Peaches and local investing

Peaches
Peaches from Stocking’s stand outside of Sultan.

[ Welcome Crooks & Liars readers! Welcome, Naked Capitalism readers! I'm going to sticky this as Plantidote of the Day. Peaches! --lambert]

The fab GF loves peaches. We’ve had several already and even made grilled peaches by blanching them, drop a bit of butter on the top along with a dusting of sugar and cinnamon, and tossing them on a hot grill three minutes top, one minute bottom to warm up and carmelize before putting them in bowl with whipped cream.

Redundant? Yes. That is what we call hedonism. Get used to it. Damn, that was good especially with a glass of cheap Lindeman chardonnay (I don’t like most chardonnays, but those Aussies know how to make an honest white wine). Wine is one of th few things we buy that isn't from around here, unless it's Moore Cellars (which is Dave Moore's tiny little winery in Lynnwood) because that guy is a goddamn genius.

I baked the last of the bread dough for buns for the buffalo brats from Kelso’s Kustom Meats in Snohomish. One of those and some green beans from Bailey’s stand for dinner and a piece of peach cobbler for dessert. I got the cobbler recipe from AllRecipes.com instead of the usual one. No one can say I don't take cooking risks.

So that’s the peaches...

I’ve been pondering the idea of local investment for a long time. Buying local is not the same as investing local.

Depositing your money in a local bank or credit union isn’t investment either. An investment means cash, credit, goods, services, or sweat in exchange for owning a piece of someone else’s effort. You invest with the idea that you will see a material gain, usually without being involved in day-to-day operations.

It’s the local part of local investment that throws me. I know a lot of people who have projects they’re looking to get financed. They’re not asking me for money, at least not directly. They’re asking me for advice. As in, “How do I get the money?” This is often a way of asking me to find them money. For some reason, people think I have access to Bill Gates’s piggy bank or I made it big in the porn industry (everyone thinks I make porn, which I don’t and there’s no money in porn unless your brand hits it big now anyway) or I rob banks or something. Which I don’t. I know some venture capitalists (I’ve never done business with them) and my entertainment attorney has offered to set up some meetings (I haven’t taken him up on that yet), but this is nothing out of the ordinary for people who have been in business for as long as I have and do the kinds of things I do.

But of all the ideas I’ve heard, not one has interested me enough to go beyond answering some questions. I’ve been hired to write business plans and I’ve written my own (I’m supposed to be writing one now), but not once have I been even remotely tempted to kick in with someone as business partner, investor, nothing. Not once. (I have picked up partners for a couple of my projects, but we’re not talking high-buck.)

So when I look around for examples of local investments, I get stuck. Why would I care about this? I mean, most people are having a hard time making ends meet, right? Well, yes and no. Some people are realizing that they will never be able to save enough to pay for their retirement or health care bills, or their kids’ education. They’re looking to put some money somewhere so it can work for them. On the other hand, there are people with the skill, talent, and ability to start their own businesses, but the only capital they have is their own hard work.

So why not bring these two lucky kids together? No one will get stinkin’ rich, but we’re not talking about stinkin’ rich. We’re talking about opportunity and planning. The profit may be slim, but it’s still profit and that matters. And why not bring two locals together to support the local economy?

Food-based businesses appear to be an obvious path for a local business investment opportunity. Specialty or artisan bakeries, butchers, and cheesemakers, or cafes and restaurants, or craft breweries and distilleries, and so on. Yet few people looking for money have actually done their homework: What are your startup costs? What are you selling? What’s your market differentiator? What’s your breakeven? These questions are common to any business endeavor.

