—they’re not helping themselves at all. It’s amazing how they refuse to acknowledge that many Dems will not ever vote for him—for multiple good reasons.

Pew— “… Obama is falling short with some segments of the women vote. In particular, he currently polls considerably worse than his predecessors among all women age 65 or older. About one-third (35%) in this group support Obama, while 42% support McCain. In June 2000, Gore enjoyed a 53%-to-36% lead among women over 65, while in June 2004, Kerry held a more modest 48%-to-43% lead. Currently, nearly one-quarter of women 65 and older (23%) remain undecided about whom to support or say they will vote for another candidate, more than double the share that said that was the case at this point in 2004 (9%) and 2000 (11%).

Even among older women voters who identify themselves as Democrats, significant numbers have yet to declare their support for their party’s presumptive nominee. While Obama has a solid 69%-to-12% advantage over McCain among Democratic women over 50, nearly one-in-five (19%) remain undecided or would vote for another candidate. …”

— http://pewresearch.org/pubs/902/should-w…

Older women (women are the majority of registered Dems, btw) the most loyal and dependable voters around— if they stay home or vote McCain, there’s no possible way Obama can win.

“… Regular voters also are older than those who are not registered. More than four-in-ten of those ages 50 and older (42%) are regular voters, about double the proportion of 18-29 year-olds (22%). …” — http://people-press.org/report/292/who-v…

which explained the attitude.

Someone wrote it was time Hillary backers decided whether they were Democrats or…something else.

My immediate thought was of all the times left blogs and commenters had asked that Dem pols simply be Democrats and support (what we thought were) Democratic values. Like the Constitution. Civil liberties. Yada, yada.

Oh, well.

Meet the new boss, same as the BushCo boss….

rights, liberties, no spying, single-payer health, no more GOP crimes and obscenities, etc —all those are majority-supported American values.

That’s the tragedy of all this.

The attitude that really scares me is “I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support.”

I’ve been amazed since before the first primary at the people who have absolutely no conditions for their support.

Donnie Fowler must really be ticked off at Thomas Jefferson and his “self-evident truths”, “all men are created equal” and “as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” Can’t be laying down them conditions, y’know.

A party that believes I have to shut up and unconditionally worship its nominee is a party I can’t support. I no longer consider myself a Democrat.

in his interview Dean said that Clinton’s name would be placed in nomination and that she would play a big role at the convention.

and if they don’t pony up? I suspect they have all given up on being appointed ambassador or anything like that, so why would they just fall in line?

…. Dean’s dancing around this. I can’t find it on Google News, for example, making it look like the Denver Group people are right.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Didn’t he just have a really good fundraising month? (June, that is)

Hearing Donna B. say clearly on the last ABC talk show w/ George Steph that Ms. Clinton’s name would not be allowed on the convention ballot.

which was $55 million for June.

and we wouldn’t be seeing stuff like the Germond/Fowler letter if the Obots were not concerned about money.

The problem for Obama is that he needs to raise $300 million for the general election campaign….and only 2 millon of the money he raised was for the GE…

And Obama is spending money now like that $300 million will be there (that’s what happens when you decide to ’take over’ the party….especially when you have the reputation of having lots of money. Everyone suddenly wants to get paid, instead of ’contributing’ services, etc. )

except BIO’s mosquito-killing method has it beat.

I particularly enjoyed this:

I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support. The Los Angeles Lakers didn’t establish conditions to recognize the Boston Celtics as NBA Champions; Roger Federer did not demand concessions before recognizing that Rafael Nadal defeated him at Wimbledon.

I enjoy the thought of this person’s fatigue and irritation quite a lot. I know that’s immachur of me.

But then, why would I make an effort to take a mature attitude towards someone who thinks politics, like basketball, is all about winning?

