for validating his sweaty fantasy.

You will either be tipped over the edge to final conversion to Obamism by this video or you will be irresistably reminded of this one and be somewhat disturbed.

reply I lasted to 1:15 Submitted by lambert on Sun, 2008-02-03 01:19. Brilliant comment, Xan. Why not make it a post?

Xan…transcendent

yeah, brilliant, transcendent... why, heck, why not send it to Jonah Goldberg tomorrow! Isn't this right up his fat alley? You can help him sell more books. You could help him write his next book: Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Singing Brownshirts in Cafes to the MusicVideo Politics of Obamaism.

Sounds like a bestseller!

Why stop there? Why not compare the OFB to the Ku Klux Klan too? Or the Right Wing Peronists in Argentina? How about the Sons of Confederate Veterans...? The Rev Moon and all his little Moonies.... Why, you'll never run out of irresistable reminders. Think of all the books you and Jonah could scribble together.

Would you run your "brilliant, transcendent" video comparison above during the general election if it comes down to Obama and McCain (just to warn all the wingnuts who tomorrow might belong to)? Why not?

*

Maybe Bob Dylan will come out with an Obama song next, who knows...

The point, I think, is that Cult of Personality is Not A Good Thing. Even if that personality is teh awesome.

I watched the South Carolina victory speech that even Bareback Andy was drooling over and I found the "spontaneous" chants of "yes we can!" a little bit eerie.

People like George Will and David Brooks, only a few (but significant) degrees of wingnuttiness removed from Johan Pantload are also drooling over the Obama. It's a concern, dude.

Corrente Peeps have been much harsher on the Obama than the Hitlery (sic), but I think that is because a lot of the blogosphere is failing to call bullshit on Obama. Both choices suck IMNSHO.

I've said it before and I'm going to repeat myself because I have nothing new: Blind faith in authority figures is not a progressive value.

I’ve said it before and I’m going to repeat myself because I have nothing new: Blind faith in authority figures is not a progressive value.

Well ok, I'm going to repeat myself because I don't think you know the difference between blind faith in a racist quasi military ultra violent authoritarian fascist/nazi party movement and the kind of people who backed that movement up and the (granted spirited) support of a democratically elected centrist Senatorial candidate running a legitimate political campaign in a democracy --- ok? Do you really think that those people singing in the video Xan linked are the equivalent of Brownshirt Nazis? Really? Do you think KOs is a secret Brownshirt Nazi? How about Ted Kennedy.. is Ted Kennedy a Brownshirt Nazi?

Or maybe you can't figure out what the difference is. Its all just a big blind blurr to you? Kinda like your own "cultlike" support of the Green Party and Nader in the past - eh? Sure Shystee.... its all the same blind faith.... Right?

Ya know what? I know what blind faith in an authority figure is all about when it comes to comparing the Nazi Party in Germany to a Dem Party candidate from Illinois. OK?

(or maybe you suddenly now believe everything David Brooks and Bill Kristol and Bill Bennett tell yooo! what if they tell you to vote for Hillary... what will you do then, vote for McCain?)

I don't support either Obama or Clinton for that matter....not yet anyway. I'm not even a registered member of any political party. But cheesy little Jonah Goldberglike comparisons to Nazi Germany from people who don't even know much about what german words means is annoying... idiotic... and basically stooopid on levels i find remarkable even coming from this this boing-eyed carneyshow of a blog. Especially when you have people like John Yoo and David Addington constructing unitary executive judicial mazes - that would make Carl Schmidt giddy - behind your back.... well, what can i say except while you are at it why don't you answer my question below:

Would you run your “brilliant, transcendent” video comparison [of Nazi Germany to Obama] above during the general election if it comes down to Obama and McCain (just to warn all the wingnuts who tomorrow might belong to)? Why not?

Well? Answer the question.

and then you teach them the difference between the right feetsies and left ones, and then you beat a drum to give them the rhythm, and then, voila, you have turned a herd of cats from a herd into another sort of group who can be marched off to do what you want.

Dammit I like "belonging to no organized political party--I'm a Democrat." I like that attempts to herd cats cause them to run off in all directions as their individual interests and desires dictate.

We are herd beasts at the best of times. When everybody else around us does something it takes a considerable act of will to refrain from following suit--we may call it politeness, or "when in Rome" or whatever but when they say "please rise for the national anthem" at the sports arena, and you don't, you know you will get dirty looks at the very least.

Get people shouting loudly and they feel great. They're on their feet and they're breathing deeply and their blood is oxygenated and they're as energized as they can be...and they have the rare and wonderful, if subconcious, feeling of absolute safety. Because they're surrounded by their herd and the herd will protect them.