But the biggest issue has to do with risk/benefit. The risk is greater for a small café as it is a for a fast food empire, and the potential benefit, the payoff, for one is much smaller than for the other. Also, one can use its size to smooth out any short-term losses. Let’s say you have $5,000 to invest. You can invest in Jill’s Café, a small fresh-food operation, or you can invest in Megabeefasaurus, with thirty-four locations. Jill’s Café may be the better restaurant, but it isn’t the best investment. If Jill gets hit by a bus, you lose your $5,000. If the president of Megabeefasaurus gets hit by a bus, some other suit is ready, willing, and able to step in (not to mention the payout from Key Man insurance that Jill couldn’t afford). Yes, this is a dramatic example, but the point is the same: it doesn’t take much to derail the small operation.

And would the payout be better? You may be able to buy more importance at Jill’s, but would you profit enough to make the risk you’re taking with your $5,000 worthwhile? Probably not.

So a local investment requires something to either offset the risk or make the risk palatable. Low start-up costs may be one, though I know people who don’t see this as a benefit---has to do with sharing risk, or the perception of shared risk, as well as dilution of partnership or share. The “local” part of the local investment may be a benefit, though that could also work against you. Imagine owning an artisan bakery and your “silent partner” drops in everyday.

And yet I sense an opportunity here, one that serves to put people to work running their own businesses and put people’s money to work so they can see a fair return. I’m still puzzling it out. I think, though, that our buying local food is connected with the idea of local investing. Yes, my thoughts here are a veritable cobbler---and cobbler is, as we all know, failed pie: dough and fruit cobbled together with sugar and baked to deliciousness.

So it ain't pie*. But let's hope it's worth sharing.

*"It ain't pie" is a famous Bureau of Occult Occurrences (B.O.O.) phrase, which means, "It doesn't totally suck, but it could be better." It is often used outside of ghosthunting activities, though saying "It ain't pie" on a walkie-talkie when standing ten feet away at two o'clock in the morning would win you some serious accolades from the organization, accolades being another word for, "Here, have another B.O.O. sweatshirt."

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lambert's picture

Awesome post, Ohio

And I should have broken out the transition to investing earlier, to encourage more reads.

I'd hazard that more readers of this blog are more in the "seeking investment" category than the "investor" category. That said, everybody should share. I know in my own locality, we're looking at microloans, and I bet the same is true elsewhere.

Sounds to me like the risk might need to be spread -- what about "key person" insurance? What about government backed "key person" insurance? Or perhaps that's a business, I don't know...

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

basement angel's picture

Ditto on the microloans.

There are a couple different businesses I'm looking at starting that I can start up effectively for less than $1500. And that's not uncommon. I know that the SBC says the big reason that women's businesses are more likely to stay solvent is that they start smaller and grow slower. They don't take on large debt unnecessarily or before they are genuinely prepared.

I think part of developing an alternative economy is encouraging people to look at ways to start very, very small. Out here in LA, a booth at a market runs around $50 per week or 10% - whichever is larger. You have to buy a canopy, a table and a sign, as well as a business license and whatever county health licensing and facilities you might need to have. So, maybe $5k for a pie shop isn't the way to go. Maybe $700 to get set up a farmer's market and rent kitchen facilities so that you can grow into the shop is a better way to think about it.

I think what we're talking about is a pool investment that would be made available to many different entrepreneurs and the return would be from the pool.

"Someone needs to point out that elephants produce infinitely more shit than donkeys." Brad Mays

lambert's picture

That's the model I have in mind for here

Except not $50 a week but $20 a month, with $5 to go to our own microlending facility.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Why would someone do this?

Seriously. Why would anyone make a donation in all but name if they're looking for ROI for their personal well-being? This sounds like another non-profit among a zillion non-profits, operative word being that "non" before profit.

Grameen (sp?) does this: pools donations without any self-sustaining business in sight. I'm not saying what they do isn't important, but why cave into the non-profit model so fast?

basement angel's picture

Put in $10k, start 10 businesses and make a profit.

That's why you make it a pool. The individual investment isn't significant enough - it does feel like charity. But $10k could be paid over 2 years and return a worthwhile profit. Meantime, a lot of lives could be changed with that. It may not be as much fun as buying penny stock that zoom up to $2 a share over the course of a couple years, but it would be much, much safer.

