I saw the Cap’n mention it in another thread, but what is it exactly?

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

If a troll mentions it, it’s sure to be disinformation anyhow. Just another OFB mindfuck.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Move-On is made up of about 3 million members. The small staff started to get emails from members asking about the possibility of Move-On endorsing a candidate in the primary.

So, they conducted an online vote by members, first on the question of whether or not the organization should endorse. I voted ’no,’ but more people voted ’yes.’

Next, they had a vote on who to endorse, I believe that Edwards had halted his campaign by that time, but I’m not sure of that.

I saw no information come across my computer screen that tilted toward Obama, nor was I aware of any influence on Move-On members from the Obama campaign.

Also, Move-On did not take any sort of stand on military action in Afghanistan after 9/11. Clinton is uninformed about that.

It is unfortunate that this tape was made and the OFB is making much too much of it. The release of the tape to Huffington Post was at least as damaging to any positive role that MoveOn can play in the future as it is to Clinton’s campaign, because the right will use her characterization of Move-On as an extremist group against Democrats in the GE.

What any eye-on-the-prize Democrat should be doing right now is to urge Clinton and Move-On to talk, or at least for both to refrain from carrying this misunderstanding further, so that Clinton can say that now that she knows more about Move-On she realizes that they are as American as apple pie.

But that isn’t going to happen, is it?

And part of the problem can be located among Clinton supporters, although I agree that Obama blogs and their commentators deserve a greater portion of the blame. As French Doc makes clear, of course Hillary and Bill Clinton are Democrats.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

One that’s actually trustworthy?

Because it looks like more of the same to me.

The OFB are doing the haka; that’s why we had a troll over here last night pushing the story. I didn’t say MoveOn was actually doing anything.

I’ll cross out the “Kool-Aid” reference, not to suggest that Obama does not, in fact, purvey Kool-Aid, but in deference to the fact that not all Obama supporters drank it.

But seriously, my larger point remains:

MoveOn morphed from being an advocate for progressive causes to an advocacy organization for one candidate, who many, and not just me, feel is not that progressive. (We can have the discussion of whether misogyny is compatible with progressivism another time; let’s just mention universal health care for now.)

So, can you suggest an appropriate and effective form of pushback from the other candidates? Because I don’t think so. And pushback is, in any case, appropriate. Why would it not be?

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

MoveOn should have never asked its member whether they want to endorse a candidate. After all, we all can endorse Mussolini if we want to. A progressive organization with general goals doesn’t really lowers itself to a level of candidate selection.

I left MoveOn right after they turned their back on their mission. Nothing positive comes out from being misguided. Betraying supporters, Hillary, and supporting the wishy washy, Obama, results in slimy a organization that better die away.

Then I received an email asking me why I was leaving and I simply replied “I support Hillary Clinton”. I never heard from MoveOn since. I guess they didn’t need my activism or money after all.

And between the permanent state of haka and trying to WORM their way out of the every issue, the OFB is driving itself insane and enraged.

Pushing the MoveOn thing, but not one of them has yet mentioned what Clinton did in re to MoveOn.

I want to know, dammit!! Then I can judge whether it was good or bad.

I agree that MoveOn shouldn’t have endorsed a candidate, and member poll or not, someone should have seen that was a bad idea(of course the OFB who said yes, MoveOn should endorse, they don’t care how many voters they alienate, they want to be the popular kids, waah). But, you would have thought, that once they saw their members chose Obama, they could have said to their members, that’s a bad idea, esp since he didn’t stand up for us. Those members who chose to have MoveOn endorse, and then selected Obama, didn’t care that this would effect MoveOn’s ability to initiate progressive change, they just wanted to Freep another internet poll so their guy could win.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

Jeff Fecke explains.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

“MoveOn should have never asked its member[s] whether they want to endorse a candidate.”

Especially with two centrists with similar voting records who needed to be vetted to see who stacked up better on character issues, framing, etc.

I agree with Jeff.

It’s not that big a deal. This isn’t going to affect a voter’s choice in the booth(unlike Obama’s “cling” comments, IMO).

She did get the detail about Afghanistan wrong, MoveOn was not against that, and since this is now getting play, I hope she will correct herself and apologize(unlike Obama who only dug deeper).

But the rest of the statement is 100% spot fucking on, especially about the caucus intimidation.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

Looks like the Obamabots are out in full force this morning.

there are few supporters and fair handed people trying to put a decent look at this.

But it doesn’t really matter. Those bots weren’t going to vote for her, they are just going to use it as something else to flog her with, while they attend their circle jerk.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

Anybody got a link?

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

has a story about the intimidation, if you wants teh results, I know overall Obama gained some. Burnt Orange Report has more.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

does not include speeches and policy proposals, right?

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“Real ponies don’t oink” - Patrick McManus

Moveon and Dean are the primary causes of the Democratic debacle now underway. Moveon needs to back off, and as they become aware of the magnitude of their failure (backing Obama without vetting) announce to the world that they are now neutral re: the nominees.
I’ll be glad to one day rejoin MoveOn, and again donate money through them for progressive causes. But never under current circumstances when they exercised very poor judgement re: supporting Obama. That decision was stupid. I don’t want stupid handling money I donate.
Dean needs to get over his dictatorial power wants, bring Michigan and Florida back into the equation, and let the chips fall where they may. I will not vote for Obama in November unless MI and FL are brought into the equation. Just to be clear, this is Dean’s fault and Dean’s fault only: let the consequences rest on his shoulders for history to observe.

