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Republican National Convention

John Sidney McCain.

One of the more frustrating things for me in this primary is the way that years of oppo that we've salted away on Republican sexual deviance and Republican torture and killing of animals has gone unused; and both issues speak directly to Republican abuses of power with easy-to-understand stories that cry out for accountability.

So what do we get? Oppo on 17-year-old girls and trash talk about special needs babies.

Gad. Both houses, plague.

And tonight, we can see how the boiz do with hatred for the old! Enjoy!

* * *

And speaking of Oppo, I keep getting biggish hits from Google images -- apparently, somebody isn't willing to link to Corrente directly, ha ha -- for this really, really not work safe post about somebody who's definitely not a 17 year old girl. I wonder why? Got a spike a couple of days ago, and now again.
* * *

Pawlenty.

Jeebus, Palin is way better than Pawlenty. "A purple heart Republican with a heart of gold."

Cat Killer Frist!

Joe Gibbs. "Who possibly could be our coach but God." Shoot me.

Lindsay Graham. "The surge was a test for Barack Obama. He failed."

Tom Ridge. Who set up the order of the speakers?!?!

John McCain. To Obama: "We are fellow Americans. And that's an association that means more to me than any other." In the background, a big field of corn. Camp!

Some disturbance from Code Pink! "Please don't be diverted by the crowd noise and the static. But Americans want us to stop us yelling at each other. These are tough times.' [crowd chants USA USA. Bizarre]

"Change is coming." Apparently, McCain intends to run against Washington. Teh funny.

"I fought lobbyists who stole from Indian Tribes." [Hope Mary Beth isn't listening; she'd have a coronary]

"Their lives should matter..." ["You are not invisible to me."]

"We lost their trust..."

Now the buzzwords: Pro-life, judges that don't legislate, etc.

"... Where a bureaucrat [boo] stands between you and your doctor ..." [Gad. Like the insurance company isn't a bureaucracy....]

Lots of talk about school choice. [Great shot of guy yawning while applauding]

"I'll ask both Democrats and Independents to serve with me." [Joe Lieberman for SecDef. Yeah, maybe that'll finally sink the little turd.]

Here we go with the POW thing. Whaddaya know -- sure, he's a lying sack of shit, but at least he has the decency to keep the focus on his fellow prisoners.

"I wasn't my own man any more; I was my country's."

"Fight with me! Fight with me! ... Nothing is inevitable here. We're Americans! We never quit!" Damn fine peroration, actually, especially given that he's not an orator.

McCain now making his way through the crowd. IIRC, Obama didn't do that.

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gqmartinez's picture
Submitted by gqmartinez on

My prediction: I will be celebrating (or mourning) the performance of my fantasy football player during McCain's speech.

Ya'll may get tingles up your legs from political speeches, but I'm cynical trailer trash and don't care what folks say, more what they actually do. And since both sides have already done things I am fundamentally opposed to, I can't vote for either one of 'em. But if I had to pick, the acceptance of fraud elections as a party invariant property of our electoral process is the most damaging outcome I can imagine.

Only tyrants rig elections.

Submitted by lambert on

There's no a continuous curve of shittiness -- it's more like a stairstep.

This year's Ds stepped down one step, at least, too far.

It will be very difficult to get me to vote for the top of the ticket in November; although things could change!

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

gqmartinez's picture
Submitted by gqmartinez on

such that it is much harder to go back up once you go down.

It's not just this election, really. It's that FL2k and OH2k4 now seem to be completely acceptable as well. If this were an isolated event, I wouldn't be so paranoid--I wouldn't like it, but wouldn't be paranoid. Three elections out of the last three have been shams and that can determine a line.

Off to watch the game. Enjoy the fact-checking and narrative building for me :p.

Only tyrants rig elections.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

I looked at that Talk Left link. Jeralyn has lost her mind over Palin. It's all Palin all the time now. It's very weird.

Something else I won't be looking at tonight if I can help it - John McCain. Hey, I heard a rumor that he was once a POW. Think he'll talk much about that? I've been told he doesn't like to.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

it's all propaganda all the time. And the posts have what looks like many fewer comments on them than just a week ago. I think that's probably her intent, since she's been uncomfortable with the intensity of the political argument and wants to go back to a sleepy but intelligent blog on crime isssues (er, or on defense of defendants' issues, I guess would be more accurate).

