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Rick Warren's Connections to Joel's Army

dogemperor's picture

Nearly two and a half years to the day, I wrote an early article detailing Rick Warren's connections with Paul Yonggi Cho nee David Yonggi Cho--a figure who is practically at Ground Zero regarding the continued perpetuation and promotion of what has been termed "Latter Rain", evolved into "Joel's Army", and is known now as the "New Apostolic Reformation".

This early post has gained sudden relevance now with Rick Warren now being chosen as the pastor to give the inauguration prayer on 20 January.

This is also rather unfortunate, as it turns out that Rick Warren's connections to "Elijah's Army" go farther than trading tips with Cho on megachurch growth...far deeper.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave

Quite possibly one of the earliest warning signs of the level of Rick Warren's ongoing embrace of NAR groups dates from the famous Talk to Action series on the "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" game--a game which had connections to Saddleback via the international church director (later forced to step down from both Left Behind Games' board and Saddleback's board due to the controversy).

As it turns out, the initial article hints at Warren actually using a variant of what is known now as the "Seven Mountains" Strategy--a literal NAR playbook on how to essentially set up a Joel's Army "fifth column" to take over the very foundations of modern society:

A key aspect of dominionist thought is a conviction that the Scripture gives the church a mandate to take dominion over this world socially and culturally before the return of Jesus Christ. Mr. Warren's global plan is a strategy to realize a dominionist vision of churches, states, and corporations forming partnerships to bring about a new world order to make way for Christ's return by establishing a literal, physical kingdom of God on earth. In order to build this earthly kingdom, Mr. Warren plans marketplace ministries - business ventures with a veneer of missionary compassion that slip into a country in order to transform it systematically through the governmental, corporate, and social sectors. And that is why Mr. Warren calls himself a "stealth evangelist" - because he wishes to cloak his dominionist agenda, which is the establishment of an earthly kingdom that reflects his skewed vision of Christianity.

According to Mr. Warren, the establishment of this earthly kingdom requires "foot soldiers." As part of his plan, Mr. Warren said he would encourage laypeople to "adopt" needy villages overseas in order to plant churches, expand business opportunities, educate children, influence governments, and overthrow corrupt political leaders, whom he described as "little Saddams." Mr. Warren said his purpose is to enlist "one billion foot soldiers for the Kingdom of God" in the developing world. And the stadium crowd roared its approval.

It literally did not hit me until sections of the "Seven Mountains" Strategy publicised in the "Transformations" videos were analysed: the "P.E.A.C.E. Plan" (which Warren loves to promote as the great cure-all for whatever ails the world) would seem to be simply a kinder, gentler--or, more likely, simply rebranded--version of "Seven Mountains", complete with some of the specific "targets" being identical (including government, the church, and businesses).

In fact, here it is right from Rick Warren's mouth:

What are the problems that are so big in this world that don't seem solvable? The UN has failed at them. America has failed at them. Business has failed at them. Governments have failed at them. I came to the conclusion that there are several big problems--the global Goliaths.

Number one is spiritual emptiness. Most people don't know that they're not an accident. That they were made by God and for God, they were made for a purpose, this life is not all there is, they're made to last forever. This life is preparation for the next. Jesus came to earth so that their past can be forgiven, they have a purpose for living, and a home in heaven.

The second biggest problem is egocentric leadership. Poor leadership is the cause of poverty and disease and illiteracy. They tried to solve these problems without the church which is the only thing big enough. The only thing growing faster than the AIDS pandemic is the church.

I went to the scriptures and I said, "God, what is the plan?" That is where I came up with this PEACE plan, the antidote to these global giants.

P - Plant a church or partner with a church if there is one there. It always starts with a church... in, through, and to the church.
E - Equip servant leaders.
A - Assist the poor.
C - Care for the sick.
E - Educate the next generation.

It's the five things Jesus did when he was here on earth. The first thing he did was he planted a church. The second thing he did was equip leaders. He spent three years training these disciples. The third thing he did was he cared for the poor. In fact, in his very first sermon, he says, "I am here to preach the good news to the poor." He cared for the poor. Fourth, he healed the sick. One-third of his ministry was a health ministry. The fifth thing is he taught. Particularly he cared about the next generation.

So for the last two years, underground, stealth, we have been working on this PEACE Plan. We've been developing a prototype of it in 47 countries. We won't let anybody do the PEACE plan by themselves. You have to do it in a team, in community.

There are 2.1 billion people who claim to be followers of Christ. If you just mobilize half of them that would be a billion people. That would be quite a force.