I think the mistake is assuming that it only works as a non-profit. Why not make some money off of it? You can certainly put a larger pool of money together that way.

"Someone needs to point out that elephants produce infinitely more shit than donkeys." Brad Mays

Start 10 businesses and make a profit, easy, right?

So you guarantee all 10 will make a profit? How much profit and how long will it take?

Or maybe three of ten will make 1% profit over three years. Why not only invest in those three? How do you tell which will be profitable?

And if I'm looking to get a return on my investment so I can pay for my kid's education or my retirement, I can buy CDs or deposit into a ScottTrade account to buy stock, or in a DRIP. I can put that money into a savings account at a credit union and get a greater return and know my money is staying local.

The mistake here is assuming only potential business owners have an interest in making money. Ignoring that investors or partners want a return doesn't seem very smart.

And you being glib reminds me why I shouldn't bother with these kinds of posts. Jeebus.

lambert's picture

It's a portfolio, no? Then again, thinking like a VC...

... might not be the appropriate model for local investors.

This might be relevant: Solari. And this: Slow Money. Or not.

Ohio, if you don't give us the benefit of your talents, how are we to learn? (It's always seemed more sensible to me to learn from success rather than failure....)

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Hookfan's picture

Appropriate model for investors

depends on the investors and on the local community. If the local community is the investor, seems to me they can decide what's the appropriate model, and the values they want to see developed, and how they want it shared.

lambert's picture

Suppose our competitor was not the investment account...

... but the savings account. Bank are apparently paying 0% for savings and then taking fees. Could we beat that? If there were a portfolio, as opposed to a single business (which goes down if the owner does)?

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

lambert's picture

Profit, I would think

Profit from the store from the site, profit for the store from sales. FWIW, and you know this sort of thing better than I do, I'm betting the first 100 would be the hardest.

For example, suppose I have book to sell at $20 each. Can I sell more than one a month to cover the store fee? I'm betting I could.

Who says I'm adopting a non-profit model?

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Hookfan's picture

People self publishing

knitting books containing their designs are doing this now. In fact for some designers it's so profitable they've been able to cut out the normal magazine route and market directly to the public with success. Again one major key is access to known customers already interested in the product. advertizing and marketing costs go way down with that, so the viability goes up in that context.

lambert's picture

The phrase "bitter knitters" has not escaped my notice

Eh?

I'm also picturing ponies...

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Hookfan's picture

don't get me started

on editor's penchants to arbitrarily modify knitting designer's creations. I've heard words that make a hardened sailor blush. . .just sayin'. . .

gqmartinez's picture

What's wrong with not wanting a profit?

That's a serious question.

Only tyrants rig elections.

lambert's picture

Nothing...

... but I've also got to pay the fuel bill, and my property taxes, and neither one will take vegetables.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

gqmartinez's picture

Not thinking like a VC

That's sort of what I was getting at. I'm not saying a business shouldn't be about making money. I'm looking at the "investors". Grameen charges quite a bit of interest, as do short term (e.g. Payday) loan services (~15%). If you're struggling and living check to check chances are you aren't making a ton of money. Having to pay 15% interest means living off 85% of an already low income. I understand the risk analysis and the need to charge high interest to offset the losses. Can we do better than 15% if we think less like VCs and more like humanitarians?

Clearly out current banking system is failing the middle and lower classes. This argues that perhaps the traditional VC mindset may not be the best way for sustainable economics on smaller, local settings.

Only tyrants rig elections.

Hookfan's picture

I think we can

but it requires a different mind set than those seeking the 15%. For example, if we (some of us)apart from Lambert's concept (which for him needs to be for profit)were to establish a non profit corporation specifically designed to obtain grant money from well endowed private foundations, and receive donations from the public at large with the intent to provide supportive grants to targeted small business endeavors to help improve their viability over the first five years, it could provide a potential supplemental support for some businesses in his community etsy group. But that's just an idea of mine right now.

