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NC/IN primary wrap-up

Well, I envy, and don't envy, those of you who went to bed early. You got some sleep, and I'm sitting here typing and drinking cheap red wine. You also missed an amazing story; check the updates in this post (reading bottom to top). I had the feeling, whether justified or not, of immense forces moving unseen, while "the whole world [was] watching" all that we could see: screens full of numbers on pastel-colored maps, numbers that stayed static, then suddenly changed, all over the country, galvanizing people into action, posting, shouting, phoning, pleading, threatening, asking. Even poor, old, uncreative, racist C-list bloggers.

I'll wait 'til later today to post more, but more now, I hope she doesn't quit. The Gary count had a pretty bad odor. And Obama, by "apparent" victory, seemed to have smelt that taint. And speaking of tainted victories, Donna Brazile can lek my ass.

* * *

UPDATE 1:14 AM MSOBAMA calls for Hillary:

msnbc

And FUX:

fox

WTF? I'm guessing the nuclear option was not, like, actually counting the votes, but the TX caucus affidavits. It's always nice to have leverage, especially when dealing with thoroughly unprincipled people.

* * *

UPDATE 12:45 AM Water torture:

gary_3

I think I'm going to pour myself a glass of cheap red wine. It would be pretty funny if the nuns, Guam, disenfranchising MI/FL, and cross-over Republicans in the open primaries gave Obama the nomination.

1:01 AM Still 57%.

* * *

UPDATE 11:59 Here we go:

gary_2

Via TalkLeft, WaPo

[Obama supporter Mayor Clay said the results were late coming in from Lake County because of the large numbers of absentee ballots that had to be counted -- about 11,000. Under local practice, all of the cartridges from voting machines in Gary and nearby East Chicago are first collected at the local airport before being driven to the county headquarters to be tallied with the results from the rest of the county, he said. He said there were no major technical problems holding up the count.

That's reassuring, that airport run. Why do they do that?

It takes a little time. We want to be sure that every vote is counted fair and right," he said. "I just talked to the director out there and they are working like junkyard dogs to get that done as soon as possible. They are taking some time but I told them to do it right. That's what taking the time."

Of course, all my "get over it" alarm bells are going off; then again, the OFB went nuts after NH and NV, and nothing came of it. So...

12:21 AM Still 28%.

12:39 AM Still 28%.

* * *

lake UPDATE 11:25 PM IN H 51.8 - 0 48.2 = 3.6 (87% reporting but 0% in fucking Gary From RD: He Kerry got 188,000 votes in Lake county in 2004. Right now Hillary is leading by less than 100K. This "apparent" victory could be a problem. (Also Union County 0%.)

And since I've already seen a doctored video, I'd expect to see other dirty tricks. Eh?

12:08AM Holding at 28%. The whole whole IN voting system is a mess, says BradBlog. Republcans are purging the voter roles and the machines suck. Nothing specific on Lake County, however.

* * *

The roller-coaster ride continues. Anybody listening to Hillary's victory [?] speech in IN? How do you feel about the day?

I assume that the usual suspects are flinging feces and beating their chests, but beyond that?

Oh, and "apparently" Brazile really besmirched Obama's NC victory by saying that the Democrat Party doesn't need or want white working-class people and Latinos, but we don't have the complete transcript, though we do have witnesses and, hopefully, YouTubes. Anybody got one?

UPDATE Obama drones on about a victory over the "politics of division." I imagine that would explain why he's not campaigning in WV or KY, and why Donna Brazile thinks that white working class and older voters don't count. It's Orwellian. I thought we were going to be done with Orwell this year.

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vastleft's picture
Submitted by vastleft on

Sorry, but I've never once found myself inspired by one of Obama's speeches. He just seems so chilly and detached. I don't get it.

But this one really lifted my spirits! Even Tweety calls it "charming."

koshembos's picture
Submitted by koshembos on

She rejects me; I'll go and find someone else.

Does she need Hispanics, Asians, Hillary supporters? Does she think that King Obama will be coroneted by the Supremes?

Can we vote in Canada?

KoshemBos

Mandos's picture
Submitted by Mandos on

Basically, I rarely pick a candidate who wins. Therefore, the fact that I prefer Clinton to Obama is probably hurting Clinton's chances.

jeqal's picture
Submitted by jeqal on

I too rarely pick a candidate that wins, for what it's worth I'll probably go with McCain so at least the Dems will win the election.

I too have tried holding my nose....this is why I love the smurfs. Smurfy!

Ok....I watched some of MSNBC and after almost having an apoplexy (forgot MSNBC was pro-Obama), this was after listening to NPR (another gleeful Obama booster), I was pretty depressed. Luckily I switched to FoxNews and that was less awful, but they had to use the woman I can't stand from there who is transparently anti-Hill *sigh*, finally flipped to the Bruce Willis flick the 6th Sense and watched that while switching back and forth until Glenn Beck came on.
(I don't have a TV so this was fun to do /notmyhouse/)
I like Beck anyhow, not gushingly so, but at any rate Beck had a guy who wrote a book called "Liberal Fascism" on his show. This dude, was talking about how screwed up both the right and the left are. There extremist views has kept the government from working effectively. He analyzed their positions and how it has hampered a government that is able to work for the average American. It is more geared towards helping the wealthy and the fringe groups. I will look for a transcript of this but not tonight, I am on the fringe of tears, and don't have the heart for searching.

Sunday Beck had Ben Stein on his show, who said that there are lobbyists for the monied and for the poor but no one for the middle class. (which made the "Liberal Facism" author's statement more memorable for me.
There is no political machine that can help the middle class because they are not represented. Stein said that economically McCain would be a disaster, Hill a double disaster, and Obama would be a quadruple disaster to the Middle class.
Stein didn't go into details, but with the exception of Hill being worse than McCain, I agree with him.
It's frustrating. Eventually there will be no middle america money to toss around for aid and welfare and to help anyone but them, there will be no middle america children who go to war for the US and who have a working ethic.

Then what?

This is what American Politics has geared itself for. It has geared towards it in books, the media, political chastisement, even in churches: The destruction of Middle America.

Now what?