Quite literally, Thomas Muthee covered the same points in his now-infamous speech at Wasilla A/G:

In a moment, I’ll be asking you that we pray for Sarah, and I’ll tell you the reason why. When we talk about transformation of a community, we are talking about God invading seven areas in our society. Let me repeat that one more time. When we talk about transformation of a society, a community, it’s where we see God’s Kingdom infiltrate, influence seven areas in our society.

Number one is the spiritual aspect of our society. Mainly, the church for a long has just concentrated on that dimension, whereby we simply want people saved, we want them to go to heaven, we want them delivered, and that’s it. But I’ll tell you something: if all we do is come to the church and get people saved and then they go, I don’t think much will happen in our society.

So the second area whereby God wants to penetrate in our society is in the economic area. The Bible says the wealth of the wicked is stored up for the righteous. It is high time that we have top Christian businessmen, businesswomen, bankers, you know, who are men and women of integrity, running the economics of our nations. That’s what we are waiting for. That’s part and parcel of transformation. If you look at the Israelites, you know, that’s how they won. And that’s how they are, even today. When we will see that, you know, the talk transport us in the lands. We see, you know, the bankers. We see the people holding the paths. They are believers. We will not have the kind of corruption that we are hearing in our societies.

So we go to the third area, it’s in the area of politics. Tell your neighbor, "politics." Do you know what I discovered? This is funny. The people who actually split churches, they have the gift of politics, but they are exercising it in the wrong place. That’s what I came to know. There are people who are wired to politics because God wants to take the political, you know, dimension of our societies. And those people should be prayed for. That’s why I was, you know, I was so glad to see Sarah here. We should pray for her, we should back her up. And, you know, come the day of voting, we should be there, not just praying, we should be there. And I’m saying this because that’s what I’m telling our church. I’m telling them that we need this in Parliament. In here is what you call Congressmen, you know, you know, the, the Governors, we need the bretheren right inside there. Is anybody hearing me?

You know, because who will change the laws of the lands? The problem is do we just pray, but we do nothing about it. If the believers had not done something in this country, your president would not be in office today. Yes or no? Am I right?

Number three, or number four, it’s the area of education. We need believers who are educationists. If we had them, today we would not be talking about the Ten Commandments being kicked out of the church, I mean out of our schools. They would still be there. One of the things that you, you know, I would love you to know, I’m a child of revival of the Seventies, and that revival swept through the schools. They are open to preaching, you know, open. Open. Wide open. You go to any school, there is what we call Christian Union. Christian Union is nothing more but a bunch of kids that are born again, spirit-filled, tongue-talking, devil-casting. Is anybody hearing me? All over the country! Is anybody hearing me?

We need God taking over our education system! Otherwise, we, if we have God in our schools, we will not have kids being taught, you know, how to worship Buddha, how to worship Mohammed, we will not have in the curriculum witchcraft and sorcery. Is anybody hearing me?

The other area is in the area of media. We need believers in the media. We need God taking over the media in our lands. Otherwise we will not have all the junk coming out of, you know, coming out of the media. And not only that, we need God t___ [period of silence in video]. Why can’t we have our living church in Hollywood? Guess what will happen. If we have a living church right in Hollywood, we would not have all the kind of pornography that we are having. Is anybody hearing me?

And the last area is in the area of government. Hello? We need believers there. We need men and women of integrity. You know, as the Secretaries of State. We need them right there. People that are born again, spirit filled, people who know God, and people who are serious with God.

It's also notable that Warren has a strong emphasis on what he terms "Stealth evangelism"--which can be more properly termed "bait and switch" evangelism, and is a hallmark of both coercive religious groups (who tend to use deceptive methods of recruitment) and particularly NAR-linked neopentecostal dominionist groups. (The "Alpha Course", a bait-and-switch recruitment campaign developed by a CoE church steeplejacked by a Vineyard-linked "Cuckoo church", is a particularly popular method--people get pulled in by dinner dates and are eventually pressured to go to weekend "retreats" where particularly hard-sell conversion tactics are used (such as Matt Taibbi rather famously described re a John Hagee "Deliverance Weekend"). It is also notable that the "Alpha Course" has been officially endorsed by Saddleback Church.)

