As was to be expected, few here are impressed with my call to forget all the major grievances this day. I sympathize a little bit, because contrary to some people's belief I am pretty sure I'm not a "crazed Obama-lover", but that doesn't mean that I care for the political trend that opposes him.
The reason why I feel that people should vote for Obama anyway despite the litany of grievances is because I don't believe that they have a viable plan to take advantage of an Obama loss. In 2000, I could sort of see the Nader argument at the time---the only way to hold the Democratic feet to the fire was to punish them for what felt like very large transgressions at the time (at the time! some of which I would still say are large disappointments), by putting in a one-term lame duck Republican and pushing the Nader campaign over 5% in the polls.
Nader didn't get 5% in the polls, and the Democratic Party insisted on learning precisely the wrong message, and in hindsight very predictably so. Many people blamed the Clinton wing of the party (DLC, Terry McAuliffe) for doing so, and the Dean phenomenon was born and appears to be reaching fruition at the moment. Obama's prominence stems in large part from that dynamic---the openly-held belief that the process has to be gamed first, well before any policy improvements can be made.
So, for those of you with leftish inclinations voting for someone other than Obama today, or not voting because you dislike the manner of Obama's rise to prominence, I have a question. Let's say you get your wish, and at 10pm we discover a surprise McPalin groundswell in key states. What do you think will happen next? How will progressive policies be implemented? How will power be achieved?
Because the kinds of stories that I've heard so far (Hillary 2012, and so on) seem to me to suffer from...a lack of historical vision that rivals the kind of forgetting I asked Obama opponents to exercise.
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Get used to it
We who didn't vote for Obama are just average everyday voters. We are no different from the other average everyday voters all around you who election year after election year vote for the person who appeals to them more. Obama made no attempts to appeal to us so we're not voting for him.
Furthermore, we have no more obligation to vote for him based on party affiliation than voters have in the past. Party affiliation is only important in the primary-which, I need to remind you, was highjacked by a bunch of fanatics.
Ok, fine. The DNC wanted Obama over the objections of more than half of it's members. Great! Primay's over. This is the general. And I'll vote for who I damn well please and it isn't going to be the guy who unleashed his hounds of misogynism and accusations of racism against me.
Don't like it? Tough titties. I'm entitled to my vote and I just cancelled yours out.
As to what happens next, well first we have to clean out the stable. Then we take on primary election reform, state by state. Then we vet candidates who are true progressives. Then we promote more women through campaigning and fundraising. Then we hold the media accountable.
Check out Heidi Li's list of resolutions http://tdg.typepad.com/heidi_lis_potpour...
I guarantee you that if Obama loses, the whole party is going to take it out on the people who rammed him down our throats. 3 elections in a row is a really bad record, especially after the Republicans covered themselves in shame.
Come together at The Confluence
Come together at The Confluence
See, that's my problem
You can vote for whom you want, but you seriously believe that you're going to be allowed to take the helm if Obama loses? Believe me, you are going to be lumped in with all the internet agitators, Obama-supporting or not, who would have brought such a debacle down upon the party. Worse, even, a huge section of the party will openly rather than clandestinely disown the factions they blame for the loss (eg, white working class "Archie Bunker"). You think they'll accept Clinton the next time, or won't follow the same strategy again?
That's precisely what I am not getting here. You seem to believe that you'd be allowed to build a machine in the manner that Dean and Kos has, without also falling prey to all the pitfalls, and without any of their participation and acceptance. It's seems extremely unlikely that, given what they've built, the purge would go the way you want it to.
I have no interest in building a new Kos like universe
He became completely irresponsible.
I am interested in a legitimate organization, perhaps even a new party. I think the electorate has reached a tipping point. It is time to explore such a possibility.
As for the Democratic party, I don't give a flying f^&* what they think of us. They will have lost. It's hard to get too cocky when you've lost three in a row. If they want to be taken seriously again, they've got to start paying attention to the people who vote Democratic.
THEY have a lot to answer for, not me. And if they continue down this path, they will become less and less powerful as a party.
Doesn't matter to me where you live. As far as the popular vote goes, I *did* cancel your vote out. YOURS specifically. I said to my vote as I cast it, "Go hence from this place and find Mandos' vote and smite it mightily."
It went down in a blaze of glory.
Come together at The Confluence
Come together at The Confluence
Just for my own obsessiveness...
Heh heh.
I'm not a citizen. But I've lived in the USA for years, and in any case my Canuck self would have been saturated with US electoral news day in and day out even if I were back up north.
But you did cancel out the vote of people close to me. I guess. I hope it gives you that poetic satisfaction.