BTD is said to be ready to come back on Monday, so at least a little meat may return to the blog, but she's now chased away or banned most of the interesting commenters, so I don't know how long that will last. BTD has, ahem, a trigger temper on foolishness, bless his heart.

My own scream of anguish there about the baby sedation thing and the general turn of the blog was vaporized as ostensibly "off-topic," which I expected, but it's still a jolt to see it happen. At least I haven't been (oh, the horror!) "banned," but since most of the interesting people have been for one offense or another, or have left or rarely comment anymore, there's not a lot left anyway.

I think I understand where Jeralyn's coming from, but it's always sad to see the destruction of a once vibrant community of people who don't even have a way of connecting up with each other somewhere else.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

from last night - McCain is horrible with a teleprompter and will mess up all his one-liners and attacks, i'm betting.

is anything else good on tonight? tv's sucking lately more than ever, i think.

tnjen's picture
Submitted by tnjen on

Marsha Blackburn. Mississippi take her back!

PB 2.0 - Supplement the wonk!

PB 2.0 - Supplement the wonk!

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/200...
-- What Palin Offers -- and What It Would Cost --
"... their folksy common-sense, defiant courage, and religious faith are more necessary than some of us acknowledge or even understand, and therefore we may lose the election.

But common sense, defiant courage, and faith, while necessary, are not sufficient, and that is why, if McCain and Palin win, they will lose the America they mean to defend, ..."

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

piece by Sleeper. On a quick first read-through, I think he nails exactly what's going on with terrific humanity.

OTOH, I made the mistake of reading the first bunch of comments. What he said appears to have gone straight over their heads by a good 20 feet, which is depressing but not surprising given the atmosphere Josh has fostered over the last year.

D'you spose he's proud of that, btw?

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

but at least Rudy's not narrating.

chrisvee's picture
Submitted by chrisvee on

The comment at TL about Trig Palin being drugged was so beyond the pale that I was stunned. It was a new low.

I would never vote for McCain but I'm quite disgusted at the tactics being used to promote Obama.

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

statement that the infant hadn't cried "all day." He was in public view for maybe 10 minutes at the airport and another hour at the convention. This is "all day"?

That kind of statement is just going over to the dark side, IMO.

Submitted by lambert on

I feel sleepy already.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

Nicely done Democrats! You managed to turn someone nobody had ever heard of into Must See TV.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

there's no way in hell that many ppl would have watched a Republican convention nowadays.

Submitted by lambert on

Guess the west is his target!

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Submitted by katiebird (not verified) on

It made me feel very nostalgic for my childhood to see Trig passed from person-to-person like that last night.

(In reply to the comments about Trig. Not to be considered a political endorsement. I'm undecided.)

Submitted by lambert on

I'm so excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Submitted by katiebird (not verified) on

That string of comments makes me sick. Furious. And I don't ever want to go back to Talk Left. Jeralyn has revealed herself to be just another Markos.

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

I think she's wildly conflicted, very unhappy about politics, yada yada yada. She's ordinarily not a mean person, but like too many, something about Palin (no idea what specifically) has struck a very raw nerve and she's lashing out. The fact that a fair number who *used to* comment actively on her blog have been defending the woman from the ugliest of the attacks on her seems to have pushed J around the bend.

I dunno. I like Jeralyn and found a comfortable home on her blog for months, so I'm struggling to come to terms with what's happened there.

Submitted by Paul_Lukasiak on

than it has to do with her "conversion" at the convention -- attacking Palin is all about avoidance of confronting the fact that four days of peer pressure from the Obamasphere changed her from "not voting to Obama because of Biden" to "enthusiastic about Obama."

In other words, she's attacking Palin in order to convince herself. Without Palin, she'd be just as nuts -- merely nuts about other things.

DCblogger's picture
Submitted by DCblogger on

his delivery is very flat.

TreeHugger's picture
Submitted by TreeHugger on

The Obama campaign tactics made me do it. I confess to secretly tuning in to right wingnut radio. Another absolute first for me: watching some of the republican national convention.

My take-away: I still am in total disagreement with their policies, but I am seeing them as people, not the caricatures as portrayed by the left, for the first time in my life...and for that I am thankful.