I wish I could think of a bright side, I suppose the bright side is that in "Candy Mountain" Charlie survived even if he didn't have a kidney anymore.

Oh and the smurf cartoons are coming out on DVD. Smurf that.

"The great divide in this country is not by race or even income, it's by those who think they are better than everyone else and think they should play by a different set of rules," --Bill Clinton

white_n_az's picture
Submitted by white_n_az on

The Page (Time) received the same transcript that was sent to Jeralyn @ TalkLeft

CNN obviously knows that they have a transcript that is explosive and they're holding back for the moment

Submitted by lambert on

At that point, we need to go to the TiVo, and make damn sure the provenance is unimpeachable after the OFB faked the "War Room" video.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

Clinton's campaign believes that she held her own in Lake County outside Gary. Some speculation that Gary was deliberately holding votes back to delay Clinton's speech. Now that sounds like the Obama campaign I've come to know and loath.

BIO, since you seem to have actual sources, does this crap that Brazile, Axelrod, et al, spew about white working class voters upset any of the Dem. leaders or do they agree and want to try to build some sort of "new Democratic" party.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

what's the choice? staying home or going McCain ensures his victory and 4 more yrs of Bushish horrors.

and we've held our noses before--plenty of times, sadly.

Submitted by lambert on

Words matter....

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

tedraicer's picture
Submitted by tedraicer on

And bitter in a way I've never been in 32 years of political involvement. It seems almost certain now Obama will be the nominee, and I really do despise him and his cult. As far as I'm concerned he is the Democratic version of George W. Bush, and for the first time in my life I find myself not really caring who wins in the fall. Yes, McCain will probably be worse in the short run, but I think a President Obama could actually be worse in the long run.

The old angry Wingnut or the shallow narcissitic fake progressive? I don't find much to choose from there, so at least I'm grateful electoral geography means I won't have to pull the lever for either in November. (If Obama can't win NY without my help, he isn't going anywhere anyway.)

Tdraicer

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

that by restricting the voter bloc conversations to almost entirely white working class voters and African Americans they help Obama and influence SuperDelegates and keep the media focused on racism (or think they do).

Talking about women, seniors, most minorities, all working class people, etc, doesn't help him at all and would remind everyone of his weaknesses...

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

So far cutting her lead in half. If he holds his current rate, he'll catch up. Apparently Gary officials have told different stories about why it's taking so long. The Clinton campaign is reportedly suspicious of the delay.

I've said it once, I've said it again, if Obama steals this election, I will not vote for him in the Fall even if that leads to McCain. It's the one absolute deal breaker for me.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

Submitted by katiebird (not verified) on

So my vote (for President) is purely symbolic. That being the case, a hold-the-nose vote is of questionable value.

I've ALWAYS done it when required -- but I'm NOT doing it again.

If I moved to a swing state, that might change the situation. But as it is, there is little risk that my vote (for President) will matter to anyone but me.

That being the case, I'm NOT holding my nose for that again.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

the popular vote matters no matter what state it's from, i've always believed. Most voters believe that, i think--that's one big reason why FL 2000 was so shocking.

And i don't see how McCain gets an enormous turnout from the religious right part of the GOP base--his vote counts may be lower than usual if they stay home.

Linda's picture
Submitted by Linda on

Hillary has shown me so much this primary season. She has been called every horrible name in the book. She as been accused of the vilest things. But, she stands up and keeps going. The least I can do is stand up with her.

I am disgusted with Dem party though. Their missing back bone is so glaring now it is blinding. I don't trust them at all.

I'm going to donate to Hillary now.

Violet Socks's picture
Submitted by Violet Socks on

I'm sure of it. The thing is fixed.

They've been waiting in Gary to feed in whatever number of votes were required.

If this goes through, I'm done with the Democratic party forever.

Submitted by katiebird (not verified) on

Amber, you see? I do matter. And I'm not being held hostage by my good faith anymore.

This race would never have seemed inevitably Obama's if FLorida and MIchigan hadn't been excluded by the DNC delegate totals. It's been a shame from the beginning.

Hillary's been incredibly gracious. But, I'm not voting for a thief.

Especially not one who's hiding at least 3 major scandals.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

that's why so many establishment Dems are for Obama i think--he won't ever force them to really do things or fight them if they cave.

katie, i'm with you, but i have to vote AGAINST the GOP, even if i'm not voting FOR our candidate.

Submitted by katiebird (not verified) on

I'm not voting for McCain either. (there's no way my fingers are strong enough to hold my nose through that)

Submitted by katiebird (not verified) on

I'm with you, Violet.

tedraicer's picture
Submitted by tedraicer on

Absent a miracle, I no longer have a horse in this race. So I'm just going to ignore politics for the next 4 or 8 or however many years until there is an actual Democrat to care about. I've enjoyed this site the last few months, and I wish you all the best.

Bye!

Tdraicer

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

Says that other Lake County cities turned in their vote totals early, but they didn't report them. The delay appears to be solely caused by Gary.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

to help the anti-Hillary:

--persuaded Obama to run this time (he had told Russert he wouldn't)

--didn't lift a finger to resolve FL or MI til it was too late.

--overwhelmingly supported and/or endorsed Obama

--now this in Gary to end it all?

trishb's picture
Submitted by trishb on

Do the results tonight change anything? I still don't see any reason for Hillary to cash it in, but I do foresee the WWTSBQ watch going into high gear.

Linda's picture
Submitted by Linda on

That is the Dem party. I will not vote for Obama. I just won't. They're terrified of fighting. Kerry didn't even fight when there was all that voter trouble in Ohio in 2004. I waited 2 hours to vote for him and he folded like a lawn chair as they say. Obama gets the nod that's it. Leave it to the Dems to screw up the easiest thing. They haven't done a damn thing since 2006. People are literally dying from their spinelessness. Iraq, Katrina. Children without health care. Bush was a huge problem but it was complimented by our lily livered Dems. We're all New Orleans now. We have been for a while we just kept hoping it would turn around.

RedQueen's picture
Submitted by RedQueen on

I'll write in Hillary or vote for Cynthia McKinney- but there is not a clothespin strong enough to get me to hold my nose and vote for Obama.