I can't argue with faith...
...but it's just not clear that you can win without the rest of the Democratic Party. The Republican base is certainly never going to vote for what you want to build, so it's hard for me to see where your vote bank is in future elections. Not the AA community and not large chunks of California and NY and MA and...
Perhaps there's enough votes in rural Ohio...
Gotta love this
"...I *did* cancel your vote out. YOURS specifically. I said to my vote as I cast it, “Go hence from this place and find Mandos’ vote and smite it mightily.”
Wish I could write like that. Hilarious.
If they want to be taken
If they want to be taken seriously again, they’ve got to start paying attention to the people who vote Democratic.
Since you say you are not going to vote Democratic this election, why should they take you seriously?
Because there are more elections to come?
And because THEY work for US?
"You'd better get this straight. Wise up before it's too late." -- Sister Sledge
JFK has been shot, we miss him a lot
He always knew what to do
-- Philly Cream
BTW...
...you certainly haven't cancelled my "vote" out. ;)
Impressive resolutions for reform
Thanks for Heidi Li’s Resolutions link... after the election, you go girl!
OK, then how about this scenario...
Live in a red state. Not pink, not orangey-red, but deep, dark blood ain't-no-way-in-hell-it's-going-Democratic red.
My vote for Obama would not count in this situation, due to the electoral college.
Thus a vote for McKinney. She's not going to win my state, but neither is Obama.
Fair
If you're voting in a place where the (D) has no realistic chance, I guess no one can fault you for doing as you please.
Thus the write-in at ticket-top in TX, but the (D) for Noriega!
Because, seriously, Cornyn is not merely useless but D.U.M.B.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
"Forget" - That's My Problem w/Your Advice
I voted for Obama today but not because I have forgotten. Hell, I haven't even forgiven. And I think it's bad to advise people to forget because that's very close to "get over it", which is defeatist and unproductive. It certainly didn't help liberals (or even Democrats) after 2000. I don't think we're better off because so many decided to simply accept 2000 and move on. We're worse off that the story is told mostly by people like Bob Somerby and not by more liberal voices with broader reach. So forgetting hasn't helped since 2000 and it won't help us after this year. Those who forget the past and all that.
"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt
Fair again
You don't have to forget permanently. I'm largely writing with today in mind.
Whether it's Obama or McCain, the left and the middle
of the Democratic party will be sidelined. did you check out that Harry and Louise shit he ran with? What about that FISA vote? Net neutrality is gone, baby, gone if he wins. Title IX? Defenestrated. Roe V Wade? That chapter will close. It'll be a brave new world of belched-up, fifties patriarchy with more strip clubs, more moms losing custody and no healthcare for the likes of me.
I've written off the next four years either way. An Obama loss means gaming the system doesn't work and we can rid ourselves of the power structure that gave us the Gore/Kerry losses (though they both won the election) and get back to something real.
I don't want to split the party two elections in a row. However, it goes, I'm getting back to work with my Democratic party and opposing everything that wing of the party does. And if, God forbid, Obama wins, I'm going to do everything I can to help him lose in 2012.
I don't support racists or misogynists because they are the same damn thing. And no one would tell African Americans that they should support some racist blue dog because he belongs to the same party and ask them how they expect social progress if they don't vote for him. It would rightly be seen as the elitist, conscending crap it is. No one who runs the campaign Obama ran has any interest in equality or social justice. Just because misogyny is A-Okay with you, don't expect me to swallow and be some bruised up political Linda Lovelace who meekly goes along. Ain't gonna happen.
Minus a few IQ points, I see no difference between Bush and Obama - neither of them appears to have a conscience - and my vote will reflect that.
"Someone needs to point out that elephants produce infinitely more shit than donkeys." Brad Mays
Act locally, think globally
If McCain wins, or Obama wins, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference in my daily life. I'll be worried about whether Social Security continues to exist (I'm a few days from 59), health care costs, whether my daughter can find work when she graduates in May, and a few other similar things. We'll muddle through somehow.
But my wife and I will continue to work on the same local issues that we've worked on for years and support our friends who work on other issues - all of which are important to our community and none of which will be fixed no matter what the makeup of the Congress is or who sits in the White House. We've even started a couple projects in the last few years that are both for community benefit and for (small) profit.
This election - or any other - isn't going to trigger the apocalypse, although it may hasten it. But it's very unlikely the Democrats are going to do much but attend to the needs of their large donors, including the guy at the top of the ticket.
If you can, badger
I'd like to hear about those local projects.