Hookfan's picture

Because

every small business that is helped to succeed helps the other businesses in the community profit more, as there is an increased exchange among the members. It's the community investing in itself. Why would the members not want their community to succeed? If one takes investment away from the exclusive focus on individual return on Investment and focus on the community's return on investment, the microloan concept makes more sense.

lambert's picture

What I'm also betting is that people who open a store here...

... will also drive traffic to the site to sell their products, and that's a good thing.

Shit, I think I'll set this thing up and let people play, then launch. All I've got to lose is time, plus the assets I don't have.

("Bitter knitters" (cf tricoteuse) is a reference to the 2008 primaries. It turns out that metaphorical and I think literal knitters are right down the middle of Corrente's demographic.)

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

I'm trying to present business endeavors from the other side

From an investor or partner view (haven't even touched the customer view) because business tools are useful. Also, I see opportunity to redefine ROI to include community/public benefit---can we consider investing beyond capital, but not forget profit?*

Besides, I'd like to see people succeed and while answering business questions are no guarantee, won't hurt and might help. It's not enough to have an idea or need for money.

I'd also love to see people starting businesses that make money while acting on some of their professed beliefs. For example, if you despise our consumerist society, should you start a business that relies on it for your success? That's one example---I got a lot more.

Regardless, I think about this a lot, so I welcome the exchange.

*And if the business of America is business, can we find a better way of doing it and solve our problems person by person, square foot by square foot?

basement angel's picture

No one here is suggesting that you loan

money based on an "idea" for a business or a need for money. You would screen these people the same way you would any investment. Most ultra-tiny businesses that are successfully run without the need for a lease on a commercial space are skill based. Does the person have the appropriate skills to be successful? You can even run a hair care business out of your home. Maybe you wouldn't give a new graduate from a beauty school a loan until they'd worked somewhere and built up a client list but if they have the clients and need a small amount of money for appropriate equipment, how is that a big risk?

I think where you're getting hung up with what we're saying is that you're making the assumption that the only people who need tiny loans to start businesses are people who are flaky and don't have experience at what they're doing. That assumption is incorrect. People wind up living pay check to pay check for a lot of different reasons. Flakes can easily be sorted out from people who are stable and productive.

I'm working on the farmer's market plan with a girlfriend who has lost repeated jobs over the past five years because of health issues. And she is broke, broke, broke. But the farmer's market booth would allow her to work two days a week and pay all her bills. How do we know? Because we've done the research on how much people selling in her particular niche are making by talking to people in several different markets who have vendors selling these particular wares. We know how much the product cost. We know where to buy it at the best wholesale price. There isn't a lot of guess work here. After her expenses are paid, she'll bring home between $350 and $500 per market. If she winds up in the hospital again, her friends can man the booth, or she can hire a college student for the morning for $100. Also, the markets limit the number of people in each category so that no one has competition that will threaten their viability. And it'll take several months to score a booth at a second market. Once that happens, for around $700 in start up costs, she'll wind up with a pre-tax income of around $800 per week. There are weeks where she will do much, much better than $500 and if it's a scorching hot morning, she'll do less than $500. But the markets see people in her niche stay stable for years. She'd be an awesome investment and there are a lot of people like her.

"Someone needs to point out that elephants produce infinitely more shit than donkeys." Brad Mays

lambert's picture

To answer the question, yes

I think this is a genuinely hopeful post. I'm operating on the assumption that there's tremendous innovation going on at the margins right now, in places that Our Betters have abandoned or, or worse, seek to destroy (NOLA). When the innovation reaches a certain point, it's going to need exactly this kind of thinking, Ohio. Emergent phenomenon. And hopefully a totally rhizomic endeavor with no tall poppies for the bankster overlords to lop off or rip up by the roots and repot. As it were.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

wuming's picture

Investment Circles

Hi Lambert,
I know that the Korean American community has used funding circles to build cash for small business development. My understanding is that this was/is heavily mediated by the various religious organizations. This is how Korean families have pooled their money and experience to help people start dry cleaners, liquor stores, t-shirt shops and sandwich restaurants. I think progressives could do the same. One of the issues though, that I have seen, is that the small businesses only produce enough cash to allow one family of four to have a middle class lifestyle. Not sure how to scale that.

lambert's picture

I think to a lot of people...