If it votes like a Republican and passes bills like a Republican and signs Executive Orders like a Republican then is must be...................a Democrat

Davidson's picture
Submitted by Davidson on

He did say "apparent" win. When I saw Obama say that, I even had a brief flash of George W. being so damn calm after FL had been "called" for Gore. Dubya knew.

Violet Socks's picture
Submitted by Violet Socks on

Very curious that from the beginning the networks refused to call IN for Hillary. Gotta wait for Gary. The whole state's coming in but no, gotta wait for Gary.

Hmmm.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

there must be truly decent Dems in your counties or states--focus on those then, and vote for them in Nov (and then just coincidentally for our nominee)

Violet Socks's picture
Submitted by Violet Socks on

I believe the fix has been at least since that meeting with donors last week. The closed-door session. Barry's got big money backing him, and they're not happy about seeing it go down the drain. They didn't expect him to turn out to be such a dud who can't win an election honestly, but hey, you pay your money and you take your ride. So they had to bring the fixers in.

Submitted by lambert on

I went to bed at like 4AM thinking Stephanie Cutter had said they would challenge the results; got up the next morning and Kerry had caved. And then the healing process began. Just kidding.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

--that's what this reminds me of.

oops--you beat me to it, Lambert.

Kiki whoever on CNN said she has an "awkward relationship with some in the party" -- sure she does--they don't want her to be the nominee.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

although I think it speaks volumes that I could easily believe that of the Obama campaign.

Obama better hope this doesn't end up looking as fishy as it does right now. If it does, McCain will be president. No way anyone could unify the party if half of it thinks the election was stolen.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

Submitted by lambert on

Why does "local practice" take them to the airport?

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

All of her morning show appearances tomorrow (this is second hand from a commenter at Talk Left who heard it on FUX).

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

they just need a private place to jigger the numbers.

Obama was gonna lose at least 3 of the upcoming ones--some by big numbers. They can't afford to see their pick weakened even more, i guess.

Becki Jayne's picture
Submitted by Becki Jayne on

I'm with Katiebird. I've "sacrificed" my vote enough. No way I'll vote for McCain and no way will I vote for Obama. I also live in a solid red state that is Bush country. I "cling" to my blue county in a sea of red. The best I will do is vote for local, state, congressional Democrats but they will have to win my vote.

Hillary will continue. But OMG! The shrieking from the Obamasphere that will ensue.

Note: Get ear plugs.

Davidson's picture
Submitted by Davidson on

To wait so late until you report any results is ridiculously absurd! Let's see: Gary waited until they figured out what margin Obama needed to "win" by and then fixed it for him. The Democrats and media will likely roll over for this blatant stealing but it will destroy us in the GE--and for the long-term. The GOP will point to this (if we let it stand) as cover to get away with murder during future elections.

I'm in utter shock about all of this. Clinton was going from strength to strength since PA: SUSA polls for IN, NC; national polls; she radiated confidence, etc.. No way should this have happened (Just yesterday, SUSA had her winning IN by 12!). This is insane.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

--that's why they're ending it tonight--they know he's coming off as weaker and weaker as this goes on.

and then if he loses in Nov, they'll blame her for weakening him during the primaries i bet.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

as the precincts roll in. At 80% results I fall asleep, I wake up and suddenly it's a nailbiter.

This stinks.

BTW You can check county results on CNN, Lake Co. shows 75/25 for Obama, which is the biggest percentage margin for either candidate in any county in the state.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

x

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

--he couldn't close the deal or win over her voters or anything.

And all the talk had been about her "stealing" it too.

i wonder if the recent stuff about the GOP using him in ads and deciding he'd be easier to beat panicked people?

Submitted by lambert on

How does somebody weak muscle you?

Thing is, though, he is weak. Demographics are destiny, as BTD keeps saying...

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

and he evaded totally John King's questions about why it was 0% all night.

even Wolf's not buying the mayor's bs--we'll see if the spin on this changes overnight.

Submitted by lambert on

At the very least we can set the record straight.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

may be happening", he just said. and "it looks improper"

it's on now live on CNN, lambert...i'll get the transcript when CNN puts it up--if they do.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

Is unable to answer why reporting the votes is taking so long. He says it's the absentees but cannot explain why the other ballots weren't released earlier.

He's making it look worse.

The Mayor of Hammond says they knew what the machine votes in other cities were at 7:30. It's midnight and we don't have any information and it looks bad. This looks improper. I'm not saying it is, but it looks. We don't need this kind of negative exposure in Lake County. He's telling the Mayor of Gary to release the numbers.

Here's a question, why does the Mayor of Gary have the ability to hold the votes.

Now the Mayor of Hammond is trying to get the Mayor of Gary to tell why he hasn't released the machine votes. Mayor of Gary says it's absentee counting. Mayor of Hammond is grilling him. Has no answer why it is taking so long to count the vote.

Now they're reporting 98% of the vote in Lake County, Clinton still leads by 22,000 votes with 99% of the state reporting.

So maybe it's not fraud, the Mayor is just an idiot. Or else it is fraud, they realized they were going to get caught and stopped it.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

X

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

x

------------------------------------------------
“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Becki Jayne's picture
Submitted by Becki Jayne on

Finally CNN projected Hillary wins at 51%.

Why do i get the feeling the Daley machine is involved in the Gary delay?

Incitatus's picture
Submitted by Incitatus on

...but the incentive to cheat at this stage is pretty slim. It's not as if it makes a difference whether Obama loses this IN by 1 pt or wins it by 1 pt. OH, FL or any other GE nail-biter this aint. Hillary couldn't cancel out Barry's NC win today, and that's a problem for her, whether she takes IN by a hair or otherwise. Not a completely insurmountable problem, but one that will seriously offset her recent gains.

I think people are somewhat underestimating the candidates here. They are fighting tough because that's how it's done. We'll see what happens, but I doubt there will be any bad blood between Hillary and Obama. If she can stay in, she may as well keep on trucking, because as far as I'm concerned the more airtime going to Dems at the expense of the Rep nominee the better. And hell, if the stubborn bitch can snatch this one out of the jaws of defeat, I'll canvas the whole county of St. Louis for her until my feet are worn down to the kneecaps come November.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

They were holding Gary back to keep the mainstream media from calling Indiana until after 1 a.m. eastern time. If they had reported all of the voting machine results, the absentees would not have been enough to keep the networks from calling it.

