
Disgusting. If you can't hear it from me, maybe you can hear it from Bob Somerby: part 1, part 2, part 3, and part 4.
No, I really don't want to relitigate the primaries, but if you don't stomp the lies, they come back -- as we saw with CDS in the primaries.
It's a shame. I guess there's some Kool-Aid you just can't undrink.
NOTE We thought that some comments were deleted, but, being used to a single page of 300 or so threaded comments, missed that they had been moved by the CMS to another part of the forest after we posted them.
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What BAG News wrote
Before it is deleted/altered (I'm quoting this because I saw their post was edited and wasn't sure if they edit things out):
-----------------------------
I'm not such a bad guy once you get to know me.
Thanks
The sentence I called out was:
Artfully worded, but to anyone who paid attention at the time, a lie. BAG News -- still FITH
.
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi
From the Google cache
Here is the deleted portion, the former item #4:
Does anyone see the slippery slope here?
Delonas is obviously a racist.
Hillary is obviously a racist assassin.
The outer fringe of what's "obvious," then, becomes whether or not a lame, current-events-based cartoon is shooting tits into Obama-as-monkey. Well done, all!
Wow.
I'm speechless. This person must write fiction for a livng. What a, um, vivid imagination.
A mind is a terrible thing to lose.
That whole assassination smear was the worst, and there was no reasoning with people who wanted to believe it. I know, because several formerly rational posters at Eschaton were frothing at the mouth.
Racism is in the eye of the beholder
I must say that I was appalled at the reaction to this cartoon. Why does an image of a monkey have to be inextricably equated to a black person? THAT is racist.
Has no one heard of the of the saying "This/that is like a monkey on my back"?
Some things are more "obviously racist" than others
Like when people demonstrate relish in harping on Obama's middle name (repeating it three times is kind of a giveaway). Or hanging a black man on a tree in effigy.
But you have to take a few leaps to have no doubts about this cartoon being racist:
1. That the current-events context of the marauding chimp couldn't possibly be the intended context
2. That Obama is the author of the stimulus bill, which he isn't
3. That the artist and paper are not merely stupid and racist, they're stupid and racist enough to want to be associated with making such an association
I do think it's a particularly lame cartoon, and I would have expected someone on the Post to have considered the racist interpretation, but I also think at a minimum some reasonable doubt is in order.
VL, my problem w/ the cartoon is that it is such a stretch to in
any way connect the shooting of the attacking chimp with the Obama Stimulus Bill.
The only way to make that connection, as I see it, is the long and ugly use in this country, and others, of monkey cartoons and caricatures to represent black people.
The chimp was shot bcz it had violently attacked a person it knew and usually had no problems with; it then went after the police, trying to open the cruiser's doors. I don't know if it was trying to break the windows, but, the cop clearly felt threatened. Too bad there weren't any tranquilizer darts.
But, how does that in any way whatsoever get connected to the Obama Stimulus Bill? How does a horrific life-threatening attack by an animal resemble or bear comparison to the writing of the bill?
If the cartoonist saw the bill as an attack on the body politc, surely there would have been a better, more explanatory caption/dialogue line?
I would also posit that most people think of it as Obama's Stimulus bill, whether he wrote each part or not. Clearly, he had demanded it, said it should be ready for signature by Presidents' Day, had members of administration working on it, forced changes on the House version, worked with the Gane of Screw the People to modify the Senate version -- and then made trips out into the country to campaign for its passage.
So, again -- how does the bill compare with a maddened, unprovoked attack on a human woman by a chimpanzee? How can they be connected, logically or historically? Other than by the long-lived ugly and denigrating depictions of black people, especially black men, as monkeys?
I'm trying to see how this cartoon can be viewed as other than racist, but I can't.
Well, er
Jawbone writes:
Honestly.
It's as if we were looking at a cartoon from Der Sturmer -- not that the NY Post is in that league -- and we were arguing, well:
Yep, the "only way" indeed.
I'm all for evidence and reasoning, but what a lot of the comments on this post look like to me is an attempt to rationalize some very ugly facts away: Yes, Obama is black, and yes, there are racists who hate him for that, and (I suppose) all that hate may play out in some really bad ways, dog forbid. Cartoonists deal in the kind of visual cliche exemplified in this cartoon; it's their stock in trade. This one ought to be a no-brainer.
And now to VL's points. He writes:
Haven't you ever heard of appropriating a "news hook" for a point unrelated to the original story? Happens all the time. I do it in the "Science for Republicans" posts I run every so often. It's an entirely standard technique.