... a family of four having a middle class lifestyle would look pretty good. Petty bourgeios being better than lumpenproletariat, and all.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

koan's picture

Local peaches and local farm startups

1). If you havent had Ricky Martin from Martin Family Orchards' peaches / nectarines yet, sweet jesus you have not lived. Really. Ive been following these guys around the local farmer's markets for the past ten years.. evidently Cashmere is Gods Country, at least this side of Georgia.

2) Small farm and value-add startups in this area turn up at the WSU Skagit Extension small ag Expo in Stanwood every year, as well as lots of people trying to figure out how to make a go of it.

Maybe contact WSU extension and offer to run a class called "How to get my money for your farm business"? Or seriously something in that vein. Or else might just go and see who is there attending the classes trying to get themselves started. Its packed, sells out every year.

Ive attended the last two years for various things, have a look at this past year's programme for an idea of what goes on. Tremendously informative stuff, at least the lectures Ive been to, and a lot of fun on a January day.

Plus, this past year they fed us all the Prime Rib we could eat for lunch. Really, there were wagons of it.. Really made this carnivore's day!

okanogen's picture

Try the local Crawfish

Amazing that most people outside of the greater NOLA don't know there are (or could be) local fisheries in crawfish.

It's alot like Lake Superior whitefish. You probably have never heard of it, and certainly, even in Minnesota (where walleye sandwiches are the rule, though usually from Canada), you can't find a whitefish to save your life. When I went to Chicago last month, the only two restaurants I went to, a greek one and high-end restaurant named Gage both had Lake Superior whitefish on their menu.

Sometimes what is available to commercially eat locally has cultural barriers. So this is also a market opportunity. For example, in that crawfish example, there are only a handful of people doing it, and doing it part-time, the resource isn't over-taxed, and the economics seem reasonable (minimal investment, 70lbs*$2/lbs = $140 for a couple hours work for someone who is already full-time employed).

Sorry, I don't fall in love with politicians. I'm not that desperate.....

nihil obstet's picture

I'd suggest not starting to reinvent the wheel from scratch

A fair amount of work and organizing has been done on the subject of local businesses. The obvious thing on the food-growing front is the CSA movement. It works either as buying a share of the farmer's produce at the beginning of the season or as simply prepaying a certain amount (like a gift card). Either way, the farmer doesn't have to take out a loan to buy what's needed to put in the crops. I don't know how good extension services are in most states, but they have worked for years on side income for farmers' families through food products, crafts, knitting, what have you. Your state almost certainly has a small business development center. They may blow you off, but then they may not. My sense is that most community college systems have small business development programs aimed at people wanting to start their own businesses. I'd guess it's worth finding out what they do in terms of start-ups raising capital. If you have a good, active Community Development Corporation in your area, it would be good to talk to them.

None of this may turn up anything relevant, but it's usually good to know what's already out there.

A loan is not an investment

A loan is money borrowed; an investment is money spent. If you lend, a company’s obligation to you ends when the loan is paid off. If you invest in a company, you share in its success in the form of dividends and/or increased stock price. (You share in its failure by losing your money.)

Interest on a loan is not necessarily profit as you have operating expenses (related to the loan) to cover. It's only profit after you have paid your bills. Don't blow off operating expenses as the lending entity as this is a quick way to not exist any longer. Plus, people should be paid a living wage for their work and running a lending institution is work, even with volunteers. At minimum, you have to pay the electric bill to keep the servers running.

2. Local is not synonymous with online. If you are selling products you are shipping miles from point-of-production,you are benefitting from the artificially low cost of fossil fuels. If you believe that our society must turn to more sustainable practices, you have contradicted your belief. If you believe we should less fossil fuels and not more, you have contradicted your own belief. If you're buying products or services from miles away, you have moved your money out of your local community, which means it has stopped working for your community's benefit, though this of course depends on defining "local."