It would explain why the Mayor couldn't explain the delay.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

He kept trying to blame hand-counted absentee votes for the lack of machine tallied results.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

x

------------------------------------------------
“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Davidson's picture
Submitted by Davidson on

BDB writes: Or else it is fraud, they realized they were going to get caught and stopped it.

The damage has been done. Clinton was supposed to win IN by, at least, 8 (according to demographics). Now it looks as if she's hanging on by the slimmest of threads while the media spins NC as an Obama triumph.

Does anyone else think she'll concede tomorrow? She looked a bit stunned tonight (I don't blame her). God, I hope she fights the nonsense that happened in IN, but perhaps the SDs told her that it's over and they're going with the Sure Thing: a landslide loss to McCain.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

until about 3 weeks ago.

And she was supposed to lose NC by 20+ too.

There is a lot of incentive to cheat, but not enough Obama voters in the graveyard.

BTW - Lake County and Gary are the closest points to Chicago.

Prolly just coinkydink.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

x

------------------------------------------------
“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

showed different.

Of course her campaign was counting real voters, not dead ones.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

x

------------------------------------------------
“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

Occam's razor. The Gary Mayor has no explanation for the delay. When the first Lake County votes are announced, they are the ones from Gary that dramatically cuts Clinton's lead in half. Thus, ensuring no call will be made. Obama gets an entire night of the media swooning over his unimpressive NC win.

I say unimpressive because he made no real gains among white voters.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

LostClown's picture
Submitted by LostClown on

Though I do think she will challenge TX and I hope they challenge Lake County. I'm sensing Chicago style politics, and though I'm fond of joking about my hometown's corruption, I'm not happy when it happens.

Though perhaps we'll see the Dems trying to steal the election in Nov? Wouldn't that be a bizarre twist.

happily immune to all religious indoctrination

“I do not think that word means what you think it means"

My etsy shop

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

the 11pm news in California would be 2am, no?

she might have to drop out tomorrow if the supers and her money people tell her to.

and who's to say the numbers weren't tweaked all over IN to take away a big win for her?

Incitatus's picture
Submitted by Incitatus on

Davidson, "Does anyone else think she’ll concede tomorrow?"
The fact that a hefty number of SDs have remained on the fences this long has generally been a good sign for Hillary. I think many have been waiting for "the moment" to feel comfortable backing her. That moment probably didn't come today, but... well, who knows?

Submitted by lambert on

You mean they'd rather not "put her away" now, as opposed to letting her stomp Obama in two states where Mr. Unity isn't even campaigning because he's written them off?

You mean they'd rather not have all her money dry up?

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

The morning papers will all say Obama won, not sure about Hillary

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

x

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Violet Socks's picture
Submitted by Violet Socks on

the stubborn bitch

Goddamn, that pisses me off.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

that they wanted to cheat (and/or did cheat) but the real margin for Hillary was too much to overcome.

This was much closer than most credible polls suggested it would be.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

x

------------------------------------------------
“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Becki Jayne's picture
Submitted by Becki Jayne on

usually on the press by 1 a.m. speaking as a former escapee of a major daily. So BO hogs the headlines.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

"And hell, if the stubborn bitch can snatch this one out of the jaws of defeat, I’ll canvas the whole county of St. Louis for her until my feet are worn down to the kneecaps come November.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

x

------------------------------------------------
“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Becki Jayne's picture
Submitted by Becki Jayne on

out fraud especially with the Obamas connections to the Daley machine.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

I'd use another expression but it's sexist and I feel guilty for even thinking about it.

I'm going to punish myself with cheap beer.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

x

------------------------------------------------
“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

i don't buy it--a tv reason would make sense, but they could have released half or more of the county numbers earlier and just held back some of it--they held back all of it til late.

Holding back just 1/2 would have kept it up in the air for headlines, and looked better too.

i guess your reason makes sense tho--but why is it that automatically the world suspects the worst from her alone? i want to suspect the worst from both, or neither.

Incitatus's picture
Submitted by Incitatus on

All of that was already on the table (unless she could have stomped a little harder on Obama's lead in NC). Is team Obama really going to risk their candidate's entire political care just to stop this thing dragging on a little longer? I don't buy it.

Come on. Every close election comes down to electoral fraud. Even when it doesn't.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

the two states he needed to put her away. Or how about how he can't win the white vote.

Nah, this proves the Wright thing has been put to rest. Just like his speech did. Never mind that he lost 60% of the white vote in Indiana, including white men 58-42, or that he lost 61% of the white vote in North Carolina, including 55-42.

I sure hope the SDs can read an exit poll, but I'm pessimistic. Tonight changed nothing and Clinton is running out of time. The party seems hell bent on marching off a cliff with Obama.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

Incitatus's picture
Submitted by Incitatus on

I take that back. I was appealing to my own stereotype, is all.

She is stubborn though. But she wouldn't be out there if she wasn't, so I don't consider that a negative.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

thanks for taking it back-- it's totally insulting and sexist even when meant well.

I consider Tina Fey's use of it on tv as the one catchall use of it that meant no one else needed to anymore.

Submitted by lambert on

... calling out the mayor of Gary, an Obama supporter, on national TV, about why the count gets stuck at 0% for hours, and the mayor of Gary can't explain it. I'm not charging fraud, but I am saying that it looks bad, and that people should ask questions. The mayor of Gary should be prepared to answer them. He should also be prepared to explain why it is necessary to consolidate all the voting machine cartridges at the airport (!), and what measures are taken to secure them. All these questions should be easy to answer.

Now, I am well aware that the OFB discredited themselves and their candidate after NH and NV by propagating baseless charges against Hillary, all of which came to nothing. However, it is also true that in NH, the consolidation of the voting machine cartridges in a single location -- which is a single point of failure for an attack -- does not happen. So, where there was never any structural basis for questioning NH, except for numbers people thought were funny but were noisy, here, there is, combined with a process that, to a mind not entirely naive, suggests holding back results.