As it turns out, I'm not alone in noticing the Joel's Army linkage--Let Us Reason (an anti-dominionist Christian apologetics site that is very aggressive at monitoring and warning against the NAR targeting evangelical churches) has also noticed this strong similarity:

1. The term “transformation” is used to describe a planned, intentional “Second Reformation” (also called “New Apostolic Reformation”). An early proposal for a “second Protestant reformation” appeared in The Emerging Order (1979) by New Ager Jeremy Rifkin, who called for a re-definition of Genesis 1 to create a stewardship mandate for a dominion over the earth. Rick Warren, of purpose-driven fame, positively referenced Rifkin’s proposal for this new Reformation. Just this year Warren launched what he calls the “Second Reformation.” Other evangelical leaders calling for this new reformation include Ralph Neighbour, Bill Hamon, Luis Bush, C. Peter Wagner, Jim Rutz, Robert Schuller, Donald Miller and many others.

2) This “transformation” is not personal but is applied corporately to groups and entities. One example is: “Social transformation was defined as seeking positive change in the whole of human life materially, socially and spiritually, by recovering our true identity as human beings created in the image of God and discovering our true vocation as productive stewards, faithfully caring for our world and its people.”

3) This “transformation” is to be accomplished by a “mission” strategy of doing “whatever it takes” to launch political, social, and cultural reforms on a global scale. A philosophy of “the end justifies the means” has been embraced to accomplish these colossal goals.

4) Extremely sophisticated psycho-social marketing techniques are employed to facilitate this “transformation.”

5) State-of-the-art statistical measurement and assessment methods evaluate this “transformation,” judging “effectiveness” by pre-set, man-made criteria.

6) A plethora of intricate spiritual activities with new names, new techniques, new methodologies, and new doctrines purportedly cause “transformation” to take place in the heavenlies and then on earth. These include strategic-level spiritual warfare, identificational repentance, prayer evangelism, on-site praying, spiritual mapping, prayer walks, labyrinths, spiritual formation, and a host of other newly-concocted doctrines with corresponding activities. (The reader is challenged to find any of these in the Bible.)

7) A re-alignment of church hierarchical structures, not unlike network marketing, is said to be essential for “transformation” to take place.

8) These new authority and accountability structures must be superimposed between believers and God. The model is touted as a return to the early New Testament model, in which churches met in homes. In reality it is a data-driven model with a top-down hierarchy of authority and control. It is variously called cell church, G12, shepherding, House2House, etc.

9) This “transformation” dialectically thrives on a diet of constant change which is accelerating rapidly. Continuous change in the church is pointed to as “revival,” despite the fact that it utilizes business marketing methods such as Total Quality Management.

10) The claim is made that submitting to and participating in this radical and comprehensive “transformation” is necessary to fulfill the Great Commission. Thus “transformation” has been inextricably linked to the modern missions movement.

11) This “transformation” is said to be incomplete until the Bride of Christ is perfected on earth and “God’s kingdom is seen on earth as it is in heaven.

12) Therefore, believers are told they are co-creators and co-redeemers, renewing the earth through their various “transformative” activities.

(The original article at Let Us Reason has extensive footnotes and documentation. In a pattern that is all too common in research of New Apostolic Reformation groups and those tied to them, the vast majority of detailed info on practices tends to be from--ironically--conservative Christians highly opposed to dominionism. Yes, they do exist. :3)

For that matter, it can be argued that Warren's talk of a "Second Reformation" is itself a bit of a NAR dogwhistle--neopentecostal dominionists, and particularly NAR neopente-dominionists, *do* see themselves as a second reformation, or as a "Third Wave" of pentecostalism (which they see in and of itself as a "Second Reformation"). The actual term "Second Reformation" itself has also shown up in Joel's Army circles proper on occasion.

At least one site has directly compared the tactics of Warren and NAR-linked groups such as Youth With A Mission and C. Peter Wagner's various orgs:

Rick Warren and many other postmodern types of ministries have approached evangelism from a new paradigm. This model has changed from using the Word of God, to building relationships and becoming friends and then eventually Christianizing them, not to a real conversion in Christ, but to the tune of a different gospel, even a different (view of ) Christ altogether. I have seen this happening as the major emphasis on evangelism has changed through the efforts of the International Congress on World Evangelization and the Lausanne Covenant. YWAM has been using this same model for years through the input of C. Peter Wagner and Fuller Theological Seminary where Rick Warren was involved.

The similarity has also been noted in at least one discussion forum focusing on coercive religious groups, this time with ex-Wagnerites discussing the similarities with Warren's program:

I agree with Richard about Wagners crazy unbiblical doctrine but his Fifteen Health Factors for American Churches sound lile they are straight from the Porpose Drive Life

Then again, looking at who trained Warren in the first place...the apple might well not be falling all that far from the tree, and there turns out to be a very good reason for the NAR dogwhistles.

