No bill is better than a bad bill
Primary tabs
Submitted by lambert on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 9:33am
Obama disagrees of course, but he has poll numbers and midterms to think about. Ditto the wannabe insiders and career liberals and "public option" (or "plan") advocates. I've got my health to think about, and that of my friends. Nothing to date has re-assured me that we won't end up with a mandate that forces millions of us to pay for junk insurance, leaving all us unterbussen worse off than before.
Just look at the list of unresolved issues in the AP story linked to above, and tell me you've got confidence that the sausage that comes out of the FKDP's machine won't be shit.
NOTE Bernie Sanders shows how the sausage was made for Medicare Part D. It looks to me like both administrations went to the same cooking school.

- lambert's blog

- Log in or register to post comments
Comments
mid terms
the politics of a bad bill are worse than no bill. being forced to buy junk insurance will turn the people against the Dems more than anything I can think of.
Wait for the plan to kick in...
... in 2013. Not be be cynical.
You can't be too cynical.
Seriously. You can't.
You're kidding! Oh,...
No, you're not...
Sigh.
This is not my country. This is not what we do.
And That's Bad Why?
I can think of a lot worse things than Dems losing seats in 2010 because they sold the economy to Wall Street and healthcare to Big Medicine. They need to be reminded who their base is.
New heights of cynicism
Oddly, the hopey changey brigade have brought me to a higher level of cynicism than I've ever had (and my political consciousness was shaped during the Contract with America, more on that later). Normally I'd disagree with the no bil argument when it comes to health care, but I do see this crop of opportunistic peasant haters drafting a bill that will leave all but the healthiest/wealthiest worse off. Sort of an anti-Rawlsian ideal.
Thanks, progs, for turning this optimistic person into a cranky old man decades before my time.
Me too
and my cynicism goes back to the Gulf of Tonkin.
Ezra Klein on the Medicare part D analogy
Is history about to repeat itself? I am most interested by Ted Kennedy's actions in this: [my emphasis]
With a Democratic president whipping, and we know Obama can whip with the best/worst of them, how many in this Congress would have the courage to abandon a bill gone bad? (Especially Representatives, who always have re-election campaigns lurking.)
It depends on what "bill gone bad" means
"Gone bad" for whom?
On of the attractions of single payer for me is that it eliminates so much of the gaming. Of course, people paid good money for the rents from those games...
filibuster
I suppose there is a remote possibility that if we got a bad bill Sanders would filibuster it with the support of Conservative Republicans. We could have a truly weird filibuster.
Romneycare and mandates (and fines failing to "nudge"?)
WSJ editorial on Romneycare and "Obamacare":
This being the WSJ editorial pages, their solution is that the mandate should be removed (and community rating abolished, perhaps?).
Single-payer solves this problem by covering everyone automatically and also charging everyone automatically. I could phrase this in a less attractive way by saying that it removes the element of choice from the question of whether to have and pay for health insurance. "Choice" has become such an automatic element of the discussion of health care reform that I am very much afraid that this is how it would be phrased.
This is why I think it is very important how we talk about these things, as I've said before here and here.
Emphasize the element of choice, sure - when talking about choosing doctors, hospitals, etc. Right now I suspect most people with health insurance can't really choose which doctor they see, not if they want to have their visits covered. (Like my mom, I get a "choice" from a menu of doctors, none of whom is the woman who used to be my PCP: my health insurance plan at work was changed and she does not participate in my current HMO.)
But when we talk about coverage, we must emphasize the social justice aspect. No, I'd go farther than that: it is just purely patriotic, especially in tough economic times, that we as a society make sure that everyone is taken care of and no one slips through the cracks. I find it completely unacceptable that the HELP committee seems to think it is OK to let even 3% of us go without coverage just to push through a bill that allows the insurance companies to go on profiting from our misery. I find it completely unacceptable that their plan seems to be designed to force my son to stay with his current employer-provided plan, for which he pays a hefty part of the premium, but which has (so far) not paid for much of the care he needs.
This is America. We take care of each other. That's how it should be.
[Yes, I want to elevate this to a whole post centered around LBJ's words on Medicare, but I'm too rushed to write it at the moment.]