It would be wrong for the Democrats to ask Bush to obey the Constitution, he WON, so you can’t do anything but support him. Or aren’t you an American? So don’t complain about FISA, shut the fuck up and send Bush more money. He’s got a library to build you know. Since when do losers get to deny the winner money?

Seriously, it’s like half the Democratic Party has no idea how politics works. That you support a candidate to get things done and one of the way you pressure them to do what you want is to make your support contingent on it. I don’t support Democrats because they’re my fucking team. To the extent I support them, it’s because of what policies I think they’ll pursue and what values they claim to hold.

If Obama wants my money, there are things he can do to earn it. Screaming at me to “get over it” isn’t one of them.

And who ever heard of asking people for money by telling them they have no right to ask for anything in exchange? Since when don’t I have the right to ask for something in exchange for my money?

It’s amazing to me the Democrats have elected two presidents in the last 40 years. These people are idiots.

“It would be wrong for the Democrats to ask Bush to obey the Constitution, he WON, so you can’t do anything but support him.”

HA! So true.

They lost me at “immature”. No, that’s not true. They lost me with Alice Germond’s performance at the May meeting of the RBC.

Aren’t these people supposed to be the educated classes? Good grief, I’ll have to send WKJM a copy of Gilbert Ryle’s The Concept of Mind with all the passages on “category mistakes” underlined for fast retrieval.

[Note to Truth Partisan: don’t even think of asking me for a review of that one!!]

Good grief. These people should stick to commenting polls. Talk about apples and oranges.

That’s not the issue at all, and Fowler is either a moron for using this as an example, or he thinks Democratic voters are.

Fowler is a former head of the DNC. Now the mess that is the Democratic Party makes a lot more sense. They don’t seem to think that voters should get anything for their support. They are to vote for the candidate with the (D) and not ask any questions. I can’t help but wonder how this attitude has contributed to a produce party that appears to have no hard and fast principles. I want someone with clearly stated principles (closely aligned with my own), who is willing to fight for them, and not compromise his/her principles on critical issues (like core civil liberties and availability of health care for everyone).

If you want my vote, there will be conditions. If you want my money, there will be conditions. If you want me to volunteer for you campaign, there will be conditions. And I don’t think any of those conditions is unreasonable. Right now, Sen. Obama isn’t meeting my conditions (first and foremost his vote on FISA).

I’m sorry if that attitude is too juvenile for Fowler and Germond, but nothing they wrote gives me a reason to reconsider it.

The point is:

Shut the fuck up and send Obama more money!

What’s wrong with you?

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

What a novel idea!

Next you’ll be saying that a political party is not like a family!

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

the horserace narrative sucks and that primaries and elections should be about issues and ideas (a point that BTD made in his initial PB2.0 contribution).

FrenchDoc are you mad?! If the election were about issues politicians would be forced to address the actual needs of the nation/voters — we can’t have that.

you’re making my head hurt! Shame on you all for messing with my mind! *pouts*

***hugs FrenchDoc***

We only snark cuz we know you’re right. :)

Maybe Lambert should change the subtitle “Boldly Shrill… and Snarky”.

Nope. :(

…I just reread those. I wasn’t trying to be snarky or meaning to offend you in any way but was just trying to be playful and I was sincere about you being right about the election coverage. The horserace aspect does need to go away and coverage should instead focus on issues.

But I wouldn’t hold my breath on issue-based campaign and coverage though. This is especially the case since both candidates are focusing a lot on their personal narratives.

Thanks, Lambert! If only Fowler and Germond had been so succinct.

Now, where did I put that checkbook…?

…stuff doesn’t always translate online so I wanted to make sure.

Axelrod is a believer in the campaign by biography/narrative method so that’s probably why Obama’s campaign is focused the way it is. That said, his bio is full of holes that are prone to filling in by the other side or just imaginative voters on their own and I think it would be wise of them to start offering up some issues to define him. McCain’s bio is more resistant to reframing because of the sheer amount of time he’s been out there.