"Bloom where you're planted," and all.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
OK
My wife started the local Teen Center about 10 years ago, and along with that the after-school tutoring program, which is now independently financed and run. The Teen Center was an off-shoot (in part) of a local anti-drug program - my wife was the local chair), and its clients tend to be the kind of kids who are at high risk for drug use, crime, or abuse at home.
Through that, we became good friends with the local Lutheran pastor (we're atheists). He runs the local peace vigil, the food bank (our community economy is ag/tourism, so winters can be hard), and raised $1 million for land for low-income housing - contractors in his parish will do some of the construction. Most of that benefits the local Hispanic community (20% of population, 50% of school population), which is entirely Catholic. We mostly donate to that stuff.
I've spent a lot of time on our local Community Wildfire Protection Plan, which involves working with the local fire district, county, state DNR, BLM and US Forest Service on fuel load reduction and making structures firesafe. For our section of the plan area, I wrote the request for a $150,000 grant (matching funds - $1 for each dollar of our cash or labor). It's approved, but jammed up with local politics at the moment, but should be busted loose in the next month or so.
My wife also turns wine and liquor bottles into glassware - our recycling center would have to pay to recycle it. She's given a lot away (no friend is without copious amounts of glassware), but sells to a local restaurant, sells wineries glassware from their own discarded bottles, and has some product in a local store. It does slightly better than breakeven, ignoring labor. It's all done with technology she developed using mostly off-the-shelf stuff from the hardware store (plus some diamond abrasives and cerium oxide polishing compound). She's taught other women how to do it, but it probably won't go viral.
For about 6-7 years I was the maintainer for a very large open source project (included with nearly every Linux distribution), but I've turned that over to someone else, and am currently developing a community website framework with a friend who owns a city domain name (like, for example, www.seattle.com, but unfortunately not for Seattle). It'll be ad-supported but a lot more community-friendly and community-oriented - not so much hotels, car rental, etc. which most city sites are. We'll see if that works out.
We do a lot of other little stuff (like most everyone) - we're 10 miles outside of a small town in an informal community, where people help each other in lots of ways. There's always plenty to do there too. We helped a neighbor build a yurt for the yoga classes he teaches, my wife cans and pickles in return for free fruit and veggies, some of us snowblow for others in winter, everyone pitched in to do cleanup after a big windstorm, lots of other stuff.
I'm sure everyone does similar stuff.
Gee...
Politics, eh? All of it... The difference being that the discourse isn't toxic. I wish you, and others (even me) would write more about this stuff, since I think we could all support each other in it. The technical stuff sounds interesting, too... Really interesting...
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Maybe all politics is local
but anything you want to do locally is going to be political. Not in the sense of "Yay for our team!" or a government of national unity ponies, but in the sense that you have to educate and persuade and trade-off effort for things you care about for things other people care about.
It's never so much about caving in or compromising as it is about finding ways to make things mutually beneficial.
Any photos of what your wife does with the recylced bottles?
Sound very interestesting and cool.
Sales?
Aah!
When I get the new site up, members will be able to sell things. Like those bottles. Working on that module now, it's the last thing... Before putting it up and having you guys break it....
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Glass photos
Here's some vases and a bowl, some blue glass and some green glass.
The pictures are a little misleading for the colored glass. If you look at the finish on the rims for the clear glass in the vases and bowl, the colored glasses look the same "in person". They reflect kind of poorly in the photos - they're a very smooth kind of matte finish.
They're also a little overexposed in the bright areas - the table, for instance, is much darker than it appears in the photos.
Thank you!
Lovely!
do want!
the only question is which do i want more, the blue glasses or the green glasses? seriously, are you planning to sell them?
Yeah - my wife sells glassware
They're in a restaurant, at a few wineries, in a couple local stores - there's a much bigger selection than those three pictures. My juice glass in the morning used to be a beer bottle.
The prices aren't bad - about $4/glass and up (up is mostly for the vases, bowls and maybe slightly up for the blue glass, which is harder to come by and often scratched). Plus UPS shipping - we don't mark that up - $5 to $10 usually depending on weight and distance for ground.
Here's a bigger selection. There are a couple shades of green, blue, an amber towards the back, and clear. You should think about whether you mind the "punts" or not (the inward bump in the bottom of the bottle which is supposed to allow sediment to settle around the outside). In the green and amber - mostly wine bottles - most have a punt, but not all (some olive oil bottles, for example). Blue is sometimes wine bottles, but more often vodka.
I'm not sure if there's much left to sell at the moment. Production is outdoors (water and glass dust), and it's cold today and the snow is down to about 500 feet above us, so production may be dead until spring.