He may not "write" the bill (the cartoon's word), but he's certainly the one claiming victory or defeat at the passage of the bill; in that sense, it's "Obama's bill" in the narrative. Somehow, I think that's a more salient point for the average reader of the Post than "How a Bill Becomes a Law" (especially if they're of the authoritarian mindset).
The right has a well known history of leveraging racism with plausibly deniable working and images ("... if anyone was offended....") That's the essence of Rovianism and the Southern Strategy, for pity's sake. Personally, I think it's entirely possible that if the Post thought the cartoon would throw red meat to its readers, then they would, in a heartbeat. What do they care about what a bunch of latte-sipping liberals think?
Oh, and if anybody said this, I missed it: let's look at the context. From the NYCLU:
And then there are incidents like Amadou_Diallo.
Now, let me try to spell it out. Since we're not writing a mathematical proof here, but examining a political cartoon from a Murdoch property, it's quite clear to the political lizard brain, if not to the tediously literal minded, that: 1. Black people == monkeys; 2. the police shot a black person, not just because the blacks == monkeys, but because the police shoot black people quite frequently; 3. this black person is whoever's responsible for the stimulus package, and 4. the monkey is Obama, since he's responsible for the stim package, and is the only black person on offer in the context.
This is not a stretch at all. It's the obvious, mainline interpretation. Complete with the ability to say "Oh, we didn't mean that," which is the scenario that played itself out.
I mean, that's what flashed through my mind when I saw it, since my brain has been so polluted by daily examination of right wing propadanda for five years, and it was so obvious there seemed no value add to posting on it. Not so, apparently.
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Especially when you take into account this artist's history
As displayed here and the non-apology apology. It really is a horrendous display of racism and insensitivity.
I'll just quote Melissa McEwan about racist intent as well.
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
Someone correct me if I'm wrong
But I seem to remember reading that even the term "monkey on my back" is a throwback to racist assumptions, since drugs were always seen as pressed on innocent whites by duplicitous brown people.
And the reason that the image of a monkey is intrinsically connected to black men, is because the racists worked really hard to make that connections over the course of a couple of centuries. You really shouldn't blame those who act against racism for that.
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
CDS alive and still strong
I simply can't believe that a lie this utterly stupid and twisted will live forever, but Hey, I just read a recent jab at Gore for claiming to invent the internet. Whatever. People choose to believe (its easier than critical thinking, I guess) and the perpetrators know this.
I tend to discount and no longer trust writers and MCMers who
use the Gore/Internet lie and other such clearly disprovable and disproved politcal fairy tales.
But, the power of repetition and narrative, as practiced by Repubs and the MCM is amazing.
Brain worms that fester and emerge as lies and duplicity, all intended to bamboozle the public and hold onto power.
I just added the comment again
[deleted]
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Lambert, just checked BagNews to see if your comment was there,
couldn't find it, then clicked open "Show More Comments," and both appeared. along with Shaw's comment that he has not deleted or edited any comments as his new comments module won't permit him doing so.
Interesting that only some were visible. Anyone know how that works?
Thanks, jawbone
I corrected the record over there, and now I'm going to correct it here (by deleting the material so it doesn't show up in Google).
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Dwelling on the primaries
This is exactly why I mention the primary so often. Until there is a large scale recognition of what happened, the risk of repeating the BS remains high. If we don't try to fix the process, it will remain broken. When the sham of a primary is being called "procedural complaints" how can you *not* expect the same thing to happen next time? When Favreau gets a promotion and many in the left laugh off as a college prank his photo, how can you expect the spurious Hillary attacks to stop?
As far as I'm concerned, the spirit of the primary lives on, complete with Obama apologisms, shoddy comparative justifications, and rampant CDS.
Only tyrants rig elections.
Power decides what must be gotten over and when
How dare you be mean to power?
A diddy to illegitimate power
To Mr. Cream My Pants and those saying to get over "procedural complaints":
You can skip to 4:10. ;)
Only tyrants rig elections.
BAG News fell victim to CDS fairly early on in the primaries and
has not gotten any therapy to get over it.
He's seen the light and, well, been blinded to reality by it.
Alas, bcz he offerend some very good insights into how the MCM selected and tilted the news, both visually and verbally. I find this analysis to be a loss, but not worth getting through the CDS crap to find.
I had not realized he was editing/censoring comments. Oh, my.