she is a pretty good shot.

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"It's like, duh. Just when you thought there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between the two parties, the Republicans go and prove you're wrong." - Molly Ivins (RIP)

Good eatin.

I've always liked pressed duck.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

exposure to duck hunting, is from Nintendo's Duck Hunt, with the laughing dog.

Maybe that's his issue with guns, that damn dog laughed at him one too many times!!

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

"Senator Obama did not mean to imply that people hunt ducks with six-shooters"

Just another gutterball.

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"It's like, duh. Just when you thought there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between the two parties, the Republicans go and prove you're wrong." - Molly Ivins (RIP)

Via Suburban Guerilla, Tom Daschle lectures Mayor Nutter on Pennsylvania (after calling him "Mayor Nutty"):

by quoting them?

Obama said it, even if he didn't mean it.

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"It's like, duh. Just when you thought there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between the two parties, the Republicans go and prove you're wrong." - Molly Ivins (RIP)

Here - http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/0...

Its very astute of Lambert to correctly identify that its the "cling to" not the "bitter" part of Obama's words that are the major point of contention. There are some Obama attackers that haven't caught on to this.

But, what if Obama's comments were summarized this way (borrowing Lambert's summary and adding two implied words)?: "Obama said some working-class voters* are bitter over their economic circumstances and “cling to [issues of] guns and religion” as a result.

Doesn't this make the comments far less condescending? He's not belittling voters' embrace of religion and guns in their lives. He's bemoaning that these so called "value issues" have trumped economic platforms in determining how many small town Americans vote at the polls. You'll probably cry WORM on this, but I think in context of the question he was asked,its a fair interpretation. Its the meaning that both my wife and I immediately inferred upon first hearing the comments.

Obama is addressing an age-old hurdle for progressive platforms: convincing Americans that government can make their lives better - even if they don't feel that an economically-supportive government has come to fruition in their own lives. His original comments were sloppy and used negatively connotated, yet MSM buzz worthy, terms. And, of course, he didn't choose phrasing that was meant for public consumption - though he should no better.

That's why you already see Obama trying to pivot this issue towards an anti-DC populist message. Its the politicians who push lobbyist sponsored agendas that are out of touch with the working class.

he sure has to explain what he really meant a lot.

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"It's like, duh. Just when you thought there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between the two parties, the Republicans go and prove you're wrong." - Molly Ivins (RIP)

Explaing yourself as adversaries attempt to define you in their own narrative is par for the course in politics. What's your point?

Apparently, it's now OK to render an insulting Obama remark innocuous simply by adding additional words in square brackets. Good to know.

Seriously, if Obama wanted to walk this back, what he could be doing is pushing for policies that would really help working people, like universal health care. But no, he's got to crank up the Hillary hate with more insults and mockery.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Its not an arbitrary addition of two words. I think there's a strong case that Obama was indeed refering to the "issues of" religion and guns and not simply an afinity for religion and guns. Its certainly not a stretch to think this and its an interpretation that, IMHO, merits a response more engaging than your "Obama rules" mockery.

BTW, cranking up the _______ hate and mockery is not a one way street.

I have thoughts on universal health care that I want to share on this site, but its gonna have to wait til later. Gotta run...

The adversaries attempting to define Obama are using his own damn words--in context.

And if he's talking about "issues" of faith, then why the hell did he say--just yesterday--that it's a positive for people to "cling" to faith? He never said it was a positive for people to cling to issues of faith (whatever the hell that means).

Jesus!

Obama meant "[static] cling"!

Yeah, that's the ticket!

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Well, so, the Big Dream of Obama supporters is, I think, exactly what manahmanah was alluding to. In a sense, there is no real point in talking policy, because, according to them, policy discussions are automatically derailed by culture wars issues (Gods, guns, gays, and the Clintons...). Consequently, they support a candidate who will bring the "politics" to the fore, and unite people across the bounds of the culture war. Only when we've transcended the culture war, and put The Matter With Kansas to bed, can we have any kind of political campaign based on policy.

That's why Obama supporters genuinely fail to see the problem with his remarks. He's just articulating an obvious truth about American politics, from their point of view. That there are cultural issues that certain groups need to Get Over. That inspirational politics is the way to get them over it, rather than policy wonkery.

If they reject it, then it turns out that The Matter With Kansas is so strong that there's no point about talking policy anyway.

Either way, they can't "lose".