I'll ask my wife what's available in the AM and find you somewhere here and let you know.
In general agreement
Electoral politics is not where it's at, at least until fundamental systemic changes are made.
But...because of our mass media, it has the potential to set wider trends, and that cannot be discounted.
A lie, sometimes, is good for the soul
What Gibbs says, right at the end of this clip, summed up this election for me. (Note: the dark-haired girl is McGee's sister, and McGee is the Boy Scout's Boy Scout regarding honesty. The blonde being hauled away framed the sister for murdering the other blonde's boyfriend.)
But then again, it's only a lie if we don't make it come true. Making it come true starts now, boys and girls.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
I voted McCain and I'm goddamn glad I did.
A candidate for President does NOT get to treat me like a piece of shit during the electoral process and still get my vote.
Period.
"You'd better get this straight. Wise up before it's too late." -- Sister Sledge
JFK has been shot, we miss him a lot
He always knew what to do
-- Philly Cream
Randall Kohn, have a nice pity party.
Obviously, your vote made you so happy you now have to curse about it for the admiration of all your fellows.
McCain didn't personally insult me. Neither did Obama.
McCain did, however, show me -- actions speak so much louder than words -- exactly what he thought of women.
Seemed like pretty disrespectful treatment to me.
I voted in accord.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
oh, please--from "claws coming out"
to "periodically, when she's feeling down" to "consult her pastor" to "women feeling blue are getting abortions" and "99 problems but a bitch ain't one" and the middle finger and brushing shit off his shoulder, etc.
if you weren't personally insulted, that's fine--don't dismiss other people's take on all these things and many more--about many other groups in addition to women.
Then you voted as you should have, and so did I.
Not in the market for pity - or dumb snark.
"You'd better get this straight. Wise up before it's too late." -- Sister Sledge
JFK has been shot, we miss him a lot
He always knew what to do
-- Philly Cream
Good luck with that free-market vote, Randall Kohn
and if you do turn out to be on the winning side, I sure hope you have a plan for making the future better than the last 8 years have been.
I've outlined mine repeatedly.
Never let up. Don't just vote and call it good.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
One foot in front of the other, that's the plan.
And no, I didn't call it good. The choice was very bad vs. even worse, and I took my best shot.
As did we all.
"You'd better get this straight. Wise up before it's too late." -- Sister Sledge
JFK has been shot, we miss him a lot
He always knew what to do
-- Philly Cream
Dupe
Self-delete.
JFK has been shot, we miss him a lot
He always knew what to do
-- Philly Cream
What about a win?
You can vote for whom you want, but you seriously believe that you’re going to be allowed to take the helm if Obama loses?
What's your viable plan for taking the helm when Obama wins? That's really my question for anyone who voted for Obama. How do you expect to make sure he takes the progressive route?
I've been holding his feet to the fire for the last 2 years and believe me when I say - he doesn't care at all about what his constituents think or he'd be voting way more liberally than he does.
Don't make accusations that my vote does nothing. It does the same thing that your vote for Obama does (well, in your case your concern trolling for an Obama vote). It means I voted in the general election for a candidate for president. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Exactly
Like Obama cares that you have to hold your nose to vote for him? Like that will have an impact on him? If it's as close as it may turn out to be, Obama (just like W) will spin a 2% victory into a mandate...
Considering his primary loss
Turned into a mandate, I think that is a fair assumption.
Oh, and I voted for ALL women running this year. I don't know if they will win, but maybe it will help us approach a 30% solution.
No helm
I don't believe that any helm will be taken either way. All I know is that rejecting Obama means throwing out the very tiny baby with the huge amount of bathwater, for a set of rather incoherent hypothetical strategies that has next to no chance of success due to the misconceptions of its followers.
I'll keep that very tiny baby.
Julene, are you from IL? And tried to make an impact by writing,
phoning?
So
Your first post didn't go the direction you wanted it to, Mandos, so you restart the entire thing in another new blog posting?
Stay classy, Mandos. The pony is in the mail. Actually, if you're not a citizen, you'll just have to bask in the glow of Obama. And, thanks for running interference in our election.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
Why do you think so?
The first post went exactly the way I wanted and expected it it to, and I started another post to follow it up.
Second,
http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/faq
To be more clear
The point of the first post was to lay out that I recognize that Obama has numerous flaws, but that I think that even the most monumental ones need to be overlooked at the ballot box.
This post is complementary to that. Let's say that people don't overlook Obama's flaws. Then what?
I will just learn to repeat "Get over it"
to everybody
You do that n/t
n/t
It worked so well for others n/t
n/t