--------------------------------
P.S. the WSJ editorial ends in this rather telling paragraph: [my emphasis]
Hmm. "individuals" != "taxpayers"?
Good catch on RomneyCare
Thanks. If the insurance companies can game the system, so can we. Fair's fair...
LOL:
"The individual mandate penalty for not having coverage is only about $900, so people seem to be gaming the Massachusetts system." This is demonstratively false. The only ones "gaming the system" are the insurers, who thanks to my Democratic legislature and former Republican Governor, now have a large, guaranteed customer base, with which they can continue, unabated, to raise premiums on.
Demonstratively false?
Then please give the evidence. (I'm serious, not snarking.) It would be very useful.
The WSJ editorial, much as I hate its concluding paragraphs, provided evidence of what they referred to as people gaming the system: the report which described people buying insurance only for a short period of time when they needed it and cramming all their health care seeking into that period.
If this does not go on, or only in a few isolated instances, it would be really good to be able to point to evidence of that.
(It actually does seem rational that people would behave as the editorial reports. The problem for me is that it's almost too rational, requring an amount of planning that I fear most people are not up to, especially when dealing with the other consequences of health care problems. So I'd really like to see actual data, as opposed to assertions. Unfortunately the WSJ editor did not see fit to link his source, which seems to be Charlie Baker's blog. I couldn't find the specific reference in the time I had, but poking around the blog reveals that Baker is in substantial harmony with the views put forth on the editorial pages of the WSJ. Oh, and he's running for governor!)
(P.S. I think you meant "demonstrably false", but, whatever.)
Can't both statements be true?
1. RomneyCare guarantees the market ($900 minimum)
2. People pay the $900, get care, and then stop the premiums?
absolutely, they can
And, like you, I'd be very cheerful if people were, in droves, gaming this sucky system. Since we know (because of testimony offered to the Senate, among other things) that the insurers are doing so.
It's just that, if we're going to make assertions about how people are acting, as a member of the reality-based community I'd like to see them backed up with actual evidence.
Also, my goal is not to have a system where all players game and are gamed in return. My goal is social justice. (I'm not saying you're not agreeing; just want to get that on the record.)
I'd like to see some serious data as well
It's always a bit suspicious when huge numbers are thrown around like that -- a 600% increase? What was the base number, what percent of their enrollment does that represent, what percent of their costs, etc etc. What kind of medical bills are these people racking up? Chemo? Surgery? Or are people just going in and hanging with their docs once a week? (somehow I'm doubting the last bit). Are these people who just lost their jobs? think they'll lose their jobs? 600% sounds like a scary huge number, but it's not nec. a significant one.
Anecdotally, members of my family run a 'small business' and to hear them talk it's the stupid way Romneycare is enforced that's killing them. And also anecdotally, most of the people I know with enough planning skills and such nec. to 'game the system' are also the people who have enough money to hire tax planners, aka, people who could afford health insurance anyway.
I say false because I don't consider that "gaming the system".
People can not afford the private insurance mandate, nor high cost health care. So when the latter exceeds the former they buy health insurance, once the former again exceeds the latter, they drop it, at great risk to their own health. That's not "gaming". That's finding a way to live within a terrible system.
A thought on "individuals" vs "taxpayers"
You can charge "individuals" according to how expensive their health care needs are (by eliminating community rating, charging more for old people and less for young, etc.)
But "taxpayers" are (generally) charged according to income, in a progressive way.
Topsy turvey world
"No bill is better than a bad bill"
Well Obama disagrees when comes to health care.
And agreed with it when it came to capping credit card interest rates.
But it is easy to understand when you realize he stands on whichever side pleases the big companies supporting him and doesn't actually help the average worker.
Whoops, my cynicism is showing...
What are your concerns about reform? Come comment
I've been commenting on a post at Pal M.D.'s blog in which he reports that his patients express concerns that sound like right-wing talking points. (which may say as much about what kind of patients he has as anything)
He asks, more or less rhetorically (because he then goes on to answer it):
Maybe other people want to add theirs. I don't always agree with Pal M.D., but he has a pretty good blog. I'm not asking for people to pile on. It's just another place to make our concerns known to a possibly different audience.
Not surprising about the right wing talking points
Given that most of Versailles, and most Democrats, including Obama, use them.