A request for the case against McCain.
So far, I'm seeing some substantive suggestions and also fresh examples of why it's hard to love some hardcore Obamaites.
The reason for my inquiry? I'm burned out from watching Obama's shitty campaign, and I'm simply too disaffected and too exhausted to be the rah-rah Beat McCain guy.
But McCain sux, too, and as we make our respective decisions, it behooves us to remind ourselves of who will be elected if we abstain, make a third-party statement, or even vote for the mythical moderate maverick.
Believe me, my choice was a tough one. If you're a fellow dedicated Democrat (or other dedicated GOP hater), as likely you are, this decision may be tough for you, too.
When Hillary suspended her campaign, I had a crisis of conscience about what to do. And I simply couldn't get my mind around not voting to keep McCain out of office.
In some blogs/comments threads, I've been seeing some sympathy-for-the-devil generosity to McCain, and that motivated me to face my inner November.
If you're facing yours, I simply ask that you do it with no illusions about who McCain is, just like so many of you dear readers have done — bravely and exceptionally — in refusing the illusions about Obama.
Update: Wow, DU locked the thread!
It's not enough to offer these characters a round of "Kumbaya," you have to do it in their choice of key. Make of this what you will.
It's a pretty instructive thread all around. Do read it if you have a few minutes to spare.
Update 9/15/08: In case you missed it, I'm currently unconvinced to punch my card for Obama. Not voting for McCain, no way, no how. But past that, my vote is in play, still waiting for Obama to "ask for it" in some way loud enough to be heard here under the bus.
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The problem, VL
is why did you have to do it NOW? It's mid-June. There's still plenty of time to make that decision, and make it publicly.
What's the rush?
Seeking/speaking the truth is what it's all about for me
If at this given moment, keeping McCain out of the White House adds up to me as the most important thing to do, I'm not going to affect a hard-to-get pose and then come out with my true position later.
The fact is, Obama has shown no interest in properly asking for Hillary supporters' votes, and anything he does now in that direction will likely be as phony as his claim that his Iraq War speech was in the middle of a hotly contested campaign.
If I saw any realistic possibility that there'd be a credible opposition effort, such as a Hillary third-party run, I'd probably stay on the fence and see how much it materialized, or quite possibly haul in with it. But I don't see that happening, just gleeful disregard for us whether or not we hold out. Ultimately, this further weakens a weak deeply disappointing candidate against opposition I detest. Again, this is one of the shittiest decisions we've ever been called upon to make.
don't we all know the case against McCain anyway?
and--don't we also all know his record and accomplishments--most of which were "bipartisan" and exactly the tangible actions Obama only speaks of but never has done? He's doctrinaire GOP on many things, and doesn't at all love or care about the religious right or their needs, and is a hawk, and has worked successfully with all parties on crafting legislation for ages.
I think you are missing many other options--the process is still very open to influence--but only as long as people play hard to get til November--and make clear that all downtickets will be hurt too.
I see the logic, but like VL, it's not me
I'm not going to go all tactical and play hard to get. I can't be writing posts that I don't believe in for tactical purposes; I'm just not smart enough to do that. I said I'll vote for any D in the general; Obama is the presumptive nominee, so there we are. What Hillary said to do, I think, was to make sure that whatever policies we come out of this election with are closer to what we believe in than not. So that's what I'm starting to do. I'm a voter and citizen, not a political operative....
[x] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
i wonder, tho, if there's something about teams/certainty/etc
-- or group identifiers or something? -- that prevents people from letting things stay unsettled and undecided--or something like that.
Why jump onboard when you don't agree or trust the candidate? An why do it now instead of waiting, especially when there's no reason on Earth to jump onboard in such a public way--you're getting nothing, and giving up.
There are absolutely no benefits to getting onboard the unity train, and enormous drawbacks, so i have to think that it's psychological or something.
And look at how undecided voters are always courted every time--why not be courted for once in our lives? What is possibly wrong with that? And what is right with getting on board with no convictions?
The Reclusive Leftist puts it better than I can
The most substantive link so far
http://www.mccainpedia.org/index.php/Mai...
Another one (a recent McCain statement)
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/...
Votesmart comparisons
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_ca...
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_ca...
Don't we already know all that?
Ok, McCain sux. That does not make Obama a stronger candidate on his own merits. It does not erase his and his campaign behavior of the past months.
We all know McCain's record.
So, what's the point here?
The c-word re: his wife (the second one, not the one he ditched)
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_tem...
From the book "The Real John McCain":
"Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days."