So, the questions should be asked, and the Mayor of Gary should answer them. If the whole thing is on the up-and-up, then the questions should be easy to answer.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Davidson's picture
Submitted by Davidson on

As far as I can see, it's all about how decisive this was and what everyone points to is the margins (popular vote count). Exactly. This is why IN just doesn't seem right. Both Clintons came out swinging in NC because they were certain IN was in the bag, most likely by double digits. She went from a strong favorite to barely coming out alive.

Blerg!

Incitatus's picture
Submitted by Incitatus on

We will see what is provided by way of explanation.

Submitted by lambert on

... affected matters. Remember the nuns? As RD, too tired to post the link, said the other day, women disporportionately don't have the kind of documentation required.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

MSNBC is saying, and then joking about how we won't get a gas tax holiday...

ugh....

Submitted by lambert on

Apparently, the OFB zealously propagated it over all the boards.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

don't watch him -- seriously.

at least Chris Matthews is pathetically funny.

all of us in the middle class have been hurting, and sliding backwards, since the 70s they say. and neither party will allow a real fighter anymore--and elections are all about who can raise millions and not scare powerful interests--and congress lets lobbyists write laws now--it's awful.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

the best ones for Obama?

He still had a huge lead until after 1am, then the other half came in and suddenly his margin shrunk.

I hope they do some follow-up on that. Why would you have them bring the cartidges anywhere except where they are to be counted? That makes no sense at all.

Not to mention that othe parts of Lake county had been tallied, but those results weren't released either.

Strangely (or maybe not) all the late reporting counties except one were Obama strongholds, and the exception was a small rural county in another part of the state.

Something stinks, and this time it wasn't me.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

x

------------------------------------------------
“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

That was a special condition of my parole.

------------------------------------------------
Real ponies don't oink- Patrick McManus

x

------------------------------------------------
“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Submitted by cg.eye on

The people who I trust about their posts on blogs have looked at Liberal Fascism, and they know it is a smear on the whole idea of effective liberal policy. It calls FDR a Nazi. MLK, fascist. Do you get my drift?

This book is nothing new. Google "Orcinus" and "Liberal Fascism" and see what's said.

I'll just take it on faith that you're tired, and that you aren't trying to slip in the idea that somehow liberals are fascists, so that's why you'll vote for McCain.

You have been so hard left, and now to turn 180 degrees like this... it's as if your work was done.

I know you're near tears, but your folks did not raise a fool. So don't be one.

Submitted by cg.eye on

is now invitation only.

She must have got hit hard tonight.

I hope she's getting her rest, too. She's always been on the side of the underdog, no matter whether the terms working class, middle class, poor, struggling or making do are used.

FrenchDoc's picture
Submitted by FrenchDoc on

1. Mess with HRC's supporters' minds

2. Try (and fail) at some run-of-the-mill cheating

3. Delay as long as possible a call of Indiana for HRC

4. Delay contributions that normally follow a win

5. Push SDs over the fence to BO's side

I have been monitoring HRC's website all evening, and there is nothing indicating a suspension of campaign.

I think my point 1 worked very well: these results were exactly what was expected after all. Actually, it's pretty bad news for BO. His base is young voters and AAs and that's it. Can't win that way.

Heck, even BTD at TalkLeft took back his electability argument tonight.

And yet, we all feel like we just took a beating.

FrenchDoc's picture
Submitted by FrenchDoc on

that the collusion of the DNC, the Obama campaign and the media was never clearer than tonight.

All in all, a pretty pathetic spectacle.

Submitted by lambert on

Because that's an excellent take.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

LostClown's picture
Submitted by LostClown on

one take home physics midterm due tomorrow morning that I couldn't even look at all afternoon b/c I was continually clicking on the refresh button (as I know you understand.)

happily immune to all religious indoctrination

“I do not think that word means what you think it means"

My etsy shop

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

it's already disappeared as news, sadly--never even really became news at all.

Submitted by Paul_Lukasiak on

its just that i want to be comment #100 in this thread.

murphy's picture
Submitted by murphy on

They couldnt steal Indiana, even though it seems they tried every trick in the book, short of outright ballot destruction (and they may have tried that too).

She cut his expected margin in NC by HALF in less than 14 days!

She does what she always does -- beat expectations by working hard and being competent.

Rules for a Bad Day
1. Dont turn on the TV
2. Dont go to other blogs (other than the good ones)
3. Dont read MSM opinions or ANALysis
4. Don't worry
5. Send money even if it's only 10 bucks

She's going to win next week big and she's not giving up. He stinks. His tactics, his people, his ideas. He just plain stinks. And she doesnt.
Don't forget that we're backing the real winner, even if she loses.

jeqal's picture
Submitted by jeqal on

In a hurry I grabbed the first two book on tape (bot) cassettes to play in my car so that I could pretend no one but me exists in the world. No I didn't look at the titles (check out at library), just saw the first two that were the media I needed for my car.

um.... Embracing the Light ....
about a woman without a High School diploma who 6 children and 2 husbands later...raised by nuns....has a hysterectomy.....(why do I think karma is paying me back for a past life GDpastlives)....dies......has out of death experience....WRITES A BEST SELLING BOOK that is made into an UNABRIDGED audiocassette that I'm listening to READ BY THE no highschool diploma AUTHOR (all right if I was skeptical about god before now I am an avowed atheist).........
*sigh*
~listens~ "and I saw my body and I wasn't afraid, then I met two men in white robes by the gate...." ok fast forward ziiiiiiiiiiii-ziiiiiiiiiiiiiii- "I knew then that all religions are the same, it's just that they are all......" ziiiiiiiiiiiiiii-ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii- "we are just learning on earth, in the religion that we need to learn from, what we need to learn" ACK FF ziiiiiiiiiiii-ziiiiiiiiiiiiii-ziiiiiiiii
"and I knew then that energy surrounds everyone and that...." ACK! FF *ziiiiiiiiiii-ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Ok grab tape, swerve in traffic, take eyes off road, read back cover "1993" ...ok well that makes me feel better....skip around jacket and read...yes it does say "bestselling author".... obviously peoples taste in books 1993 have switched to peoples tastes in politicians 2008...let's now according to the media people don't read so....that means (quick mental math...so 15 years from now there will be NO POLITICIANS)(YAY! no candy mountain!)
fast forward *ziiiiip--ziiiii--zziiii* "and was revealed that Jesus was separate from god" *ziiiiip--ziiiii--zziiii*
Soon I will be able to say I read the book ... FF ziiiiiiiiiiii ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ziiiiiiiiii
I feel oddly better. unless no politicians means No COUNTRY.