But, what if Obama’s comments were summarized this way (borrowing Lambert’s summary and adding two implied words)?: “Obama said some working-class voters* are bitter over their economic circumstances and “cling to [issues of] guns and religion” as a result.

But that's not all of what he said they cling to, is it? He also said they cling to anti-immigrant sentiments, anti-trade sentiments, and antipathy to people who aren’t like them. And for some reason, often when an Obama supporter tries to explain away what Obama meant, the part about voters clinging to bigotry and immigrant bashing. I wonder why that is? I'm sure it has nothing to do with undermining Obama's claim that he was talking about how people cling to what is good in hard times.

This W.O.R.M. thing is spinning out of control! Mandos diagnoses:

.... policy discussions are automatically derailed by culture wars issues .....

and that's why we need to do politics not policy.

Only the Unity Pony and the Meta Leader can save us!

Which, of course, explains why Obama has completely lost his mind, and has started insulting and mocking Hillary every chance he gets (as if it wasn't bad before!) "Six shooter" in a "duck blind"? WTF?

It's all so clear to me now!

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

The other end of it is, if the Unity Pony and the Metaleader cannot resolve The Matter With Kansas, then there is no way to resolve The Matter With Kansas, and there is no point in progressive politics at all as it will never get past God, Guns, and Gays (...and Clintons).

a cult of personality.

Look into my eyes, what do you see?
Cult of Personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
I've been everything you want to be
I'm the Cult of Personality
Like Mussolini and Kennedy
I'm the Cult of Personality

Neon lights, A Nobel Prize
The mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You don't have to follow me
Only you can set me free
I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your T.V.
I'm the Cult of Personality
I exploit you still you love me

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"It's like, duh. Just when you thought there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between the two parties, the Republicans go and prove you're wrong." - Molly Ivins (RIP)

and arrogant about people's religion, he equated racism and xenophobia with their religion and culture, he did so in a forum where he thought no one was listening but his fellow elites. those same fat cats cackled away at the poor old dumb rubes. houston, we have a problem

that Annie Oakley rant was the real Obama, i'm thinking--derisive, scorn, mocking...

-- Slate's XX Factor -- http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/xxfacto...

and also from there--a great breakdown of why it was so bad in so many ways -- http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/xxfacto... -- The Worst Thing I've Heard Obama Say

"... Now, if Obama is sticking by the essence of what he said out of stubbornness or arrogance, that's one kind of problem. But if he really doesn't see why this could be a game-changer, that's worse. And though I've been pretty unrelievedly positive about the guy, it's the first thing he's said that's made me question his ability to win. ..."

they're all over this--
"This "cling" flap just keeps getting worse. I was expecting some Obama redemption at the Christian school forum last night in Grantham, where each of the candidates had the chance to talk about their faith. ...
Instead, we got just a lot of faith babble, mindless clichés that could have come from John McCain or Howard Dean or the president of Georgetown or anyone who's evading uncomfortable stares from true believers: "Religion is a bulwark, a foundation"; "trials and tribulations"; "I was in no way demeaning a faith." Blah, blah, blah. Answers like these suggest either great guilt or great arrogance. He either recognizes that he insulted wide swaths of people and feels badly about it, or he doesn't even see it yet, in which case we're in real trouble. ..." -- http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/xxfacto...

and he's always weird and playing at being "contrarian" when it suits him --

"... I'm convinced that the great achievement of Republicanism over the past decades was getting average Americans to think that it was the Democrats who were the snobs. The person who convinced me of this (in a highly persuasive lecture) was Thomas Frank. Now Frank's theories--if you follow Rosenberg--are on the verge of convincing millions of average Americans that the Republicans were right, at least about the likely Dem nominee. ... " -- http://www.slate.com/id/2188487/#foursins

What he leaves out tho, is that now (the Democratic candidate!) Obama himself is reinforcing and validating it--not Frank.