3. Sustainability is not a limited concept: sustainable effort is a huge part of its meaning and it applies to business in a very specific way beyond recycled paper. Risk/benefit as it applies to a sustainable economy requires redefinition of both terms. IOW, redefine ROI so it takes into account more than rate of financial return. I thought this was obvious and obviously, it wasn’t.

lambert's picture

Worth another post, Ohio!

Especially #2. Although (a) for people at the geographic margins, the only way to survive is to bring in money from "outside." Our own markets aren't big enough. (b) Any money that I make would get spent locally. (c) Online can be "local" if local people buy from it, no?

But since I'm thinking very seriously of an online exchange, these are important ideas and I've been sloppy in my thinking.

+1000 on redefining ROI. That's what Catherine Austin Fitts does.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

lambert, point taken on #2

But you can see what I mean. Also, there is room for creative thought regarding what you're doing. For example, if your online presence differentiates itself by hooking up local buyers and sellers and adds recipes, designs, etc, for buyers and bookkeeping, regional market analysis, comarketing, blah blah blah, for sellers, there could be opportunity for you and for people like cd who need to work from a home office.

Let me think of there's anymore I can say about this here.

lambert's picture

I do see what you mean

This is a very mind-expanding post. In a way, there's a paradox here in that Corrente has achieved a small, and yet national readership, and yet with a partial focus on "the local" however that may be defined. If we ask "who then is my neighbor?" (cf Luke 10:29) is it geographical proximity that is the answer? Or proximity in some other space? For example, PA_lady and I are neighbors in the sense that her issues with the Marcellus Shale and drilling are our issues with landfills and both have to do with being marginalized, extractive economies. Now, I suppose you could argue that Beck's followers are all neighbors because of their, er, concern at being overwhelmed by hordes of whatever, but I'd argue that the case is different, because we're talking about impacts on the local landscape: Airsheds, watersheds, traffic, and so forth. It's grounded, concrete.

I don't know. I think "what is local" is a good question and you might consider it.

Another answer would be to look at other footprints besides the carbon footprint. Like the "rent" footprint. Even if I sell, say, Christmas fruitcakes far away, I'm still not validating or supporting the food chain. Dunno. Local is local in some space, but what space? For example, the Village is well-taken, so what the heck is about that locality that makes it so deeply corrupted? I'm not thinking rigorously on this...

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Yes, what is local

And who is my neighbor are difficult questions demanding elegant answers. And my brain is working in less-than-elegant fashion. But I tend to think about this not based on noble sentiments as those are useless.

I'm cynical. I don't care what people say, I care what they do and getting people to do the right thing requires appealing to their baser motives. Greed is a handy thing provided it isn't mine, you see.

In addition to local is defining investment and what that entails.

Oh, well.

Hookfan's picture

Local

doesn't work well when trying to use geography or spatial proximity as a primary determining factor-- especially when you gratuitously throw in use of gas as a pejorative. Unless one limits oneself to the area one can walk (not very far if one is trying to cart 1,000 lbs to sell/trade), or use horses ,or dogs, or such. Being honest, that's not realistic in the present conditions.Heck, a multinational Corporation can be considered "local" if what is being considered is information or knowledge exchanged. Or take an online book being sold. The spatial proximity argument becomes almost absurd as " local" would be better defined on the basis of mutual interest, or even mutual endeavors.

2) As to distinctions between loan and investment seems a little artifical. For example, if I lend my time and labor to a community endeavor, seeking not exclusively my own profit, but the profit of a defined community as well, is that a loan or an investment? Seems a little of both, if I understand correctly. And a "community" that lends money, or labor, or knowledge to itself, seeking its own enhancement, and looking to participate in the benefits from that shared knowledge, or labor, is it a loan or an investment?

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