Oh, good

Sat, 01/03/2009 - 5:04pm — lambert

Israel's ground invasion of Gaza begins. NPR remarks that AK47s have hitherto had little effect against tanks. Who knew?

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it will be a massacre --

By amberglow on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 7:03pm

they're gonna kill and kill and kill. and i'm sure they have nightvision and heatseeking stuff too -- there's no electricity.

it's beyond evil. and no one is stopping them.

evil and wrong actually don't even begin to describe this -- they've moved past that now.

i had hoped that maybe they'd at least embed some journalists -- that would have at least let the world know or held the soldiers back a little -- but not even that.

god...

It's Israel's final, best chance to destroy the Palestinians

By Davidson on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 7:53pm

Many in the government are suspicious of Obama, not entirely trusting him, and know that by the time January 20 rolls around it'll be too late. They also likely figure the New Years break will distract enough people, minimizing the chances of public pressure. Lastly, Israeli elections are coming up so what better way for politicians to boost their national security cred than by shooting sitting ducks.

No one can honestly believe the Israeli government started massacring hundreds of people because of a clear and present danger when basically all those Hamas rockets did was cause property damage. They're doing it in order to rid Gaza of the Palestinians so they can fully annex it. Already, it's an occupied territory, having been starved for years now.

This is a great post by a Palestinian leader, Mustafa Barghouthi. And Al-Jazeera also has an interesting opinion piece called, "Israel's failure to learn."

destroy and/or hand them off to other countries --

By amberglow on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 8:13pm

that's what i think -- they want Egypt and Syria and Jordan, etc, to take them in, removing them entirely from Israel.

i cling to that in hopes of a very slightly less evil goal than extermination -- that as things get worse and worse for Palestinians there -- intentionally and wholly due to Israel's actions -- the goal really is to hand them off and get them off the land.

Hand them off?

By Nervine5 on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 8:26pm

But the Egyptians aren't allowed to open their borders to allow Palestinians in without Israel's permission. If Israel just wanted them somewhere else, wouldn't they allow them to flee to Egypt? This part is confusing to me, does Israel prefer the Gazans to die from starvation, disease and armaments?

they can open whenever they want --Egypt doesn't want to --

By amberglow on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 8:48pm

all the more moderate neighbors like Eqypt are deathly afraid of being overturned by more religious leaders a la Iran's revolution.

Egypt could open its border right now and Israel would be thrilled. Egypt doesn't want them there -- at all.

more on Egypt here --

By amberglow on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 8:57pm

Government contortions, public anger == Egyptian complicity in Israel's Gaza bloodbath is giving fresh impetus to struggles against the Mubarak regime

... the Mubarak government's breathtaking contortions as it tried to justify its complicity in Israel's Gazan bloodbath.

The pages of Egypt's state-owned newspapers are an inky testament to George Orwell's claim that "Political language ... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." A few brief examples:

• Israeli foreign minister Tzipi Livni visits President Mubarak on the eve of the military offensive to secure his approval; her Egyptian counterpart claims that Mubarak had got wind of what was about to happen and had summoned "that woman" to Cairo to persuade her to stop the attack.

• Egypt leaves the Rafah border largely sealed as bombs fall on Gazans, citing in its defence an expired treaty to which it is not even a signatory; government spokesmen insist that Egypt is acting in the Palestinian national interest by thwarting Israel's plan to annex Gaza to its Arab neighbour.

• Protecting his own fast-melting political skin, Mubarak spends months helping to isolate Hamas and maintains a brutal crackdown on its Egyptian colleagues, the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood; as Israeli missiles seek out Hamas targets, he keeps a straight face while telling the Egyptian people that Zionist leaders have blood on their hands and that the Palestinians must stand united. ...

Oh hell

By Nervine5 on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 9:08pm

N/T

NYT -- Egypt Pressed on Gaza From Without and Within

By amberglow on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 9:16pm

Egypt Pressed on Gaza From Without and Within --

... More damaging is a widespread belief that Egypt was complicit in the Israeli attacks, an idea that stemmed from a visit to Cairo by the Israeli foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, the day before the assault began. Traditionally, Israel warns Cairo secretly before taking important military action in Gaza. So the pictures of Mr. Mubarak smiling and shaking hands with Ms. Livni have fueled popular speculation that Egypt was aware of the impending attack and even approved it, to deal a blow to Hamas.

“There is a lot of popular anger over the position of the government, especially that the Israeli foreign minister was here less than 24 hours before the attacks,” said Rania Al Malky, chief editor of Daily News Egypt. “People are putting two and two together and accusing Egypt of complicity. That’s a popular feeling.” ...

Egypt already has an important Islamic opposition that could create significant domestic unrest. ...

Well..

By Nervine5 on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 9:05pm

You mean that Egypt is afraid of who/what religious entity? My bad, I read that Egypt would love to open their borders but were not allowed to because of a treaty they had with Israel.

Not good at deciphering that world MSM spin.

Barghouthi -The evil only exists because the good remain silent

By amberglow on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 8:16pm

-- we prove how wholly not "good" we are by our complicity and enabling and approval of all this -- over and over and over ..

Yep

By Nudnik on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 9:12pm

With that nightvision, they will kill as many Hamas "fighters" as possible...and that will be good for everyone. If you truly want peace, then it will only come if Hamas is destroyed as an effective force. Until then, there can be no political solution.

"Israel has plenty of tactics for war, but none for peace"

By amberglow on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 7:09pm

Israel has plenty of tactics for war, but none for peace -- A leadership dazzled by its own military might ignores the political reality and believes the only solutions lie in force

Palestine loss of land 1946-2000

By Nervine5 on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 8:53pm

Palestine loss of land 1946-2000

http://chris-floyd.com/component/content...

They better hurry

By Nudnik on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 9:16pm

Looking at those maps, I would say that the Palestinians' jihad against Israel has not been working too well. They should hurry to make peace as soon as possible, or they will have no land left whatsoever. Unfortunately, their leadership is too dumb (and always has been) to understand this.

driving them into the sea, are you?

By amberglow on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 9:23pm

dumb leadership is what Israel has -- and they're ensuring continued violence by their actions.

Ensuring violence

By Nudnik on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 10:43pm

Stopping now would indeed ensure the continuation of violence. However, rendering Hamas powerless would contribute to the prospects for peace.

As to "driving them into the sea", that is the goal of the Palestinians, not Israel. And if it is Israel's goal, they have been doing a piss-poor job at it, since the population of the Palestinians has grown tremendously under the "occupation"

Yeah right

By Nervine5 on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 9:36pm

that graphic doesn't show Israel's aggression at all.

Suppose you be the one being pushed into oblivion. What would you do?

Easy

By Nudnik on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 11:15pm

I would have accepted one of the multitude of offers of independence (1947, 1967, 1980, 2000).

The graphic doesn't show anything actually. What does it mean by "Palestinian land"?

For the love of the FSM

By Damon on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 10:10pm

Ignore him. Seriously. He's an unconstructive troll and nothing more. If you want to look at a serious poster, here, on the other side of the issue, look at Randall Kohn. This guy, however, is a troll.

—

But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...

Yer right

By Nervine5 on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 11:10pm

What is FSM?

FSM = Flying Spaghetti Monster

By Damon on Sun, 01/04/2009 - 12:28am

And, Lambert really needs to do something about that guy. Again, he's not trying to be constructive. He's hit-and-run posting, and not arguing the issue, but doing nothing more than to get a rise out of othere posters, here. Really, where and what else has he posted, here?

—

But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...