The relationship between Warren and "Mr. Joel's Army"

In fact, as it turns out, Rick Warren was personally mentored by none other than C. Peter Wagner himself--Wagner being, in essence, "Mr. Joel's Army" (as both the person who coined the phrase and has led the rebranding of NAR groups since to things like "Elijah's Army" and so forth once the "Joel's Army" brand got to be too well known in apologetics circles).

Not only was Warren mentored by him, but apparently still praises the dickens out of Wagner and looks up to him as a role model in his book "The Purpose Driven Church":

4. Dr. C.Peter Wagner. This man has also been cited as a successful leader by Rick Warren. You have noticed his name above. Who is Wagner and what does he believe? He is the professor of Fuller Theological Seminary, School of World Mission, Pasadena California. He believes in Dominion Theology, Kingdom Now, which is the premise that the Kingdom of God is already here! Wagner’s spiritual warfare book, “Territorial Spirits,” is a compilation of the writing of such people as Paul (David) Yonggi Cho, Larry Lea, Jack Hayford and others who accept the neo-dominionist doctrines.
. . .
On p. 127: he mentions favourably C.Peter Wagner, an apostate teacher...

In case you were curious, yes, this would be the same C. Peter Wagner who has literally accused non-NAR churches of being demon possessed for wishing to maintain their orthodoxy.

And it appears that Rick Warren was quite the good little student:

Saddleback Church promotes and endorses C. Peter Wagners book "Your Spiritual Gifts can help your church grow" here on saddlebacks website as part of there SHAPE class 301
here http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/ministry...

Warren did his D.MIN. in 1993 under Peter Wagner at Fuller NEW CHURCHES FOR A NEW GENERATION: CHURCH PLANTING TO REACH BABY BOOMERS. A CASE STUDY: THE SADDLEBACK VALLEY COMMUNITY CHURCH (California). In it he wrote “We must establish new churches to reach this new generation of Americans. It will require new churches that understand the Baby Boom mindset and are intentionally designed to meet their needs, tastes, and interests.”

Ministry Advantage at Fuller features articles from various “Christian leaders” Warren is listed among others like Ted Haggard, Jack Hayford, Bill Hybels, Peter Wagner, John Wimber etc. (http://www.fuller.edu/cll/ce/ma_writers....)

All this means Fuller sees him as being in agreement with these men and what they are teaching. Peter Wagner who taught at Fuller optimized his vision of church growth with executing a new Church government, ie. new apostles and prophets laying a new foundation for today (ICA).

Yes, you read that right--Wagner and Warren do rather extensively cross-promote each other, and also include a number of other partners in crime (including John Wimber, who we'll get into in a moment).

According to the FACTnet thread earlier, Warren actually cites C. Peter Wagner no less than eight separate times in the disseratation in question--NOT exactly a good sign.

Let Us Reason (always a reliable source for reporting on what is going on with NAR leaders) notes the relationship goes so deep that Warren is involved in several Wagner-operated groups including a megachurch association and Mission America:

All this means Fuller sees him as being in agreement with these men and what they are teaching. Peter Wagner who taught at Fuller optimized his vision of church growth with executing a new Church government, ie. new apostles and prophets laying a new foundation for today (ICA).

Peter Wagner, is the Founder and President of the American Society For Church Growth (ASCG). Rick Warren is a member of the American Society For Church Growth (ASCG) which is located at Fuller Theological Seminary. http://www.ascg.org/links.htm Saddleback Valley Community Church.

Rick Warren, Founding Pastor (ASCG member at large) is found alongside many names which includes Global Harvest Ministries of C. Peter Wagner, Founder, President (the ASCG Founding President); The World Prayer Center C. Peter Wagner, Co-founder.

“Saddleback Community Church senior pastor Rick Warren is on Mission America's Facilitation Committee [http://www.missionamerica.org/leaders.html 1997].

A person does not become part of a board unless they are in agreement with the doctrines and philosophy of ministry of those who are part of the board.

And as for Mission America's philosophy? It's pretty much a pure Joel's Army group. This becomes rather apparent by looking at the membership list for Mission America, which is a veritable "who's who" of the New Apostolic Reformation...and which prominently includes Warren.

More proof of Mission America's status as a de-facto Joel's Army org comes from the Board of Directors--with only about two or three exceptions, every member is linked to or a leader of a group tied to the NAR. Some of these include orgs like Campus Crusade for Christ, Aglow International, and International Foursquare (itself an "Assemblies daughter" and the earliest known)--all of which have been linked with the "stealth candidacy" of Sarah Palin.