I think that these words are left out of the analysis of what Obama really said. What he said in a condescending way is that "you know these folks are just crackers". The definition of a strong willed white person who speaks their mind. A "straight shooter" , granted in areas of the south this is a pride thing, Oddly enough all the words in the headline are different types of white folks with different histories.
Ironically, the Southern poor dirt farmer, picked cotton, did what they could to eat and buy grain for the crops, they relied solely on their families and neighbors to survive. They were looked down on, disparaged, and had the same problems with the poll tax, and the ability to attend school because of poverty. White trash during the ante bellum era were called on and paid hardly anything to do the jobs that the Plantation owner did not want to harm his property doing, so they called in the poor dirt farmer.
They were not looked at any better than animals, and they fought tooth and nail to survive. They have their roots in the democratic party because of Roosevelt, my grammie told me that if it weren't for Roosevelt none of us would have survived.
I recognized the tone Obama used for exactly what it was, he was calling whitey "cracker" and that brings up deep seated resentment not only in the South but amongst the whites who moved North the same reason blacks did to find a better life.
In Florida the word "cracker" is considered a hate crime. The naivete of people who dismiss what Obama said and the harm he has done to folks who were blood loyal to the democratic party but are now seriously reconsidering....
This goes beyond this elitist. It strikes to the root of the DNC. Without it being properly addressed, there will be no outcry, there will be no discourse there will simply be a straight and quiet line. Quiet representational of the silence that has met the history of the dirt farmer.....a quiet line to the voting booth with the lever or the one dot that lets us vote straight Cthulu.
What was forged by FDR is not absolute.

Obama is the hopiate of the masses

--Obama's supporters are using it everywhere.

its odd but different white perjorative words don't phase me

and to give Obama credit, I have been talking about my poor white roots, and the stories handed down, from Indian blood mixed in with Irish mixed in with a touch of that too.

These stories are rich and filled with sacrifice and integrity, and yeah a bit of cousin stuff too. But heck they had it tough, these folks didn't have time to worry about anything but surviving. And they have stories.

Unfortunately these stories are rarely heard, and where Obama is wrong, is that he lumps them in with the folks who were racist. Honey, my roots were so poor if they heard the word racist they would wonder how you could kill it so that you could eat it.
Race was not talked about in my family, except if my grampies black friends would come over they would say he was nice "colored " folk thats about as racy as it got.

Now kids learn racism from the moment they can talk and I think that is sad. I treasure growing up and playing with girls because they were girls, and not thinking that they were black.

Yeah, I talked to a friend recently who came from "hillbilly" blood, now its a different story all together and maybe is more along the lines of Obama's grandma, because "crackers" lived in cracker jack houses and they stayed alive any way they could, they were vocal about their rights and politics, and my grandpa would let the family go without shoes, food and shelter to save what he could to vote. My grammie was not too pleased about it in one sense but in another sense, it meant that someone in that family had a voice, and they worked hard, and long, my uncle said that my grammie could pick as much cotton as any man on the field and that she picked it clean too, and I forget the actual term now something like "didn't have to comb it". Which meant her cotton got the most, which was like a penny a pound, but back then you did what you could to survive.
Also they would put watermelons in along the crops so that while you were picking you could crack a melon open and eat it. Which probably is why blacks are identified with melons but to heck with that, those were good in the heat of hte day, working your ass off. Yeah.

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.
--Mark Twain--

Hillbillies? Got a link on that?

Because it's interesting. There is, in fact, significant support for Clinton in Appalachia. It's like everybody who wants government to work again is going with Hillary....

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

I've heard the "cracker" thing before, and I've heard "hillbilly" but no link in either cae. Evidence and reasoning, people! Stand up for Enlightenment values!

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Obama is the hopiate of the masses--jeqal--

link to what? you want links to the blogs where we are called cracker? Ok but you have to give me a moment
http://fray.slate.com/discuss/search/Sea...

here is a search for the term here.

But now I want a link to where you heard it before!

That's a lot of the reason the idiots hate them.

While Bill and Hillary are now millionaires, they haven't forgotten their roots. That's why they connect with middle-America.

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"It's like, duh. Just when you thought there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between the two parties, the Republicans go and prove you're wrong." - Molly Ivins (RIP)

lambert, other than on rightwing nutjob blogs, I've mostly seen the "Hillbilly" moniker in comments. A quick search of DK turned up a number of examples. See, e.g., here, here, and here.

Ugh, but after doing that search I feel dirty. Look at the assholes stereotyping entire states as being nothing but racists. Because you know there are no racists in Obama strongholds like Wisconsin, but Kentucky is nothing BUT racists. Jackass. At least others piped in to correct him.

... because of this very interesting article. What the writer did was take county vote totals for Hillary and Obama, and the overlay a topographical map -- and when he did:

Note how Obama performed best in the areas in the West and middle of the state -- in the Northeast and Southeast, his performance was not as strong. These also happen to be the whitest portions of the state.

But that can't be the entire story. After all, WI is almost uniformly white, and Obama performed well there. He did well in portions of Ohio.

But there is another aspect to this as well. Consider Virginia. Here is a blow-up of how the state voted.

