Health care defeatism from the blogger boiz

Looks like the defeatists at the SEIU (whose leadersheep have consistently ignored resolutions passed by their membership at their national convention) have mobilized their fan boiz in blogospehre.

Meteor Blades

All but its most delusional fans have known since well before November 4 that single-payer's near-term chances are - short of some fracture in the space-time continuum - a sliver above absolute zero.

We’ll see about that.

Edit - see comment.

Chris Bowers

Without the 60-vote option available to Republicans on health care, that makes enough to pass a public option in the health care bill. As such, it could really happen. And it needs to happen, as it is the only real way to keep down health care costs and make health care available to everyone.

Oh really? Define public plan. Because a Jim Crow plan which siphones money off to the third party parasite that administered it would not provide care. Blogger boiz have a hard time distinguishing between health insurance and health care. There would be a difference.

Dave Sirota

I've found in my work on health care that professional advocates of single payer seem to believe their biggest enemies are those who support single payer, but short of that, would also support a robust public option in a non-single payer universal system.

You poor little thing. Incidentally, Sirota lives in Colorado where a single payer initiative recently went down to defeat in the legislature. Would Sirota’s blogging in its defense at Open Left have made a difference? You would have to know something about Colorado politics to answer that question. But I am very underwhelmed by those who declare defeat before they have even tried.

The real question is why this sudden burst of defeatists posts on health care? I suspect it has to do with the brave action of the single payer advocates who were arrested at the Senate Budget Committee hearing. Baucus thought that he had blocked their access to the table. It did not occur to him that they would crash the table. Truly, your humble servant was reminded the original sit down strike at the South African Embassy, when TransAfrica announced that they would keep up their demonstrations until Apartheid was abolished. I mean, how practical was that? But they won (Ok, the people of South Africa won). There is a lesson there for those who would heed it.

This is national nurses week and our friends are observing it in big style. Coming up is the National Day of Action. Clearly the opposition is seriously concerned.

In summary, I would like to dedicate this to health care defeatists everywhere.

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You know, back in the day

getting arrested for a cause you believed in would have caused these guys to stand up and cheer.

But I guess this issue separates the men (and women) from the boiz.

And so what if Obama's health care plans aren't science-based?

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Hipparchia, question

I remember another case where I think we discussed censorship at a Health Care forum -- after the one that I posted on. Can you refresh my memory on where that was, or give a link? I remember you were listening to it, on CSPAN, I think.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

is this the one you're thinking of?

australia, from the california forum [the only one at healthreform.gov with no video available there].

apparently, single payer was never mentioned at the north carolina forum either.

gotta run, back later tonight if possible.

Love your keywords -

They Suck, indeed.

The Democrats: a roach motel for progressive energies

- VastLeft

Ur doin it rong, DCB.

Meteor Blades wasn't counselling defeat, he was blasting the Villagers who took single payer off the table. From the same link, mo better Meteor:

If single-payer is a non-starter, if it is so deeply flawed as to be unworkable, if the good things that its backers say of it are fantasies, if its adoption by our neighbors to the north has been such a disaster that there's talk of a Canadian civil war over the damage it has caused, why not expose this, humiliate single-payer advocates for their naivete and myopia and bring a proper end to the discussion once and for all, in full public view? Since the Democratic leadership has instead chosen to shut single-payer out of the discussion altogether, one can only ask, What the hell are you afraid of?

And:

But no. In place of this fundamental approach to negotiating a deal, we're seeing yet another example of how things work these days with the Democrats in control of Congress and the White House. Pre-compromise rules. Anybody who rejects that approach gets told to shut up.

If a majority of Democrats in Congress opposes single-payer, if they think it's bad or unworkable, let them get their leaders to order discussions on it and then vote it down. If they think it's impossible to pass given the make-up of Congress, which is no doubt an accurate assessment, then at least let them publicly lament the fact that health care reform this year will be half a loaf, if that. Otherwise, they might as well haul all of us away in handcuffs.

Reading for Comprehension is a Good thing.

JFK has been shot, we miss him a lot
He always knew what to do

-- Philly Cream

Yes, and no

I think DCB is right to characterize that statement from MB as defeatist.

However, kudos to MB for calling bullshit on the FKD.

So, a little nuance, pleae.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Defeatism, or pessimism?

Gramsci:

pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will

JFK has been shot, we miss him a lot
He always knew what to do

-- Philly Cream

Well, the wording does sting a bit, no?

"Delusional," for example. That's hardly neutral wording. It's polemical -- in other words, a defeatist stance (outcome-oriented) rather than a pessimistic one (general worldview).

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

MB was advocating angry protest, not acceptance.

So I still don't see the defeatism.

JFK has been shot, we miss him a lot
He always knew what to do

-- Philly Cream

Self-delete

dupe

JFK has been shot, we miss him a lot
He always knew what to do

-- Philly Cream