And as to issues… I’d be infinitely more comfortable with Obama if I could find the one thing or things that he’d do anything for. What won’t he compromise? Why is he in politics? What is it that he’ll fight like hell for?

Sirota — http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_991…

never do anything that will cause any kind of fight, or unhappy executives, or DC pundits.

…but I’m very much afraid that you’re right.

not a Big Lie

Submitted by jawbone on Sat, 2008-07-19 19:29.

“Someone wrote it was time Hillary backers decided whether they were Democrats or…something else.”

=============

I made my decision. Fuck the Dem party, I’m an “Independent”. Feels great too. Instead of propping up these assholes like I’ve been doing for years, now I can rain on their parade when they deserve it, the same way I’ve been doing to the Repubs for years.
I refuse to consider myself a member of a group of scumbags as lowly as the Obamabots and I refuse to support losers like Daschle, Kerry, Pelosi, Dean, Reid and their like. What the F have any of these people accomplished? A big fat nothing. They’ve done squat. Bush has ran them all into the ground. They’re losers. They foisted the Obama fraud on us and kneecapped the Clintons. Screw ’em.
Trust me, being an Indie is very liberating and it feels wonderful.

“I’d be infinitely more comfortable with Obama
if I could find the one thing or things that
he’d do anything for. What won’t he compromise?
Why is he in politics? What is it that he’ll
fight like hell for?”

He’s already shown you everything there is to see: What he would do anything for…to get to the Oval Office. What he won’t compromise for…getting to the White House. Why he is in politics…to become President. What he will fight like hell for? Uhhh…three guesses.

That’s his only value, his only issue, his only purpose. Don’t be looking for any altruistic tendency, any desire to help others, any lifelong urge to do good, any feel-good anything. You’ll just continue to be perplexed and disappointed.

Four dualisms drive the entire enterprise: Power and money. Money and power. Power and power. Money and money. All else is irrelevant poppycock best left to heaving bosomed women, the sweaty ignorant racist working class, unthinking lemminglike racist African Americans (unless they somehow begin thinking), bleeding heart liberals, shrieking progressives, and principled long-term actual Democrats…all of whom need to be herded and quelled beneath the higher good of all things Obama.

This is not snark. Get that and you’ll get Obama. Try showing me one shred of evidence to the contrary. One.

Now, whatcha gonna do about that? (stay tepid?)

OxyCon for President!!!

Oxycon, you gotta close your italic tag.

and got so highly pissed off I went and donated $20.00 to retire Hillary’s debt.

Then I emailed Mr. Fowler and asked if he could provide a list of the companies he lobbies for or represents so that I could then boycott them.

I’m enjoying returning to sender each solicitation for money I receive, and so far I must have returned twenty of them.

I carefully scissor out my personal information (wary of reprisals), and write in big black sharpie the following:

FISA
CHICAGO
SEXISM
CENTRISM

So that the recipients may clearly understand my lack of support.

Should there be other things on my list?

Then I put all the stuff into their postage-paid envelope and return it to them.

I look forward each day to receiving more, so I can send them back. What goes around comes around, eh?

It is Hillary’s decision as to whether she wants to be on the ballot—and has nothing to do with what Obama or Dean wants. She has the delegates to be on the ballot. Anything you hear to the contrary is untrue.

and she need to shut the fuck up.

Not even a short review?

Thanks French Doc for all your reviews!

The AT&T Convention in Denver — Greenwald — http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2…

I mean, sure, technically she could force the issue, but what they seem to be doing (see Brazile’s comments in the WSJ) is creating a situation that pressures Clinton to withdraw her name from the ballot. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in all the lekkage, it’s to listen to Donna Brazile, she’s pushing the “party” line. And what she’s pushing is for Clinton to remove her name from the ballot.

now we’re supposed to fall in line like good foot soldiers—never gonna happen.

We don’t do Jonestown, and blindly obeying has never been a Democratic value or priority.