That said, however, their koolaid is genuinely toxic.

Swift Loris's picture
Submitted by Swift Loris on

I haven't yet tuned in to right-wing radio, and I haven't watched any of the Republican convention except for Rudy and Palin last night, but otherwise you describe exactly where I'm at.

It's scary because it's unfamiliar, but I can't see how it could possibly not be a Good Thing.

Over on TalkLeft a few days ago, the deeply wise Frankly0 nailed it:

"On some level, if people don't grasp that someone can adopt a different ideology from yours and still be a good and decent person, then you've lost some important moral faculty."

I'm afraid that had been the case with me since the Clinton impeachment. But I've Seen the Light, at least with regard to the Republicans. Now I have to be careful I don't swing too far the other way and stop being able to see the Obamacans who inadvertently triggered this awakening as people.

That may be difficult. The sedated-baby bit on TalkLeft was the straw the camel stepped on and broke.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

I'd listen to right-wing radio except possibly to point and laugh at the stupidity. Just because Ed Schultz and Stephanie Miller are morons it doesn't mean Rush Limbaugh is worth listening to. Buy an ipod for goddess' sake.

Maybe it's because I grew up with Republican parents (left the GOP during the Clinton Administration over the panty sniffing) and was briefly one as a result until I was about 20, but I've never had a problem seeing Republicans as people. Many of them these days, however, are very bad people (the party people not necessarily the voters). They've driven a lot of the good ones out of the party and replaced them with conservative nutjobs.

Just because the Democrats are corrupt and awful, doesn't mean that the modern day GOP doesn't have a heart of darkness.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

Well said, Swift. I'm in exactly the same place. I still can't tolerate right or left-wing talk radio as it has evolved, but I think I've been permanently cured of reflexive demonization of people whose politics or religion I don't share.

I'm daily reminded of Rev. Bill Coffin's really Dalai Lama-like observation that "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing."

That's the most profound thing anybody ever said to me. It's truly humbling, and remembering it is humility-inducing.

And on a purely practical level, we can never be successful at fighting through right-wing propagand if we can't put our feet in the other guy's shoes and understand why the propaganda speaks so strongly to ther people's beliefs and aspirations.

There were some lines in Palin's speech the other night that made me cringe violently, but at this point in recent political history, a great deal of it had me shouting "Yes!" So now I understand much more fully some Republican voters' deep, deep resentment of typical Democratic politics.

It's been an eye-opening political year, and mostly not in a good way.

gqmartinez's picture
Submitted by gqmartinez on

Exactly. And that's why the acceptance of a fraud election three cycles in a row scares the crap out of me. Obama supporters think they are "right enough" to engage in fraudulent activity, but so do the cheaters from 2000 and 2004. Obama may be the savior of the world, but if the system becomes completely corrupted, what happens when the next person--more "evil" than McCain--feels they can cheat to win...and they win by cheating? Its scary, scary for me.

My biggest take-home from years of philosophy is that humans are fallible and prone to mistake. I'm not a full-on philosophical skeptic, but I am skeptical of my infallibility. That realization has made me more tolerant of others with differing views.

Only tyrants rig elections.

Submitted by katiebird (not verified) on

And this is the first Republican Convention I've watched. Amazing what a change being uncommitted makes.

It's like listening to people speaking another language.

Iphie's picture
Submitted by Iphie on

Especially right now, when (theoretically) more people will be tuning in.

First,
- Heart - Barracuda (okay, I understand choosing the only song named Barracuda, still not creating the most up-to-date image though.)
- Earth Wind & Fire - September (shouldn't that have been Giuliani's song, just to be fair?)
- Kool and the Gang - Celebrate

Is anybody else sensing a theme here with women and AA musicians?

John Fogerty - okay, that's making a little more sense.

Could it be that so many currently producing musicians have asked the Republicans not to use their songs that the only thing left to them is decades old?

Corner Stone's picture
Submitted by Corner Stone on

John McCain may be the worst successful national politician I've ever heard speak. He is horrendous.
I really don't have the words to describe how painful his delivery was.
Gah.

Submitted by lambert on

He just danced with somebody!

It wasn't a great speech. But it was a good speech, and McCain's no orator.

