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In which vastleft thanks Chris Bowers for a nuanced post

Thu, 11/13/2008 - 1:47pm — vastleft

Here.

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"A single comment at Corrente started a near blogswarm"

By amberglow on Thu, 11/13/2008 - 3:24pm

"A single comment at Corrente started a near blogswarm about supposed swaths of progressive who are too quick to condemn Obama. "

this comment--by Davidson -- http://www.correntewire.com/would_it_be_...

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Deru kugi ha utareru

By lambert on Thu, 11/13/2008 - 3:37pm

If it hadn't been that comment, it would have been another one.

"Wait 'til he does something" is about the most inane posture to adopt to a political figure that I can imagine; it's a recipe for authoritarian followership.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

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"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

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completely --

By amberglow on Thu, 11/13/2008 - 3:48pm

altho--i personally think the enormous vehemence with which people are attacking all criticism and all questioners is just a sign of how little they actually trust and believe in Obama themselves--

they constantly still need to reassure themselves that they're on the side of the angels or something--and constantly still need "others" to position themselves against so that they can paint themselves as somehow fighting some good fight.

Even after all the actions Obama has taken that are the opposite of "good"--each thing Obama does that calls into question the real worth of all the propping up and admiration they've given calls for a vicious attack on all who point out that he's not progressive or liberal or a fighter or at all what they painted him as. The more Obama doesn't fulfill their expectations, the meaner those who have invested so much in him become.

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They blogswarm at the drop of a hat

By Davidson on Thu, 11/13/2008 - 5:10pm

I used to read OpenLeft daily until NH. The comment section would condemn Hillary Clinton for every legitimate criticism of Obama's actual policies as "attacks." I couldn't take it anymore so I left.

I'm not going to even bother checking out that fuckery. I'm guessing they went especially batshit over the "black guy" part, but hey, they're the ones that actually wrote that post. Barack Obama wasn't Sen. Obama. He was the "black guy." The best part: most of those tools who comment are affluent white males, generally the base of lopsided power and influence and bigotry.

With regards to criticizing Obama: I don't see it happening. The so-called left doesn't want to get rid of Bushism, a culture that demands we hero worship an imperial president. They just want it to be their guy. If his FISA bait and switch vote doesn't tell you who Obama is, I don't know what will.

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just ignore the comments--

By amberglow on Thu, 11/13/2008 - 5:21pm

Bowers, Sirota and a few others there have been much more reasonable all along, i've found--compared to many many other sites.

Bowers seems to always have his eye on the real prize--which is getting good policy and programs to happen--not Obama himself or simply getting him in office.

Sirota too--now more than ever.

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If you do read it, I don't expect you'll be pleased with...

By vastleft on Thu, 11/13/2008 - 5:21pm

Chris's commentary about your comment.

That aside (easy for me to say, I admit), his post was a very welcome relief from the STFU culture that pervades PB1.0.

At the end of the day, Obama's being "the black guy" was -- along with him not being a Republican / not being John McCain -- was the short-term answer to Lambert's standing question: "And we get...?"

Now that Obama's the President-Elect, more answers will be coming, for better or worse.

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I don't get this "Wait until he does something...."

By MsExPat on Thu, 11/13/2008 - 9:02pm

because it suggests that right now Obama is doing nothing.

When, in fact, he's been "on the clock" since even before he won the election.

Right now, in the weeks before inauguration, is when the administration starts gathering its forces and laying the plans and the framework for the next couple of years. I would argue that NOW is a more crucial time to be lobbying, criticizing, and pushing Obama than 6 months in the future.

It's always easier to push a process in the direction you want it to go BEFORE the process actually starts.

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Well, think about it.

By pie on Thu, 11/13/2008 - 9:19pm

The problem with Obama, which has always been the problem with Obama, is that no one really knows what he stands for or what he supports. He's not like religion, so the faith-based stuff ain't going to work.

Those who put all their eggs in his basket don't know either, but they'll defend him to the death, or, more likely, until they "see the light" because he screws up and abandon him with the usual excuses.

I'm not expecting much, so I won't be disappointed. I only have one way to go...up.

Of course, it's not just Obama on the plank here. It's the dem majority in Congress. Two peas in a pod.

I remain, waiting to be pleasantly surprised.

A side note, my daughter set next to DK and his wife on a plane back to DC tonight. She texted my husband, and I told him to tell her to tell him to keep Obama "in line." My husband changed it to "on track," whatever that is.

We'll see.

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The flap makes the Times

By lambert on Thu, 11/13/2008 - 11:22pm

Here.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

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"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

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Bingo, Davidson.

By Damon on Fri, 11/14/2008 - 2:11am

This, I agree with, totally:

With regards to criticizing Obama: I don’t see it happening. The so-called left doesn’t want to get rid of Bushism, a culture that demands we hero worship an imperial president. They just want it to be their guy.

If that ain't the truth.

You know, in another time, perhaps I'd have been much more receptive to the "wait and see" argument, but after what we've been given in the last eight years I'd much rather be too critical, than not critical enough. At the end of the day, the president-elect has not earned our trust; in fact, he's given us reason after reason to be more than skeptical.

You see, the people that need government the least (which includes a great deal of the Blogger Boyz) can easily sit back and survive another four or eight years of a slightly better controlled disaster, if that is to happen. They can sit back and be Barack Obama's gatekeeper. It's time that we demand selfishness of ourselves, because most of them (Blogger Boyz) certainly aren't out there to protect the interest of the American people.

This is where I split with them, the idea that what is good for Obama (or ANY president for that matter) is necessarily good for us. Have we learned nothing in the last eight years? For me, Obama isn't even central to this, it's the whole idea about giving ourselves over to politicians without demanding that they work for us. Why do they feel this visceral need to protect him? Why don't they feel the same visceral need to protect the ones who really matter?

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But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...

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