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Platinum coin enters the main stream

DCblogger's picture

Matthew Yglesias is promoting the idea and Atrios is pointing to it.

Apparently, neither Letsgetitdone nor Corrente is to have any credit, but at least the idea is getting out there.

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beowulf's picture
Submitted by beowulf on

Apparently, neither Letsgetitdone nor Corrente is to have any credit...

That must be a terrible feeling! How can you stand it?
:o)

DCblogger's picture
Submitted by DCblogger on

it was your idea originally.

letsgetitdone's picture
Submitted by letsgetitdone on

I didn't see any credit given to Beo either at either one of those blogs. I have to say that I was pretty dismayed at the low quality of comments at both of these blogs. For the most part, the quality was much worse than here, MyFDL, NC, Mike Norman, DailyKos, NEP, or anywhere else I normally frequent. One has this huge number of comments that are merely kibitzes signifying nothing.

okanogen's picture
Submitted by okanogen on

Sure, Beowolf may have been the smartest person around and the first to propose this solution (and seriously, that is very, very cool Beowolf, bravo!), but I was the first one to propose a picture of Ronald Fucking Reagan on it. How could the Republicans be against such a magnanimous bipartisan gesture? The largest currency denomination ever made, or ever will be made, bearing The Gipper's likeness?

The fact it would be most useful in undermining their entire construct of "running the government like a business" and usher in an era where is just icing on the cake. Butter on the toast. On the flip side, it's all about priorities, and the fed already spends as much as it wants to on anything it wants to. Mainly though, they want to spend money on wars, killing people, drug wars, bank bailouts, kleptocracy, etc., not full employment programs, education, health care, old people, children, sick people, etc., so not exactly sure changing the numbers will change the equation.

Basically, this society is in the process of a bust-out, if there is more money to squieeze out of the corpse, they will squeeze it out until nothing is left.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

... I think the larger point is that we have a nifty little ecosystem here that really helped to successfully propagate a wild idea from the outer edges into the mainstream.

So, congratulations to everyone....

letsgetitdone's picture
Submitted by letsgetitdone on

DCB, I was over at Mike Norman's this morning, and saw the little piece by Tom Hickey linking to this post. before hitting the link, I made this comment there:

"Thanks Tom for a little credit here, and for calling attention to the conspicuous absence of any mention of my blogging in Matty's post.

Could it be because of the title of this Post:
"Why Matt Yglesias and Felix Salmon are Wrong About A Legal Way to Circumvent the Debt Ceiling Impasse" at NC: ?

So, thanks DCB for being the original source of that credit.

Btw, Carlos (beowulf) has a new one on the coin and the debt ceiling at MMR today, where I've commented, though my comment hasn't appeared yet because I'm under moderation there: http://monetaryrealism.com/coin-of-desti...

Whether or not my comment appears there, I'll probably post it here soon. But I've been working on the final piece in my FS counter-narrative series, so it will have to wait for that.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

However, I think, from a public relations standpoint, it's the actual, physical coin that's the stumbling block, just because it's so easy to ridicule. And ridiculing The Powers That Be can only be bad!

So I think a key piece of the puzzle is to invent some way of obfuscating the actual solution. Which should be easy, since that's what the FIRE sector and the legacy parties are good at; in fact, it's their entire raison d'etre.

Perhaps something like "Coin Seignorage Warrants" (CSWs). (I'm just making up the name; I don't even know what a warrant is.)

Then the Powers That Be could pay off the debt with CSWs, which are a promise to mint the proof platinum coin should that ever become necessary, instead of actually minting it. No need for mintage or for the promise to ever be fulfilled, since the banks are sound, like, totally.

Clonal Antibody's picture
Submitted by Clonal Antibody on

Than issuing a fifty dollar gold coin, or a thousand dollar Federal Reserve Note. It is just that the nominal amount boggles the mind. The problem actually springs from the First legal Tender Act of 1862 when Lincoln Issued Greenbacks. This is a comment I put at Mike Norman Economics

The problem comes from a juxtaposition of two gold standard era laws. One - The Legal Tender Act from the Civil War era when Lincoln issued greenbacks, and the second from just before the US entry into WW-I the Second Liberty Bonds Act.

Lincolns greenbacks and all US Notes could be exchanged for gold until 1933. The US Congress fearing that the US would not be able fulfill the exchange to gold, put a limit of $250,000,000 on the amount of greenbacks that could be issued (this was later raised to $450,000,000.)

For similar reasons, the US Congress put a Debt Ceiling in place in 1917 - again to avoid problems with the convertibility to gold. The need for these laws went away for most purposes in 1933, and for all purposes in 1971.

The US Notes were not really needed once Federal Reserve notes came into existence. However the Fed Notes required a nominal borrowing of the Treasury from the Fed. This became subject to the 1917 Debt Limit. The only way to get around the debt limit was the issuance of coins - an expensive solution with the existing coin denominations - It was much easier just to raise the debt ceiling -- which was done as a matter of routine, until somebody decided to use that law as a political football.

Fortunately a way was crafted in 1996 with the Platinum Coin Act to escape this blackmail of the US people.

Clonal Antibody's picture
Submitted by Clonal Antibody on

As I stated earlier in the post, the law almost requires Geithner to issue the coinage.

From 31 USC § 5111 - Minting and issuing coins, medals, and numismatic items??

(1) shall mint and issue coins described in section 5112 of this title in amounts the Secretary decides are necessary to meet the needs of the United States;

bolds are mine

It says shall and not "can" or "may"

Section 5112 has the platinum coin references.

okanogen's picture
Submitted by okanogen on

Lambert of course brings up the main problem for the MOTU. As always, it's the optics. A "coin" is easy to make fun of (as I imply above), plus it goes hand in glove with the "printing/minting money" meme. So that is what they are primarily concerned with, the optics. Nothing new.

But say they get over that hurdle, what then? Does anyone here honestly think that getting rid of the "debt ceiling" problem is going to actually lead to restoration of food stamps cuts, a renewed CCC or WPA program, increased stimulus through infrastructure spending, universal health care? This is a process argument, not a policy one. They spend whatever they want to spend on wars and war machines and use the "debt" argument to cut everything else, but if they didn't have the "debt" argument, they would merely find another. Maybe "inflation" fear. Who knows.

I guess I'm pessimistic and cynical and expect that if they discover another tool to loot, they will use it to loot until that tool for looting (MMT in this case) has exhausted its utility.

Coin seignorage and MMT are agnostic.

letsgetitdone's picture
Submitted by letsgetitdone on

of the coin the harder it is to make fun of. It would be hard to make fun of a $60 T coin, cause once it's minted and deposited at the Fed; it's no joke! Much easier to make fun of a $500 B coin or a $1 T coin, because these don't really solve the problem of debt issuance or constraints like debt ceilings. They're just one-off band-aids to allow one to get past a crisis. However, the kleptocratic elites want a permanent crisis so they still have a reason to go after what everyone else has.