Hell yes it's a rush. Addictive as shit. It also turns a gathering into a crowd and the crowd into a mob. When you're chanting your little three-word recitation you sure as hell arent' using any of your higher thinking centers.

(Shrug.) I did not call Obama Hitler for chrissakes. I expressed some reservations about a speech simpleminded enough it can be turned into a song. Hey, it's a brilliant effort, never denied that. But I'd like to see them do something similar with Lincoln's Second Inaugural, or Kennedy's first. Or maybe it's a little harder to do with longer words than "yes I can" or longer sentences that actually, like, express ideas?

I don't like herds, I don't like mobs, I don't like mindless chants. That makes me an ally of Doughy Pantload Goldberg?

Oh, and the notion that since Ted Kennedy endorses Obama I should STFU and get on the Obama Express? Please. Argument from authority does not sound like you. Teddy K is welcome to endorse Glinda the Good Witch of the North if he so chooses; that doesn't make him right, me wrong, or her the best candidate to run in November. Gosh whatever got the word "witch" into my mind when discussing this subject? Clearly I need more coffee.

http://www.correntewire.com/no_ponies_fo...

The blind joinerism of the OFB has reached the point where in two different arguments I've had with them, they've claimed that Obamaism isn't a cult... because there never was any such thing as a cult.

It couldn't have reminded me more of DePalma's Sisters, where the witness had been brainwashed into repeating "It was all a ridiculous mistake. There was no body, because there was no murder." Well, sure Obama hasn't murdered anyone like Hillary killed Vince Foster. But Jennifer Salt's character didn't claim there was no such thing as murder, either.

Whatever else is true about the junior Senator from Illinois, there is a goddamn cult of personality building around him.

From the get-the-GOP-bastards-out-of-power perspective, that could be a plus, if the cult doesn't fade or doesn't turn off those precious indie and theoretically repentant Bush voters, the way it's turning some of our stomachs.

Sacredness sucks, unless you're talking about something irreducibly important like the sacred bond of protecting your child (When life begins? That's a whole other kettle of fish.) or always-admirable qualities like fairness and empathy.

To quote myself again:

In some ways, isn’t there a kind of untouchable “sacredness” applied to the troops — putting them up on a pedestal — that’s really a disservice to them? They become an abstraction, something people use like a cudgel in platitudes and slogans, instead of talking about them as real people about whom life and death decisions are being made. You can keep them in a quagmire hellhole, because you’re not talking about young men and women. To me that seems a very dangerous thing.

Sacredness turns off critical faculties. It tastes likes Kool-Aid and smells like ponies, but it leaves you with an awful headache in the morning.

... over at DK, if you haven't already, if you don't think there are cult of personality issues here. It's brutal.

Sure, I don't see any OFB buying brown uniforms or advocating the extermination of racial groups -- the Hillary hatred isn't all that virulent -- but that's not the point. The point is that the creation and engineered manipulation of mass political movements centered on a charismatic figure has a long history, and I'm scratching my head trying to think of an example that didn't end very badly. Can you supply one?

Contrast the Deaniacs, where the enthusiasm came from the bottom up, and Dean was surprised by it. To be fair, if he'd gone the cult route, he might have won, but Dean wasn't that kind of person.

On the other hand, politics ain't beanbag, and maybe this is what it takes. I dunno.

"Yes, we can." Do what? The vacuity knobs are turned up 11 and whole auditoriums are acting it's the second coming. There's no potential problem here? As Xan said, that doesn't sound like you. What's going on?

UPDATE Xan's comment on the feeling of safety engendered by the communal bloodrush is also acute. It is an antidote to fear. Not my antidote, though.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

the best part of xan's* post is the Kei & Yuri part, anyway.

will.i.am's ObamaNation? eh. it's a slick, well-produced and edited video. so fucking what.

it seems to me that the whole concept of "Hitler/Nazi" is one that we should simply avoid, if only because it escalates any discussion into incoherence. mind you, I'm certainly ready to accord Bush full-on Nazi status: after you kill, what is it now according to the Lancet?--well over a million Iraqis, the term "genocide" isn't even up for debate. but, for some reason, using the words "Hitler" and "Nazi" invoke an instinctual over-response, as if they should be reserved for killing one's own Jewish citizens. so let's don't use them! "war criminals" and "genocide" work plenty good.

I think what many of us are most worried by is the tendency shown by many of our friends and family to sign right up for the cult of personality, because we recognize the danger therein, whether the end result is Hitlerian or Bushian.