There's a lot to be said for the balloon drop. They're getting good TV out of it.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

DCblogger's picture
Submitted by DCblogger on

they look insipid after the fireworks of Denver.

Submitted by lambert on

They're getting good TV out of it too, as the candidates work the crowd. (Did Obama do that?)

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Submitted by jawbone on

experience that changed him--I actually found that riveting. Then, I may have tuned out again, caught the "stand with me and fight" trope at the very end. Not badly done.

The first part and some others I dipped into? Boooooooring. I had to clean out the cats' pans and take out the garbage....

BTW, some are saying Palin's speech last night was like Buchanan's terrible nationalist speech of, when, Poppy's 1st or 2nd convention? My memory of that Buchanan speech was that it was pure raw meat, red in tooth and claw.

Palin's? Huh?

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

Palin is trying to hide the fact she's very far right, Buchanan reveled in it.

Not to mention that part of Palin's culture war riff was throwing Obama's bitter remarks back in his face. That's just solid politics, using an opponent's self-inflicted wound.

Don't get me wrong, the culture stuff was there, but it was nowhere near the hysteric pitch Buchanan had in 1992. His speech was an explicit call to arms in the culture war:

Mr Clinton, however, has a different agenda.

At its top is unrestricted abortion on demand. When the Irish-Catholic governor of Pennsylvania, Robert Casey, asked to say a few words on behalf of the 25 million unborn children destroyed since Roe v Wade, he was told there was no place for him at the podium of Bill Clinton's convention, no room at the inn.

Yet a militant leader of the homosexual rights movement could rise at that convention and exult: "Bill Clinton and Al Gore represent the most pro-lesbian and pro-gay ticket in history." And so they do.

Bill Clinton supports school choice--but only for state-run schools. Parents who send their children to Christian schools, or Catholic schools, need not apply.

Elect me, and you get two for the price of one, Mr Clinton says of his lawyer-spouse. And what does Hillary believe? Well, Hillary believes that 12-year-olds should have a right to sue their parents, and she has compared marriage as an institution to slavery--and life on an Indian reservation.

Well, speak for yourself, Hillary.

Friends, this is radical feminism. The agenda Clinton & Clinton would impose on America--abortion on demand, a litmus test for the Supreme Court, homosexual rights, discrimination against religious schools, women in combat--that's change, all right. But it is not the kind of change America wants. It is not the kind of change America needs. And it is not the kind of change we can tolerate in a nation that we still call God's country.

A president is also commander in chief, the man we empower to send sons and brothers, fathers and friends, to war.

George Bush was 17 when they bombed Pearl Harbor. He left his high school class, walked down to the recruiting office, and signed up to become the youngest fighter pilot in the Pacific war. And Mr Clinton? When Bill Clinton's turn came in Vietnam, he sat up in a dormitory in Oxford, England, and figured out how to dodge the draft.

Which of these two men has won the moral authority to call on Americans to put their lives at risk? I suggest, respectfully, it is the patriot and war hero, Navy Lieutenant J. G. George Herbert Walker Bush.

My friends, this campaign is about philosophy, and it is about character; and George Bush wins on both counts--going away; and it is time all of us came home and stood beside him.

As running mate, Mr Clinton chose Albert Gore. And just how moderate is Prince Albert? Well, according to the Taxpayers Union, Al Gore beat out Teddy Kennedy, two straight years, for the title of biggest spender in the Senate.

And Teddy Kennedy isn't moderate about anything.

In New York, Mr Gore made a startling declaration. Henceforth, he said, the "central organizing principle" of all governments must be: the environment.

Wrong, Albert!

The central organizing principle of this republic is freedom. And from the ancient forests of Oregon, to the Inland Empire of California, America's great middle class has got to start standing up to the environmental extremists who put insects, rats and birds ahead of families, workers and jobs.

[Snip]

My friends, this election is about much more than who gets what. It is about who we are. It is about what we believe. It is about what we stand for as Americans. There is a religious war going on in our country for the soul of America. It is a cultural war, as critical to the kind of nation we will one day be as was the Cold War itself. And in that struggle for the soul of America, Clinton & Clinton are on the other side, and George Bush is on our side. And so, we have to come home, and stand beside him.

