On Obama imposing "preventive detention" by executive order -- a trial balloon from three anonymous sources:
What I have NEVER praised is the idea that the President has the unilateral power to hold anyone indefinitely outside of a theater of war. Not only must Congress pass enabling legislation - the legislation must pass Constitutional muster (which means judicial review of the Presidential detentions) and must also comply with the Geneva Conventions. What Obama is reported to be contemplating is simply outrageous and unacceptable. It is Bushism on steroids. It would be unconstitutional. It would be struck down by the Supreme Court. It must be rejected and if Obama is even considering it, it is to his great discredit. It would be the most outrageous and offensive action Obama could take short of reimposing Bush's torture policy.
Well, that does lay down a baseline...
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I thought "pols are pols".
I'm never quite sure where that line is with BTD.
I do respect him because several times he has spoken against the grain of the Omob.
But then other times he gushes about Obama performances. I am so NOT into any political performance art at this point.
"If we have to have a dictator, who better than Obama"
- progressive blog commentator
Within the Constitutional framework...
pols are pols. But absent the framework, all we have is pure kleptocracy and rule by force, without any amelioration at all.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
I've never liked the "pols will be pols"
framework; it's too much like "boys will be boys," or any other construct that is accompanied by a shrug and the inertia of "what's the use?"
In other words, it's just an excuse that turns people into the equivalent of doormats.
Me either; it's a useless construction
since, as scoutt suggests, it could be used against BTD's comments here with just as equal meaning as he's ever used it against others. It adds nothing to the conversation; meaningless except that it contains mockery toward the person at whom it's directed for ever expecting more of politicians than acting like rabid dogs. It always annoyed me because I do expect more of politicians; I have a right to.
Of course, that being said, I agree with BTD on this point and I do think that while he's occasionally inconsistent on other things (who isn't, really), he's been dead-consistent on opposing anything that smacks of extra-constitutional presidential powers or a strong unitary executive.
Reasonable men adapt themselves to their environment; unreasonable men try to adapt their environment to themselves. Thus all progress is the result of the efforts of unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw
I don't use "he's a politician" as a "boys will be boys" variant
or "she's a politician" as a "probably on the rag" variant. If it's being read that way, it's being read wrong.
I use the "is a politician" construction to underscore the subject's CHOSEN PROFESSION, and the need to not merely recognize it but overcome it.
We've come a long way (all downhill imho) since St. Ronnie of the Raygun was first elected, politically, outside his union. He was an actor. He wasn't a "movie star," except in the sense that Christina Aguilera is a music star -- it's secondary, if not just an adjunct, to the 'celebrity' role that's central to the character. Not even as good as Kurt Russell's is the Reagan filmography; "bedtime for Bonzo" was a cliche during not merely both his terms but his race (against Gerald Ford) for the nomination in '76.
Reagan started his electioneering in a SAG race, remember? But then something went waytoowrong under that patent-leather hair, and he became a McCarthyite and a "small government conservative".
He gave us the "model" still being used, 40-some-odd years later (CA Gov. '66, yes?) for "success" in "leadership": spitshine bullfeathers with a big smile and let somebody smarter twist the meanings of your vague mouthings to suit the moment's exigencies (mostly it's been Cheney, since the Nixon years).
He derided poor people. He glamorized greed. He demonized "otherness". (Those things go way back with Reagan, btw. Ask his kids.) He lied (knowingly or not) about his own biography -- claiming he was a WW2 combat vet, when his "service" was in newsreel narrations, training films and PR. He was the slickest thing to hit the GOP since Tricky Dick in '60, and he brought a faux glamor to the party of do-nothing, all the while filling the Oval Office chair with a lack of conscience and consciousness unprecedented -- the perfect forerunner to w.
But Reagan had politicians in his corner, propping up his performance whenever it looked as if he might falter (and most if not all of them had GOP roots dating to Nixon and before).