STOP.

NPR comes on (default radio station) and now a speech by Senator Obama... drat no fast forward

*sigh*

pop tape back in

Dear Journal:
I am being karmically crucified.

What type of prayer can an agnostic make...well I do believe in energy so... will send this out on multiple energy waves.
SOS Tape continues to play while I mentally tune out...
I find my finger occassionally pressing the fast forward button, and the solemn click as it goes to side two.

Will go to correntewire first chance I get to plug-in laptop.

Commiseration is good.
I switch to next tape, and FF a bit before letting it play...the voice is just background noise, I imagine that she is channelling MO....daydreaming...

Next time I'll read what I am checking out

Fuck Karma Fate and Faygo...well not faygo Bluemist is too good with grey goose......
While I daydream I imagine myself finding rose colored glasses wearing them I find a gold tablet and on that tablet is written, in really bad german, which can be called...."aliens speaking to me after I translated the tablet"...about a new Utopia for women and there will be 5 husbands, and 5 tasks...and.....

*click*

I pop in last tape *ziiiiiiiiiiii___ziiiiiiiii*

~finis~

Newsflash: Hillary fans are snatched up by alien spacecraft after primaries, news at 11.

"The great divide in this country is not by race or even income, it's by those who think they are better than everyone else and think they should play by a different set of rules," --Bill Clinton

markg8's picture
Submitted by markg8 on

This is gonna be a long post but it'll give you some insight into what I saw and heard from others within what I'm sure most of you consider the "enemy" camp. I'm not gloating or spinning just providing facts as I saw them.

I spent Saturday in Lafayette (Tippicanoe County, Purdue Univ.) with about 30 other volunteers organized and caravaned by a suburban Chicago IL, congressional campaign. We met up at a local McDonalds at 6am and arrived in Lafayette about 10am local time. Of the 30, except for paid staffers all but 3 were well over 40 years old, most were older than my 52 years, all but 2 were white and at least two thirds were women. The kind of voters and activists the teevee keeps assuring me Obama doesn't attract. Maybe it's just an Illinois thing but judging from what I saw in Indiana I doubt it. The mix of locals there was about the same.

We had plenty of people willing to drive their own cars and pay for their own gas. I teamed up with a 68 year old woman from Naperville who was kind enough to let me ride along with her. We had a great time exchanging stories on the way down. We were fast friends by the time we got to Lafayette. She was so nice she even sprang for dinner in downtown Lafayette afterward. I owe her a five hour car ride and a great dinner.

We got to the campaign HQ on 4th St. about 10am Indiana time. The office as expected was bustling with activity. They run a very efficient organization and were ready for us. With a minimum of fanfare or clustef*ck we checked in, lined up for our precinct packets, grabbed stacks of 4 different pieces of lit and headed out the door.

Joan has GPS in her car so finding our two precincts a few miles away was easy enough. We took the advice of another middle aged guy from Sheboygan WI who was parked in front of us and worked them together. Good thing too as some of these houses were 25 or 30 steps straight up to the front door and by late afternoon poor Joan was shivering and couldn't hike up them anymore. I have long legs and need the exercise so that was fine with me. Anybody who says the midwest is all flat ought to canvass Fairfield precincts in Lafayette IN or river towns in IL like Elgin.

The packets themselves are great, looks like they are using Bill Foster's (IL-14) software that served him and Patrick Murphy in PA so well. Makes planning your route a piece of cake.

The first precinct we did in the morning when the weather was warm and sunny didn't go so great. A lot of "not homes" so we left the lit. For the most part we were looking for young people at their parents' homes which were on a lot of quarter or half acre lots, solid 4 bedroom spreads built in the 70s. Some kids live there but most weren't around on a bright sunny spring Saturday. Maybe they were all out canvassing for Obama too.

Talked to one guy my age when looking for his son who tried to shut me down right away. Said I came to the wrong house, he was voting for McCain, originally from Chicago he smugly "knew all about" Obama. Said Barack should have stayed away from a guy like Rezko. "Like McCain should have stayed away from Charles Keating?" I asked.

I told him I was actually looking for his son and then gave him my succinct economic speech. We had a $1 trillion dollar debt when Carter left office. It took us over 200 years, 2 world wars, a civil war, umpteen recessions and depressions to run that up that tab. Now it's $9 trillion. That's so ugly you have to say it twice. $9 trillion. In twenty seven short years of trickle down, supply side economics, with tax cuts for the richest 1% we've ballooned that debt out of control. John McCain said in 2001 Bush's tax cuts offended his conscience. Now he wants to make them permanent. Your kids, your grandkids are going to have to pay that debt. Guilt is a powerful motivator and it's about time some of these fools started feeling it. It didn't change his mind but I could tell it gave him something troubling to think about. He took my lit, said he'd give it to his son and begged off by saying he was a chef and had something cooking on the stove.

When I have time to expound on that like I did down the street with a 40 year old undecided son of a Greek immigrant who couldn't make up his mind between Hillary and Barack I tell them the Venezuelans, Iranians, even the Saudis and our "good friends" the Iraqis don't want to be paid in American dollars for their oil anymore. Our oil companies have to buy Euros to pay for it, the dollar is dropping like a rock and that's one of the big reasons oil and gas costs so much.

That really resonated with him. His dad left the family some property in Greece, a small hotel he and his brothers would like to sell. America is so unpopular there now his brother slaps Canadian maple leafs on his luggage when he goes back to the old country. They're stuck hanging on to the property because of the hit they'd take converting the sale into dollars. Said he's a Greek-American and he'd like the American part to be a positive, not a negative, not have to hide his nationality when he goes back to Greece again. He agreed that Hillary threatening to obliterate Iran wasn't going to help our rep in the world.