Now, let's try something different. Let's overlay a topographic map of the state with the voting map.

And now the trend becomes clearer. As we get into mountainous country, into Appalachia, Obama's percentages, even in good states, drops precipitously.

In Mississippi, we see a similar result:

ere, the Delta region is plain as punch; when the hills start, we start to also see Obama's vote share drop (this is mitigated in the south-central portion of the state due to the aforementioned black belt running through). Thus, it isn't just the whiteness of districts, it is white, poor, Appalachian counties that constitute Hillary's wheelhouse. Now again, this isn't anything new. Its just that the maps drive home just how stark this divide is.

Basically, Hillary wins Appalachia which is important to PA, OH, VA, TN, and KY in the general.

So, it would be really, really smart if Obama didn't manage to alienate that constituency too, say, by the OFB calling them hillbillies. Because of how they "cling to" their mountainsides...

Can somebody tell me if there is a constituency that Obama hasn't alienated in the past week? It's a short list, for sure.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

yet

------------------------------------------------
"If I was Vice-President, you know what I'd do?

Vote for me!" - Joe Walsh (channeling Dick Cheney)

I had seen that piece before and loved the maps.

To be fair to the DKos community, my search turned up a number of commenters who defended Appalachia and/or referred to themselves as hillbillies. So I don't think it's all of the OFB.

But the Clintons have always been strong in Appalachia. If my mother, who is from rural Tennessee, is any indication, I suspect it's because she almost immediately sensed the elitism coming from the press towards the Clintons, the whole "it's not their town" vibe. She didn't even vote for him in 1992, but she did in 1996, fueled in large part I believe by a sense of regional pride. I remember her complaining about how everyone was after him. For her, it was obvious that it was because he was from Arkansas. Whether that was true or not, it felt true to her.

The more I think about the laughter in response to Obama's remarks about rural Pennsylvanians, the more damaging I think this entire episode is for him. I said this at Talk Left, but there's a sense among Appalachians that they are laughed at by city folks, that they are seen as a joke. And, really, who can blame them? Again, if my mother is any indication, there's a feeling that they are the last group in America it's okay to openly make fun of because they are powerless and white. So what Obama and those wealthy donors did by laughing, IMO, is play into their fear that even the people who claim to want to help them, laugh at them behind their back.

It's amazing that Obama claims he's trying to overcome cynicism because in this instance he likely increased it.

I'm seeing.... Wait, it's becoming more clear... Yes! I'm seeing an SNL sketch on this one...

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?...

(scroll thru and you'll see them)

and i just saw it earlier tonight in comments somewhere and it was on my mind...huffpost maybe?

I see Hillary at a fundraiser in rural Kentucky and everyone laughing at what narrow-minded, uncultured folks those big city, creative-class people are. Something like, "my cousin lives in San Francisco and she claims to like country music, but all she listens to is [insert lame corporate "country" musician of your choice]." Followed by, "I know, when I was in New York they tried to serve me Canadian Whiskey. Claimed it was just the same as Maker's Mark."

maybe are noticing the sexism, and not crushing on Obama anymore--if this is right--

Salon-- http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/04...
-- Hey, Obama boys: Back off already!

... Obama rolling into some "creative class" apartment, obviously feeling no pain, and then proceeding to smash all the wine racks. Maybe with a six shooter?

But then, I'm known for my subtlety.

[And I have to say, I stopped watching SNL in the mid-80s when the racism just got awful. So, this would need to be handled carefully. I had more in mind trashing the carefully cultivated cool persona.]

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

When I watched the clips with Hillary or about the debates, I didn't know who anyone was except Amy Poehler (and, of course, Tina Fey). And I only know Amy because she did a stint on the best comedy show ever, Arrested Development.

This is why the media is obsessively lying, spinning this episode as simply, "Obama said they feel left behind and who can blame them?" instead of what he actually said, which was the opposite: "They're all bigots who desperately cling to their guns, religion, anti-trade beliefs, and xenophobia as a crutch." But what I can't understand for the life of me is how the Democratic party thinks the full quote and that damning "laugh" video won't get played in the GE.

In terms of who Obama hasn't insulted yet: Stewart and Colbert. I can't watch them anymore, especially Colbert (he pushed the whole Clinton Muslim-baiting on 60 Minutes lie). The more the reality of what a GE disaster Obama is hits me--guaranteeing a McCain presidency and hurting Democrats downticket--the more livid I become at everyone who is trying to spin/blatantly lie for Obama.