Unlike lawyers, politicians don't have a bar association; their ethics are as fluid, at least, as those of the wheeler-dealer "settlement specialists" whose services to their clients are far more often disservice in the name of convenience (especially in a "tort reform" climate) than actual litigation in pursuit of justice. So yes, saying that so-and-so is a politician is a way of, in short, pointing out that you cannot take for granted that anything said will ever be adhered to, that anything offered will ever materialize, that you can afford the faith to trust even such easily-verified statements as the current state of precipitation in the vicinity from a politician. It's "of course they're not accountable, unless we make them be," in five syllables.
It applies to every single President ever elected -- look hard enough and you'll find dirty dealings and underhanded stunts, at least in the eyes of their political opponents, all the way back to the Constitutional Convention. It applies to every single Congressional officeholder ever, too; the PROFESSION is the problem, because it creates, or somehow inherently causes a mutation into, "politics" instead of "public service" -- sometimes among such ostensibly non-political entities as an elementary-school faculty, but always, always, always among those who run for office they have to pay to campaign for.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
It's a lot easier to ditch the
"pols will be pols" line, then, and replace it with "issues not politicians" if that's what you mean by overcoming the inherent flaws with the people elected to represent us. And I think BTD has always made that point - that it is better to work for issues one cares about than to trust politicians to do it for us.
I think it's important to note, however, that a significant number of people chose to abandon their common sense and their skepticism and, in spite of any number of pretty obvious warning signs, trusted this particular candidate - Obama - even though he was little more than heat and light and cotton-candy rhetoric, because he made them hope and they wanted change.
Well, duh. Everyone wanted that, didn't they? Some of us knew early on that he wasn't the right one for the job - finding out that we were right is not bringing us any particular joy, either, because we know what was lost - and in no small part, what was lost was leadership. Those who are more disappointed than ever in the Congress should understand that real leadership from the WH would likely be making a huge difference in the strength and resolve of the Democratic Congress, but leadership is well nigh impossible if the one who ought to be leading is also trying to accommodate the interests of the other side at every turn.
We needed someone who cared about the issues, but we got someone who cared about winning. So, he's a politician all right, but he isn't really a very good one; a couple more years in the Senate, and it would have been obvious that he was all talk and little else.
Yeah, he's the only game in town, and we have to make the best of it - I expected I would feel that way with a Republican president; it is beyond sad that I feel that way about a Democratic one.
There's your trouble, Anne: you think
there's a difference, at the DC level, between the Republicans and the Democrats.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
On issues of policy, Sarah, there damn well better be
some big differences.
This isn't about not being able to recognize that politicians, regardless of party, are flawed; it's about being disappointed on issues of policy, Sarah. The party I used to identify strongly with supporting things like civil liberties and human rights, the right to privacy and separation of church and state is now being led by someone who doesn't seem to have quite the same commitment I would expect from a Democrat.
[And, please, don't tell me what I think, okay?]
I would urge you, then, to consult the party's platform
and join with like-minded others in action on policy matters.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
BTD
knows that underneath the being surprised at this "reasserting" executive order and executive privilege, as he did today with signing statements, is a again believing that Obama is different. This is a Bush gift for the substantial expansion of presidential power. Once it is in place and the citizens accept it, it is not going away. Show me a politician who says no to power.
BTD is right to be perturbed/angry/outraged
about Obama possibly doing a Bush-like end-run around the Constitution, but for me, the outrage would not be significantly less if Obama had tasked Congress with the responsibility for legislating a preventive detention policy.
It's a terrible policy no matter how it comes into being - Congress gave us the FISA amendment, the Military Commissions Act and the Protect America Act: all terrible policy regardless of whatever safeguards were written in to them.
So, while I appreciate the attention being given to the unconstitutional method for instituting a policy of preventive detention, even if Obama decides to back off the rumored executive order route, and puts it in Congress' hands, it will not magically turn bad policy into good.
The administration
is perhaps worried about the junior senator from Wisconsin. I don't think Feingold will play nice about this sort of thing. At least I hope to hell he wouldn't.