[Snip]

Friends, in those wonderful 25 weeks, the saddest days were the days of the bloody riot in LA, the worst in our history. But even out of that awful tragedy can come a message of hope.

Hours after the violence ended I visited the Army compound in south LA, where an officer of the 18th Cavalry, that had come to rescue the city, introduced me to two of his troopers. They could not have been 20 years old. He told them to recount their story.

They had come into LA late on the 2nd day, and they walked up a dark street, where the mob had looted and burned every building but one, a convalescent home for the aged. The mob was heading in, to ransack and loot the apartments of the terrified old men and women. When the troopers arrived, M-16s at the ready, the mob threatened and cursed, but the mob retreated. It had met the one thing that could stop it: force, rooted in justice, backed by courage.

Greater love than this hath no man than that he lay down his life for his friend. Here were 19-year-old boys ready to lay down their lives to stop a mob from molesting old people they did not even know. And as they took back the streets of LA, block by block, so we must take back our cities, and take back our culture, and take back our country.

As the late Molly Ivins noted at the time, it probably sounded better in the original German.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

Corner Stone's picture
Submitted by Corner Stone on

I honestly don't know how to relate to that.
But when he said tonight "they broke me" or words to that effect - that really stuck with me.
Don't get me wrong, I disagree with everything McCain is about and I've seen all his POW claims before now but that sank in.
To speak to that vulnerability is a change from where JSM has been - ISTM.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

the smackdowns and canceling of Larry King really made a difference, i guess.

Submitted by jawbone on

Guy was laughing and grinning.

Repubs do know how to do balloons....

McCain and Palin, with spouses, spending quite a bit time on the main floor. Nice touch.

Repubs have fewer delegates, right? So need smaller venue? I had the feeling in Denver that the venue swallowed up the crowd and the stage made the speakers seem very far away from the people. The Repubs seemed to create the impression that their delegates were much closer to the speakers.

Mandos's picture
Submitted by Mandos on

I think that John McCain did well enough, said the things he needed to say, and delivered it well enough too. He needed to meet expectations in order to be excellent, and he met them and then some.

The reaction to the Palin and the McCain speeches along some of the US liberal blogs makes me seriously wonder whether I was listening to the same thing they were.

Submitted by lambert on

Apparently, misogyny is a "progressive" value, so maybe we'd better stick with liberal after all.

Yes, it's like they're Obama campaign embeds. Useless.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Mandos's picture
Submitted by Mandos on

The main thing he needed to do was to be the sugar to Palin's spice. And he was. Relentlessly upbeat, all about service to country, he wiped the mental slate clean of the Bush administration. If you can't imagine that someone can do this, you have no business talking about electoral politics.

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

at least, literally are dominated by Obama campaign embeds, as far as I can tell.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

being the new civil rights movement? (it's really hard to pay attention to the content in his speeches--his delivery is so bad)

scoutt's picture
Submitted by scoutt on

I'm utterly depresssed after watching the R convention. I was reminded how fiercely I disagree with them. The U - S - A chanting was kinda freaking me out. But I no longer trust my old party. They now disgust me as well. They have shown the same blind hatred that I used to only think R's were capable of. I don't want anyone to win. I have become what they've been calling us for months now - a bitter, dried out, hopeless dead ender.

Hillary Clinton, The Man of My Dreams

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

it's like they're barely trying--like they can't even muster the energy to trash McCain properly.

that's common, i find--the level of hate for McCain is very very low compared to how they hated on Hillary.

Submitted by lambert on

See Cannonfire on the quality of hate:

To prove the point, consider the "quality of hate" on display at the big progblogs. We know how the lefties treated -- and continue to treat -- Hillary and Bill Clinton: Lies, smears, incessant insults, eliminationist rhetoric, and outright death threats. In short, progs treated us to the most hate-fueled, hysterical, poisonous, vile, disgusting and indefensible campaign in American history.

Can the bots muster up the same murderous rage toward John McCain?

They're trying. I must give them credit for trying. Some of them obviously want to seem enraged and bile-filled. But you can tell that their heart just ain't in it, that the bots make the effort simply to keep up appearances. Take a big whiff, and you can't help noticing that those old toxic vapors no longer scent the air.