This was my original off-the-top-of-the-head list
I meant to add "Bomb, Bomb Iran," but these are the first ones that jumped out at me:
(From my linked DU post)
* #1 cheerleader for the Iraq War
* Claimed moral highground on the Military Commissions Act (using his POW cred)... and then using that leverage to ratify torture and the suspension of habeas corpus
* Keating Five member
* Staunchly anti-choice
* Solution to Bush's failed economy? Making Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy permanent.
* Promises that, as Commander-in-Chief, he would delegate the decision on whether to stay in Iraq (to General Petraeus)
* Misogyny (publicly calling his wife the C-word, treating a question about "the bitch" as a legitimate one, and his demeaning joke about Chelsea Clinton)
* Knee-capped his friend John Kerry, e.g., by joining the fauxtrage over the "botched joke."
* Ditched his first wife for a millionairess
* Plays footsie with the Religious Right (Obama's also vulnerable on church-state, but it's still worth documenting McCain's sins in this area -- Hagee, etc.)
Another compendium of McCain oppo
http://www.mccainsource.com/
Troops coming home not important
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/11/mcca...
Q: A lot of people now say the surge is working.
McCAIN: Anyone who knows the facts on the ground say that.
Q: If it’s working, senator, do you now have a better estimate of when American forces can come home from Iraq?
McCAIN: No, but that’s not too important. What’s important is the casualties in Iraq. Americans are in South Korea. Americans are in Japan. American troops are in Germany. That’s all fine.
Another roundup
http://www.aflcio.org/issues/politics/mc...
Piling on
First let me make the controversial part of my statement. I respect McCain for having served in the military and survived a POW camp during Vietnam.
Now, that said, I cannot believe there are no better choices for president.
He is already surrounding himself with advisors whose influence will do nothing for the infrastructure, health care, or bringing jobs back to the USA (and maybe high enough energy prices will have something to do with that, but quien sabe?).
But right up there at the top of the list is how he kowtowed to Bush.
We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
we know why he's kowtowed to Bush--do we know
why Obama is kowtowing to the religious right, and insulting and dismissing numerous millions in other groups? And what are the implications of one versus the other?
McCain was savaged in 2000, and got on board the Bush train--it still hasn't helped him or reassured many GOPers. And he was a hawk before Dubya, and will always be one. He was someone who successfully shephereded many bipartisan bills thru Congress before Dubya, and will always be one. He got in trouble for Keating 5, and learned from it. He is well-liked by all sides of Congress, and has been for years--even by Kennedy and Feingold and the other non-Liebermans. ...
We feel we know McCain, and there won't be surprises--good or bad. Obama?
Please see update, above
.
wow, i cannot believe peeps over on DU!
i'm sorry they locked your thread, VL.
this is censorship at its worst, and apparently now censorship is fully institutionalized, according to Skinner:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...
what a strange, sad place DU has turned into...
I'm fucking trying to...
... help convince Obama skeptics to vote for him, and that's not good enough for them. What a bunch of wankers!
the DU thread-sad and very hostile--
this is not helping anyone with reasons FOR Obama--and that's something really really vital.
"McCain is worse" is not good enough this time--millions have made that crystal-clear.
Well...
Misogyny (publicly calling his wife the C-word, treating a question about “the bitch” as a legitimate one, and his demeaning joke about Chelsea Clinton)
Which makes him no different than a lot of the guys on the left, really.
My non vote is a cop out
As I never tire of telling you all, I live in the former Land of Lincoln, now "Land of Obama," home of the new DNC headquarters, and the future site of the Rezko financed Obamanation mega mall, Presidential Papers, and Whole Foods Arugula museum, so I am fairly certain the man will carry Illinois without my measly vote.
thus the heavy burden of facing my inner November is lifted. I'll financially support down ticket Dems and Dem challengers in other states to beef up the congressional majority.
my non vote for President, though a cop out, will do no material harm to Barry. And is actually a tradition that harkens back to my votes for McCarthy and Anderson (cuz I did not like Carter but would not vote republican).
I do feel for the dilemma of the vast corrente wing chair residers who must vote in Ohio and PA and FLA and MI... Tis a quandarry not devotely wished.
dupager
not a copout at all-
I'm in NY and it's blue too, but non-votes for president will affect popular vote totals, and it also will affect the postmortems, etc--Obama's campaign keeps talking about how many new voters will be brought to vote, so turnout is important--if people turnout but don't vote for president, it'll matter.
Our non-votes for the top of the ticket will count.