That oil company riff makes for a nice segue into why the gas tax "holiday" is such a bad idea. I told him McCain proposed it with no way to pay for it and Hillary "me-tooed" it and added her phony windfall profit tax on the oil companies. There's no better way to get a nod of recognition or an "ain't that the truth" than to emphatically say George Bush will never sign a bill that has a windfall profit tax on the oil companies. It's just not gonna happen. If by some miracle she and McCain ginned up enough popular support in congress to pass such a bill Bush would veto it and throw it right back in her face. She could either vote for it again without the windfall tax, gutting the Highway Trust Fund so Indiana will have to sell off more roads (Governor Mitch Daniels has about wrecked his career in Indiana by leasing their stretch of I-80 to Australians) or she can spend the summer telling disappointed drivers she was for the bill before she was against it. We all know how well that worked for Kerry.

That's dumb policy and even dumber politics she's using hoping you're dumb enough to buy it. The kicker I use is this, what it boils down to is you can vote for someone like Clinton or McCain who promises you a free lunch and tells you what you want to hear or you can vote for Obama who tells what you need to hear, doesn't make phony promises and treats you like an adult. I didn't write that to piss you off, I'm just telling you about an effective counter to Hillary's gas tax holiday.

The second precinct in the afternoon went much better. It got windy, cloudy and colder. Many more people home, lots of Obama supporters, fewer undecideds, even fewer Hillary supporters and all of three McCain voters. We saw three Hillary signs all day and none of her doorhangers. Did see Obama flyers stuck in some doors that evidently had been there a few days. Nobody but us had actually knocked on their doors this cycle and judging by the reaction of most people nobody, at least no Dems had ever canvassed them at all before. By the end of the day even the Libertarian who won't vote for Ron Paul (don't ask) waved at us as he drove by.

After talking to a number of undecideds I'm confident they voted for Obama. Most were leaning heavily that way anyway, I'm not taking credit for being wildly persuasive, anyone sincere enough to get off their butts to show up and talk policy could have given them that little bit more confidence they needed in the decision.

Sure there were some like the woman who thinks Paul Krugman is God who won't be budged off of Hillary. Funny thing is her little girl, who must of been all of eight years old was cheering for Obama behind her until she shushed her. There were at least three houses where the little kids were big Obama fans regardless of what their parents thought. If eight year olds could vote...

Most people are pleasant, if they're not seriously engaged they know they should be and are willing to listen to someone on their doorstep making the case for a candidate. That kind of attention is apparently a novelty in those precincts, quite a change from the Western Chicago burbs where any stranger on the doorstep is considered suspect, an inconvenience or worse, a possible home invader.

I only heard one voter mention Rev. Wright. He and his wife had already voted early for Obama but he was worried about the effect Wright will have. I empathized but told him I can't sit around and wring my hands about it. That's why I traveled a hundred and thirty miles to ask for his vote. I encouraged him to try canvassing. It cuts the anxiety and can be really gratifying.

The area was an interesting mix. Mostly white, a few European immigrants with a smattering of Hispanics. Some upper middle class neighborhoods but mostly smaller homes built in the 1950s or 60s and younger people. For every Purdue grad there seemed to be a guy chewing tobacco with a deep south accent, weedy lawn and a ratty pickup. A perfect example was the house owned by a 40 year old woman who had a "tree hugging, dirt worshipping environmentalist" plaque on her door. She already voted for Obama and asked me if it was ok for her rip out her neighbors Hillary sign. I told her she could burn it for all I care. She confided "they're hillbillies" so I advised her against it, don't want them going all Hatfield and McCoy on her. On the surface it doesn't look much different than suburban Chicagoland but it's a much smaller community where I imagine housing is cheaper but the job pool is much smaller. If you get downsized chances are there isn't another job like it within driving distance. That might explain the empty houses with realtor lockboxes on about 5 doors in these two precincts.

We hit all but about 5 houses that were "no such addresses". You can't do 1147 if the block ends at 1131. Didn't get back to the office til about 8:00 and didn't get home til about 10:45 my time.

Now on to Lake County. Got up Monday and needed to scratch that canvassing itch again. I'm about an hour from the Indiana border so I called the closest office in Hammond and got directions to the Carpenter's Hall where they were running GOTV. Once there at 10am they sent me and some others from Il, vols, local candidates and their staffers from Chicago and the burbs to a Schererville SEIU office about 9 miles to the south where we were needed. Again Barack's staffers running the show were mostly young, "campaign carnies" they move from state to state as they climb the food chain - if they're good - like in all campaigns. The vols again were mostly older, majority female, split about 60/40 white and black.

Both days we'd moved on from persuasion to GOTV, using doorhangers with the polling place addresses and a description of the new onerous IN ID requirements.

I spent Monday in Dyer off Main St. in a big precinct on Wellington. Mixed housing, newer townhouses, older single story apts on the edges and single family brick homes in the middle. These are 3 and 4 bedroom ranches or raised ranches with sturdy if unimaginative construction and immaculate lawns. Not much in the way of landscaping, they apparently don't go in for ornamentation like trees. It was like playing golf without clubs or a ball. The lawns are like fairways, most have no dandelions or crabgrass, it's a Scott's Turfbuilder
salesman's dream. These folks do the work themselves, no Chemlawn or landscaping trucks full of Mexicans in this neighborhood.

Lotta of Italian and Polish names, I really didn't get much of a read on it as 68 out of 91 doors were "not home".

Tuesday I went 5 miles east down Rt 30 from the office at it's intersection with Rt. 41 to a cheesy, dirty faux Tudor style 3 story apt complex on Pine Island St. Then in the afternoon. 5 miles south down 41 to 77th St. to a subdivision off Robin Hood.

Again too many "not homes" for me to get a reading. And far too many people undecided. With low info voters my take is they know should pay attention to this stuff but for them it's as fun as doing their taxes. But unlike taxes an it's adult responsibility they can easily dodge. They'd like to make a decision but the fear of getting it wrong, the fear that their choice will screw up like Bush makes them nervous and they'd rather avoid the guilt by taking a pass.