Until someone mentions Hillary or Bill, that is. Those names will bring back the poison.

I think they did pretty well on Palin, although they only had a few days to work with.

Interesting. Can't work up the hate for McCain, can for Palin. I wonder why?

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

it's like everyone goes "eh" and shrugs their shoulders when it comes to him, which gives him the advantage--especially since the Obama campaign are not at all hitting hard at all either.

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

that's been preoccupying me for the last week. It's on glorious display on some threads here at Corrrente, too, in case you hadn't noticed. :-)

Why? McCain is the main man. Why the ferocious focus on Palin?

Worth thinking about quite a bit, I believe.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on


When did the presidential campaign become a contest for VP between Obama and Palin?

That's really what the focus on Palin and the ferocity of attacks have accomplished. It's diminished Obama, IMO, by essentially pitting him against the GOP VP candidate. All of these arguments about why Obama is so much more experienced than Palin just make it seem like he'd be a better VP pick. In that sense, I think using Palin as an attack dog might work because the Blogger Boiz can't help themselves with their hate where she's concerned and so will continue to focus on her instead of McCain. They don't seem capable of aiming true fury at McCain. Their hearts just aren't in it. Which is telling isn't it? But it's also a bad dynamic for Democrats, IMO.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

he's been on all week as part of the Dems talk back after each night of the RNC (last wk King had Repubs every night)-- is awful...a terrible attack dog.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

Is it wrong that I laughed my ass off to see them hitting Obama over the crap that's been said about her family on Kos? Or that they're calling Kos and the people there "Obama-Biden Democrats" to use them to get to Obama (a fair point, IMO). I may think Palin is Satan, but schadenfreude is still schadenfreude.

And, ouch, it's gotta sting that when she brings up present votes, the media now explains what she's talking about without giving the Obama spin. When Hillary did it, it was always followed by Obama's lame explanations (and they are lame).

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

intranets's picture
Submitted by intranets on

can my little illustrative cheeto graphic be used now??

Corner Stone's picture
Submitted by Corner Stone on

Obama will have to give a speech saying something like, "I could no more throw Kos under the bus than I could my own racist grandmother." Or words to that effect.
Once that happens get ready for the Kos Bus Watch - for reals this time.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

Pelosi needs to go away immediately.

gqmartinez's picture
Submitted by gqmartinez on

The most interesting result, IMO, was from this question:

54% - helping Barack Obama
8% - helping John McCain
35% - being for both

Even more interesting is the ideological break-down: Indies are in between Dems and GOPers but over 50% for Obama.

Nothing riles up the base like good ol' fashion "liberal media bias". Me thinks MSNBC et al may be going too far in their fawning. A lot of people came to support Hillary because the negative press was so bad and they started looking more fully at the candidates, and ended up falling for Hillary. (Seriously, the PUMA I talk to weren't Hillary supporters initially.)

Only tyrants rig elections.

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

"A lot of people came to support Hillary because the negative press was so bad and they started looking more fully at the candidates, and ended up falling for Hillary. (Seriously, the PUMA I talk to weren’t Hillary supporters initially.)"

That was absolutely 100 percent my trajectory as an Edwards supporter intially.

(Disclaimer: Not an official PUMA, but basically sympathetic)

Damon's picture
Submitted by Damon on

Unlike other nights, I tuned in only so long as to see McCain's speech, and here is what I saw:

- This is easily the best speech McCain has ever given. Technically, he was on point with his pacing. Problem is, that's not saying a lot. Apply the "2% Less Crappy" doctrine, here.

- After seeing his speech, at least in my opinion, it made Palin's look overly mean and sophomoric. I'm still wondering if they want to make her into an attack dog, or if that is who she naturally is. Like I said last night, I still think her speech did what it's supposed to do, but I wonder if more people would have liked to have heard more about her instead of her trashing of Obama?

- More chantings of "USA! USA!" It's so ultra-defensive and nativist it makes my ears bleed.

- I disagree with McCain on most all of his major stances, but, god, when I looked at him tonight you can not doubt his sincerity for a moment. I saw a sign in the audience that said "Change You Can Trust". That change may be terrible change, but you better believe when McCain says he's going to do something he's going to do it, or die trying.