And, it would appear, the linkages don't stop with Cho *or* Wagner.

Still more NAR relations

One name that Warren has also been repeatedly mentioned in association with is John Wimber, founder of the Vineyard denomination (and this is using the term loosely; both it and its "parent", Calvary Chapel, tend to promote themselves as "church organisations", do denominational membership via signing of statement of faith and payment of a yearly membership fee, and in general straddle the line between a denomination proper and a parachurch).

Vineyard, as it turns out, shows up quite frequently when one does research on the NAR--in no small part because multiple Vineyard churches have been linked to it, including the Toronto Airport Fellowship (the site of a Joel's Army/Third Wave "revival" in the 80s), and partly because Vineyard churches have been particularly enthusiastic about exporting NAR-style dominionism to other denominations.

One particular tool that Vineyard has used to export NAR theology outside the neopentecostal dominionist set--with a disturbing amount of success--is via the "Alpha Course". As it turns out, "Alpha" had its origins via the steeplejacking of a CoE church by a Vineyard-associated cell church:

Although Nicky Gumbel’s Alpha course was founded at Holy Trinity Brompton in 1991, the effectiveness of the course was not realized until a few years later after the “Toronto Blessing” was transported to England from Canada in May of 1994. It was then that Church leaders of Holy Trinity Brompton received a dose of the “blessing” through Eli Mumford who had just returned from Toronto.

On May 24, 1994, Elli Mumford met with several leaders of Holy Trinity Brompton. As Mumford prayed at this meet­ing, the “transferable blessing” from the Toronto Airport Vineyard was manifest. Sandy Millar, the highly regarded vicar of Holy Trinity Brompton, decided that Elli would preach the following Sunday morning. After giving her testi­mony about her ‘Toronto experience,’ Elli asked the congregation to stand while she prayed the Lord would bless and give them all He had. Immediately people began to laugh hysterically, weep, shake, jerk, bark and roar.

Apparently both Wimber *and* Warren co-taught the same courses at Fuller:

3. John Wimber. Now deceased, John Wimber has been used as a model by Warren: From Dave Hunt’s “Seduction of Christianity” p. 174: “...these men are creating a powerful New Age “paradigm shift” that is changing the way thousands of pastors and future pastors view Christianity and the Bible. In his latest Signs and Wonders Lecture Notes, John Wimber writes:

At the time of the preparation of this manual, Dr. C. Peter Wagner and I have been teaching MC510 for three years. It has been one of the most invigorating and exciting adventures of our lives.

At this date, January, 1985, we have had in excess of 700 students take the course at Fuller Seminary School of World Missions. The results have been astounding. Better than 90 percent of the students have indicated a paradigm shift in which they are now ministering in an altered worldview.

And again--despite Vineyard being one of the neopentecostal dominionist denominations most clearly linked to the NAR--Warren again held up Wimber as a role model when the latter died:

Warren commenting on John Wimbers death: “I will remember John Wimber as a man who truly loved Jesus more than anything else. I always enjoyed our conversations because that love for Christ produced an uncommon passion in his life that was contagious. I will miss that. A hundred years from today, people will still be singing “Spirit Song” because it verbalizes that deep love for Jesus.” http://www.crvineyard.org/WhoAreThesePeo...

It's good to be respectful and encouraging when there is a loss like this, however, to be so flattering brings to question what he really believes about the Vineyard movement that launched the prophet and apostle movement and the Toronto disaster, along with so many other aberrations. John Wimber’s connection with Peter Wagner is well established; Wagner is now in the saddle with the prophet/ apostle movement that began with Wimber.

And, as has been noted, Warren actually promotes the "Alpha Course", specifically as a tool of "bait and switch":

Rick Warren has also endorsed Alpha course, which is something that goes well with his seeker friendly model. Alpha course is supposed to be a evangelistic outreach, but it is an offshoot of the Toronto blessing. “It’s great to see how Alpha has been used to reach people with the good news of Jesus Christ, who wouldn’t normally come to church. This resource is very complementary to helping seekers connect with The Purpose Driven Life” (http://www.resourcefoundation.org/Curren...)

And this is *still* not the end of the Vineyard connections--in "The Purpose-Driven Life", he directly quotes from a major NAR preacher in C. Peter Wagner's network:

He quotes in The Purpose Driven life on p.108 a seemingly innocuous statement of Floyd McClung - who is involved with the 3rd wave Movement and now pastors Mike Bickle’s church (one of the prophets that was in the Vineyard under the Kansas City prophets -now is affiliated as a prophet with Peter Wagner’s Apostolic Movement).