In that vein I used the "she can't win, she can only prolong the race, with both candidates soaking up money that ought to be going to our congressional candidates, and damaging the nominee when we ought to be fighting McCain". To make it simpler for some I use a football analogy, "she lost too many big games earlier in the season, her record is 6-9 and needs to get to 10-6 to make the playoffs. The only way she can get there is to get the league to change the rules midseason". I'm hoping that stirred some to action.

A whole lot of people in those apts. in the morning moved in the last year and haven't changed their registration. I told them they can try to go back to their old precinct and vote, or take their driver's license and a couple of utility bills, bank statements etc. over to the clubhouse and see if they're on the voter roll. If worst comes to worse I tell them their last resort is to ask for a provisional ballot. I even explain to them P ballots stink, they only get looked at if it's close but it may be their only chance to get their vote counted.

Well that's enough for this book length post. We held the line in Lake County, kicked ass in Lafayette and out of 1.2 million+ votes cast in Indiana lost by 22,000 votes and a single delegate.

Hillary needed a big win in IN and a tie in NC. She didn't get either and she's run out of ground to make up the difference. Her surrogates can't effectively make her electability argument to superdels anymore. It's time.

Submitted by lambert on

One commenter said that the doctored "War Room" video smearing the Clintons as racist went over big in the IndyStar forums and on radio.

Did you encounter any of that?

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

markg8's picture
Submitted by markg8 on

I doubt if a single voter I talked to knows who Mickey Cantor is or have heard of the movie anyway.

Aeryl's picture
Submitted by Aeryl on

The cognitive dissonance is appalling. The windfall profits tax has been a key component to Clinton's policies since the beginning, it's just that most people, including you Mark, haven't noticed.

So she used McCain's idea to get some leverage for it, and now people are calling it "fake".

Gotta love it.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond

markg8's picture
Submitted by markg8 on

WPT isn't a very efficient method of recapturing revenue, penalizing oil profiteers, or whatever she's trying to accomplish. The oil cos would just raise prices to pay for it.

Instead why not do away with the $20 to $50 billion a year in direct and indirect subsidies to them? That makes more sense than gutting the revenue source for the Highway Trust Fund.

LostClown's picture
Submitted by LostClown on

Yet who is tied with McCain in Mass?

happily immune to all religious indoctrination

“I do not think that word means what you think it means"

My etsy shop

markg8's picture
Submitted by markg8 on

It hardly matters if she's tied with McCain in MA if she's behind Obama in the delegate count. I hear Al Gore would do quite well there too. That also doesn't matter.

markg8's picture
Submitted by markg8 on

If by some miracle Hillary and McCain did gin up enough public demand to force Reid and Pelosi's hand for this "holiday" and they actually passed a bill with no WPT in it that Bush would sign it doesn't take a genius to figure the Repubs would run all fall on making that tax cut permanent. They've never seen a debt yet that they aren't willing to foist off on all those unborn children they care so much about.

Aeryl's picture
Submitted by Aeryl on

I assume that if there were no WPT, she wouldn't support the gas tax holiday.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond

markg8's picture
Submitted by markg8 on

She could say all summer how she was actually for the bill before she was against it. I thought she was against giving voters false hope.

Aeryl's picture
Submitted by Aeryl on

until the last superdelegate votes.

So, you're just lying again. Like your candidate.

Sweet!

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond

markg8's picture
Submitted by markg8 on

As I understand it Obama has most of the governors, senators and house reps i.e. candidates running this year with skin in the game and in need of coattails from the top of the ticket. Hill does well with DNC types, the retired warhorses, and courtesans from the Clinton administration hoping for a restoration to regain their influence.

They all want to see Dems win up and down the ballot this year. As we've seen with Andrews and McGovern the old guard is seeing the writing on the wall. Even Feinstein publicly today said she made a call to Hillary (which hasn't been returned yet) to ask where she's going with this.

On May 20 Obama is expected to win enough delegates in OR to have an unassailable majority. To use the football analogy no amount of argument about yardage gained, touchdown vs. field goal points, counting exhibition game wins or ticket sales will change the fact that he won the games he needed to win to make the playoffs and she hasn't. I know it's hard to take but that's how it works. The remaining superdels know it too and they won't alienate over half the party for her benefit.

markg8's picture
Submitted by markg8 on

I talked to a Dem precinct committeeman and town council member in that last one off Robin Hood and he'd been down to vote at the biggest Orthodox church I've ever seen this side of Russia (St. George's) about 3:30. He was bummed looking at the voter roll. He was sure his local Repubs were heeding Limbaugh's advice and crossing over to vote for Hillary. I tried to cheer him up by saying that you never know, they may be going over for Obama. He assured me he knows who he's talking about and they won't vote for Obama period and the only reason they'd vote for Hillary is to gum up our election. They'll be there for McCain in the fall.

Aeryl's picture
Submitted by Aeryl on

people who say the exact opposite. Your point?

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond

markg8's picture
Submitted by markg8 on

from a precinct committeeman and town council member who can walk in a polling place and look at the voter roll.

LostClown's picture
Submitted by LostClown on

are loving every second of it. Like lambs to the slaughter.

happily immune to all religious indoctrination

“I do not think that word means what you think it means"

My etsy shop

LostClown's picture
Submitted by LostClown on

And I heard from the Emperor of the Milky Way that our planet is going to be invaded on election night.

happily immune to all religious indoctrination

“I do not think that word means what you think it means"

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Aeryl's picture
Submitted by Aeryl on

for the gas tax holiday, contingent on the WTP tax. It has been that way since the tax was first brought up by McCain.

What are you arguing about?

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond

markg8's picture
Submitted by markg8 on

...for Hillary and McCain to pass such a bill is to bang the drum loud enough to foster a overwhelming groundswell of public support in order to overcome Reid and Pelosi's reluctance to even allow it to come to a vote. Pelosi won't even allow it's introduction in the House at this point.

There's no evidence that's happening but let's just say it does and Hillary rides such a groundswell to a virtual tie with Obama that keeps her campaign alive thru the summer. She'd be committing political suicide to withdraw her support. Don't expect low info voters (her base) to understand why she won't vote for the free lunch she promised. What's she gonna do? Get a few elitist experts or economists to explain her flip flop to them?