Aeryl, OBF will not rise to the challenge, because they can’t. Obama’s campaign consists of generating noise to mask Hillary’s advantages, seemingly because Obama does not have an adequate track record. Fine, that doesn’t mean he should not compete, but competing by lying and calling people racists is never going to get my support.

Just sayin.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

(that’s how I originally read your name, b/c I’m braindead:)

Speeches don’t count as experience. I haven’t checked back since I posted that, so I don’t know if there are any yet, but like jimbo, I wouldn’t be surprised if it remained dead.

Which I actually think was the point, that there are no arguments for Obama.

UPDATE: The post has been up for over an hour, still no substantial responses. Maybe somebody should take a screen shot.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

keeps track of the time: how long before we get a substantial response from an Obama supporter.

I was hoping less than 45 minutes (see ABC debate).

… is broken.

Correct citation is a liberal principle!

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Here’s something for the resident Obama supporters to do.

The Confluence has issued a challenge to Obama supporters to make the pitch for their candidate.

The rules:

1.You must not make any reference to your competition, either Hillary or McCain.

2. Explain Obama’s qualifications and experience to us.

3. Explain to us why we should consider Obama’s proposals for the future.

4. Critique his debate performances.

And no bad language!!

There are no comments, yet, let’s see how you do.

NOTE: I hate tags.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

by Riverdaughter telling her readers not to post snark (which means they already did and she had to delete all these comments :-)).

http://www.correntewire.com/ok_obama_fan…

http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis…

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1…

We weren’t mean to him or nothing, and he folded up like a cheap suit.

The best part was when he said:

“The way I heard it told Hillary’s arrogancy and imperiousness were a major cause of the failure of her healthcare plan.

We corrected his mistaken beliefs and he vanished like a fart in a hurricane.

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“Real ponies don’t oink” - Patrick McManus

Keyboard + tea + cursing at myiq2xu :-)

There was a response!

From “kip”:

One major reason I prefer Barack is that his plan only mandates health-care for minors.
Barack has honed his once pale debate skills into a plus; he has the ability to explain complex issues in a way that most people can understand his point of view, whether they agree with him or not.
To date, Barack has won the most states, delegates and votes.
I have to think that being a Law Professor would be a plus for anyone who wishes to lead this country out of the Constitutional crisis we’re now in.

I like the last part best. The Big Dawg taught Con Law at U of Ark, and John Yoo and Ken Starr are law professors. That’s really not a good argument for Obama.

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“Real ponies don’t oink” - Patrick McManus

but apparently, we’re not supposed to engage in the thread. It’s OFB sandbox. But if Kip is representative, it’s pretty lame, to say the least.

his plan only mandates health-care for minors.

I thought mandates were bad. Oh well, at least they finally learned that Obama’s plan has mandates.

Why is it good to have a mandate on parents, but not everyone else?

And I am confused too. I carry my daughter on my insurance, and to add her to my policy my bi-weekly premiums only increased by $10. Will that satisfy Obama’s mandate, or will I have to drop her and buy into a separate plan, which will undoubtedly cost more than $20/mo?

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

it’s just one of the inconsistencies in his positions.

Keep it simple, stupid.

You need healthcare, you go to the doctor. The doctor gives you the care you need. The doctor doesn’t worry about how to make a profit or what treatments are authorized under your plan (if you have one.)

The doctor is well compensated, and you are well treated.

It’s called “universal health care.”

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“Real ponies don’t oink” - Patrick McManus

over at The Confluence.

“I like that he was raised by secular parents”

WTF does that mean?

I like that he has strong grassroots support, and that his campaign isn’t mostly financed by corporations.

Woo, buddy, have you actually seen who is donating to him?

I like that he has never been a republican and that he has never worked closely with wal-mart.

Oh yeah, because those employee labor protections she got them to institute were bad things.

I like that he picks good people to run a quality campaign, and that they fought for states that others
dismissed.

Like FL & MI?

I like the fact that his campaign is generally positive and doesn’t resort to cliche attack ads.

Oh, my sides hurt after that one.

The poster had a few others, but those are valid or personal feelings about a candidate that can’t be changed by a fact check, like the fact that he is biracial, or he reminds people of JFK or MLK.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

… that these posters’ rhetorical muscles intended for the cogent defense and promotion of Obama’s leadership qualities have so atrophied. I know we’ve been running from the policy wonk/dullsville mien of Kerry, Gore, etc., but this is ridiculous. Shouldn’t we want more from our candidates than an electability sheen?

No one’s probably asked them this before, or most likely they never saw the importance and courtesy of listening and responding to those who want to be logically persuaded he’s the right candidate to back.

“know we’ve been running from the policy wonk/dullsville mien of Kerry, Gore, etc.”

I’m watching a Lewis Black special, and he asks how the Democrats chose Kerry, a boring candidate. The honest truth, is that we bought his story. The dedicated Senator, with a war record(the Dems Bob Dole, if you will). The media sold us the story, but we bought it.

So part of me that is now always distrustful of our “Authori-tie”, doesn’t trust the story the media has been selling us. They set us up once before, and they are doing it again, this time with the full assist of the left netroots.

That’s what’s sad. It seems to me like we are about to make this same mistake, and we’ll lose an election that was ours to win.

Since we have been reduced to the competing bullshit media narratives(because the left blogosphere had taken the media’s cause and made it their own), I feel Clinton is a greater asset to win, because I believe it will backfire.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

beat out Dodd, Biden and Edwards?

Only a completely dysfunctional primary system allows a empty-suit candidate like Obama to eliminate three heavyweight contenders like those before more than a handful of voters even have a chance to express an opinion.

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“Real ponies don’t oink” - Patrick McManus