*--a procedural question...you guys all lower-case your names for the timestamp portion of your posts...do you prefer upper-casing them in the body of a comment? a curious fan of lower-casing would like to know... :)

There is no such things. Heck, CD -- my preference, since I think of that as an acronym for ChicagoDyke -- writes entire posts in lower case, not just her name.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

What happens when you put Obamabots in charge of a message board:

http://www.mikemalloy.com/board/viewtopi...

As much as I despise Hillary Clinton, the best thing she has going for her right now is that she's not Barack Obama. No way do I want these thin-skinned Obamabot assholes* running things.

* I apologize in advance to OFB readers who view the word "asshole" as either racist or homophobic . . .

or whatever it is you use to fertilize the Farm.

Please follow along:

- Obama has a personality cult among many of his followers.

- Personality cults are not good.

- All personality cults are not Racist/Fascist/Nazi movements.

- Obama is not a Racist/Fascist/Nazi.

As for the Nader thing, yes I voted for Darth Nader twice, but I don't think anyone would call him a charismatic leader figure. I voted Green because I agreed with what Nader said about policy and issues.

Suppose that Hillary wins the popular vote, but loses the exit polls because of mail in votes where she has an advantage.

Will our famously free press accept the legitimacy of the result? More to the point, will the OFB, after all the whining after NH and NV?

NOTE If Shystee was a Florida resident in 2000 and voted for Nader, naturally we would have had to kill him. Since he didn't, I don't think we do.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Now quick, do something to take down Hillary so we can get Edwards back.

Perfectly legitimate concern, perfectly appropriate to express. Compared to what he'll have to deal with in the general, this was a slap on the wrist.

I don’t like herds, I don’t like mobs, I don’t like mindless chants. That makes me an ally of Doughy Pantload Goldberg?

speaking of mindless chanting: what makes you an ally of Doughy Pantload here is your comparison of a video clips (one being a clip from Cabaret of a Nazi singing Tomarrow Belongs To Me, and the other a campaign clip of various people singing something or other in praise of Barack Obama.) Apparently, you believe those two items are of comparable weight? Apparently you are to dense to understand the substantive differences between those two... just as Jonah Goldberg is too dense to understand the sunstantive differences he writes about in his book Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Singing Brownshirts in Cafes to the MusicVideo Politics of Obamaism (or whatever its called).

Oh, and the notion that since Ted Kennedy endorses Obama I should STFU and get on the Obama Express? Please. Argument from authority does not sound like you.

You think this is an argument from authority? This is an argument from me. And I think you know exactly what the argument is.

Now, why don't one of you cowards answer my question:

Would you run your “brilliant, transcendent” video comparison [of Nazi Germany to Obama] above during the general election if it comes down to Obama and McCain (just to warn all the wingnuts who tomorrow might belong to)? Why not?

*

Obama has a personality cult among many of his followers.

- Personality cults are not good.

- All personality cults are not Racist/Fascist/Nazi movements.

- Obama is not a Racist/Fascist/Nazi.

Yet, still, here is a "brilliant, transcendent" post comparing him to a Racist/Fascist/Nazi.

*

For pity's sake.

What Xan said:

You will either be tipped over the edge to final conversion to Obamism by this video or you will be irresistably reminded of this one and be somewhat disturbed.

More Unity, I see...

UPDATE I used the word "brilliant." A commenter used the word "transcendant." Not Xan. Just sayin.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Herein lies the significance of Goldberg’s long list of current liberal attitudes—mocked by some reviewers—that mimic past fascist ideas. From the young Hillary Clinton’s attempt to collectivize children under the banner of rights through the authoritarianism of political correctness and “sensitivity training” to the post-religious “politics of meaning,” modern statist liberalism exhibits an itch to regulate the lives—and increasingly the minds—of others that seems both boundless and boundlessly self-confident. If Goldberg exagerrates he exagerates something real.

Whether or not this liberalism amounts to fascism is questionable—but it is a reasonable question and a warning to prudent liberals. That such a liberalism is closer to fascism than either doctrine is to Anglo-American conservatism Goldberg has established beyond reasonable doubt. - by John O'Sullivan

http://www.newcriterion.com/archives/26/...

Let's hear about you.

I'm not sure whether you're saying that Xan's "disturbance" is:

a. Wrong

b. Not to be spoken of

c. Some third option

I do notice--Yikes!--that we seem to have stumbled into both violating Godwin's Law and the danger of adopting right wing talking points.

(One might also argue that Goldberg's best selling book is so fucking capacious that anything could be fascistic, it's that polymorphously perverse. "Fascist" == "that which I fear at the moment." If that's the case, how are we to speak at all??)

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.