And, as amazing as it sounds, we're still not done--there are indications of a relationship with Campus Crusade for Christ to boot, with a book endorsement by Bill Bright of CCfC for "Purpose Driven Church" (which would make at least the THIRD direct endorsement and/or contribution by NAR-linked groups).

Needless to say, this all adds up to Rick Warren being--contrary to the popular opinion promoted in the media--not the "innocuous evangelical", but quite possibly being involved in a branch of dominionism that has had well over sixty years to practice breeding in stealth.

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amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

these people -- and Warren's facade has already made him "America's Pastor" and we're continually told he's better and "more moderate" than others -- and he's actually worse than a Dobson and Robertson and Falwell.

Warren is sorta a Religious Extremist Microsoft already -- a Multinational Corporation who "expands into new markets" like Bill Gates and Philip Morris does, etc.

Troutfishing has had great stuff on his African "work", and all these connections too -- Warren-Endorsed Nigerian Archbishop Backed Anti-Gay Laws Worse Than Third Reich's

(i know him from metafilter and meetups -- a sweetheart -- doing great work) : >

I'm terribly disappointed in Orcinus tho -- it's like he doesn't exist for them.

Card-carrying_Buddhist's picture
Submitted by Card-carrying_B... on

This is very disturbing.

Nervine5's picture
Submitted by Nervine5 on

between church and state and these are the people who slither in. Scary shit.

Thanks, dogemperor for the expose'. I had read (was it your article?) about S. Palin's disturbing connection to these organizations and now to find that B.O. is embracing the same, well f*#k!

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

I only ask, no aspersions cast, but compare if you will the acceptance of validity and absence of rebuttal for dogemperor's work here re: Warren to the disputations offered when the same kind of linkages were shown for dominionists and Sarah Palin.

Personally I see the one as being just as bad as the other; hopefully it is not true that to some eyes the standard of evidence must be higher when the accused is a woman.

vastleft's picture
Submitted by vastleft on

Having not been impressed with the linkages to Sarah Palin, I took a pass on reading this one.

Valhalla's picture
Submitted by Valhalla on

Having not been impressed with the linkages (and guilts by association) of the Palin-dominionist posts, I read this one pretty carefully. I was trying to be equally skeptical.

One difference is that Warren's own scary statements are quoted. Yes, much of the evidence is associative (eg some of the same creepy people praised Warren as praised Palin), but Warren's own words are sufficiently icky that it was worth the read.

As for BIO's suggestion re: reverse sexism, that didn't really occur to me. (BIO, when you say 'going on here' I don't know if you mean here at Corrente or a more general 'here'). If you meant at Corrente -- I was very critical of the dominionist posts on Palin because of evidentiary reasons, but stopped commenting at some point because I was just being repetitive. So I didn't repeat any criticism here, while reading the post with the same sort of skeptical filter with which I read the Palin ones.

Warren is the self-promoted, self-hailed leader of a religious movement which, even in its sanitized for primetime version, is scary and can't hide it's consonance with dominionist belief systems. Palin's ties to that system and her beliefs were much, much muddier and more tenuous. I think there's a real difference between the two situations, if not the analytic style of dogemperor. Or maybe a lot of us are just temporarily dominioned out right now.

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

Right here in River City Corrente.

I'm usually pretty skeptical of guilt by association, and I see no room for doubt that Palin is a Dominionist up to her eyeballs. Maybe you had to grow up in an evangelical community to interpret the signs, dunno, apparently a videotaped laying-on-of-hands prayer session with a genuine witch hunter isn't sufficient, but it is crystal clear to me for both of them. She's taken a different path, part of a deliberate strategy of the Dominionist movement to place "stealth" representatives in political office as well as law enforcement and the military, but Palin is to my mind no less fervent and potentially more dangerous.

YM, MV; of course. I found the rejection of dogemperor's considerable pile of connections and evidence for Palin to be surprising, especially in this blog of religious doubters, and was struck again now by the lack of a similar judgment when it came to Warren. But then I see them both the same in that regard.

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

thus the resemblance. His obviousness makes him less dangerous than a creep who doesn't look creepy, like say a women's beauty contest winner.

Valhalla's picture
Submitted by Valhalla on

I find all that fake vaseline smiling pretty creepy. Although I suppose it's not from overfeeding.

Turlock