- If Obama thought he was going to get away without John McCain trying to trust-bust his monopoly on "Hope & Change", he's wrong. In my opinion, both McCain and Palin effectively painted themselves as equal if not greater agents of change.

- This totally threw me for a loop, but I didn't find references and retelling of the POW story on any of the nights to be cheap, tawdry, or overdone. And it was made a point quite a few times that he does not believe that qualifies anyone to be president.

McCain simply looked like the same guy that ran in 2000, last night, and if he hopes to win he has to continue to look like that guy, because the McCain of 2008 is simply horrible and extreme on policy.

But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...

tnjen's picture
Submitted by tnjen on

...is her natural state. You don't get the nickname Barracuda by being 'nice.' Also, my SO noticed last night when CNN was interviewing the sister that the sister was taken aback at hearing the the term. I think they turned a high school derogative into a 'positive' with the whole bball cover story.

PB 2.0 - Supplement the wonk!

PB 2.0 - Supplement the wonk!

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

also--this is silly, but--even the beauty pageant stuff feeds into it maybe too--we've all seen so many movies and stuff about how vicious it gets.

Submitted by hipparchia on

she appears to have been born super-ambitious and aggressive, but i'm guessing it's also going to be her job in the campaign.

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

were apparently not a response to McCain but a pre-planned response by delegates to the protesters who somehow got in and repeatedly tried to interrupt McCain's speech.

Not pretty, but not as ugly as random break-outs of unprovoked nativist "USA" chants.

Submitted by lambert on

Like Clinton in February, McCain throws caution to the wind, and starts being who he really is (and granted, that's hard with a politician, but still). Sort of an "If I'm going to go down, I'll do it my way" type of attitude.

Keying off my horror at finding, with DamonMI, that I felt McCain told the POW story with dignity. Of course, not all shared this reaction (see update at "above his chest").

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

ChicagoGuy's picture
Submitted by ChicagoGuy on

do you see it now? Her comment on the baby was beyond the pale.

"Damn fine peroration"

I didn't think he did that any better than he'd done it on previous occasions. I was thinking he would sound more like he did in his commercial Man in The Arena.

Damon's picture
Submitted by Damon on

Some of the USA! chants were response to the protestors. Many more rose organically throughout the speech when McCain mentioned "my county", unless I missed something.

But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

I should have said "most." At least, that was my impression. The apparently non-reactive "USA" chants I heard much more in the lead-up to McCain.

Not trying to excuse Republican goonishness, just trying not to tar them with anytjing more than they deserve, which is plenty enough for me.

Valhalla's picture
Submitted by Valhalla on

I find myself arguing a whole lot for accurate statements of fact these days, and trying to explain why someone would hold a viewpoint in response to arguments like 'anyone who doesn't vote for Obama is stupid' lately.

Although that's partly because I grew up as part of the working class in a fairly conservative area (well, for Mass.), and now am surrounded largely by the 'creative class'. Sigh. Lots of idealism about helping others, but not a lot of empathy.

I finally figured out why the low/high info dichotomy bugs me. (btw, ever notice there are no 'medium' info voters? Wonder where they hang out.) It's slapping a patina of sociological jargon, i.e. essentially neutral and academic-sounding, onto what really amounts to 'you're stupid/we're smart'. If your opinion or argument is that only stupid people don't support Obama, then make it out in the open, don't hide behind the crap-talk.

As to TL -- at the end of the day the only rules that work to promote decent discussion are ones that are content-neutral and nonarbitrary, and applied in a nonarbitrary manner. Rules like no insults, no swearing, no chattering (although that last one is challenging to apply nonarbitrarily), no ad hominems, etc.

Even the no organizing or no shilling for candidates other than Obama was ok, even though not content neutral. It was banning a function, rather than discussion or argument content.

Because the problem is not that we have too little condescension from our tribe. -- okanogen

MOBlue's picture
Submitted by MOBlue on

as Democratic politicians and commenters compete with Republicans on who can be the slimiest. Beyond the pale indeed.

Speculating that a mother is drugging her child or is allowing her child to be drugged is IMO the equivalent of starting a malicious unfounded rumor that this is true.

Politically I disagree with everything that is Republican but this type of behavior is not acceptable to me. The question now becomes "Who Kidnapped Jeralyn?"