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Bernie Mac at an Obama fundraiser via the Sun Times:

Inside, about 600 people milled about, drinks in hand, waiting for the Democratic [presumptive] nominee. He was introduced by Bernie Mac who began by talking about the movie he did with Chris Rock about a black president, Head of State.

Fine so far.

He promised to help Obama and that he would be there "like the Jackson Five" and ended his irreverent riff with a joke involving the women in the families and living with two "hoes"

[Where's the detail from the normally on-the-ball Lynn Sweet?]

A heckler started protesting, asking for Mac to step down and let Barack come on.

Obama's reaction?

"Everybody is concerned about whether the Democratic Party will be unified in time," he said. "We don't have an option but to make sure that we are united and make sure that we succeed…we can't afford to be divided by race. We can't afford to be divided by religion, or by region or class. Or by gender," he said, pausing for effect. "That means, by the way, Bernie you got to clean up your act. This is a family affair… I'm just messing with you," he said.

Indeed. And I'd say Bernie Mac helped the party take another giant step toward unity last night! And that was only the first of two fund-raisers, too...

Hey, come on! Where's your sense of humor?

NOTE Hat tip SunnyLC.

UPDATE Via Shakes, it keeps getting better:

"My little nephew came to me and he said, 'Uncle, what's the difference between a hypothetical question and a realistic question?'" Mac said. "I said, I don't know, but I said, 'Go upstairs and ask your mother if she'd make love to the mailman for $50,000.'"

As the joke continued, the punchline evoked an angry response from at least one person in the audience, who said it was offensive to women.

"It's not funny. Let's get Barack on," a man shouted from the crowd, which paid $2,300 each to support the Illinois senator.

Sir? Barack was on. The event was a fundraiser, and Bernie Mac was representing him. Eh?

And to reiterate: I'm not a prude, I can work Blue, and I laughed my fucking ass off at The Aristocrats. But this is an Obama campaign fundraiser in an election where Obama's campaign was fuelled by misogyny. So this is just stupid. Even if you believe none of it's real, and the whole thing is a fantasy in what passes for the minds of what some Obama supporters like to label the dry pussy demographic, it's still stupid. Stupid, sloppy, undisciplined. And Obama's passive response doesn't help any. Unless he wants to drive women away, of course, in which case it's brilliant.

If Obama won't listen to Axelrod, maybe Michelle could take him aside?

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leah's picture
Submitted by leah on

Talk about teapot-sized tempests...

And it isn't Lynn Sweet; she's working from a pool report that had to be corrected because in its first version of the event, Mack was supposed to have made a reference to a fist fight between Obama and Clinton, presumably Bill, but apparently the campaign or someone offered up the fact that what Mack had said was Kanye, i.e., Kanye West, which makes much more sense.

It should also be noted that Mack has been married to the same woman for a long time, I don't know the exact length of time, but at least two decades plus, and he's the kind of present, caring father, (and grandfather, I believe) that all black fathers should be, or perhaps that would be better expressed as...that all black fathers should find themselves in the circumstances to be able to be.

What was reported of his 'set' was on target and funny, and clearly toned down from some of Mac's routines, which do veer toward the vulgar, but I like to think we have a healthy respect for the vulgar, here at Corrente. I'm ready for less references to "hoes," but I'd sure as hell like to know what the joke was before I take the energy to come up with a coherent, meaningful response.

Also, without having been there, no way to know if the reported comment by Obama wasn't a genuine signal to Mack to exnay on the "hoe" way; "just messing with you," can contain more than one message. And then there is this addition to the pool report:

Comment from Jen Psaki: Senator Obama told Bernie Mac that he doesn't condone these statements and believes what was said was inappropriate

Nothing about this comment should be construed as a defense of Barack Obama's performance during the last three weeks.

Submitted by lambert on

Her name's on it, and it would be nice if she'd made the calls to get the detail, as I said.

If this wasn't part of a pattern of a continually reinforced pattern of behavior, I'd be a lot less ready to be pissed about it. Working blue, as it were, is just fine, and Fuck, we do it, but this is a campaign fundraiser, for pity's sake, in a campaign where Obama and his supporters have already managed to fracture the party along gender lines (see Melissa's article).

And the part of the pattern that really frosts me is Obama's passive response. Just like people booing Hillary and her supporters at unity rallies, Obama always lets it happen, and then weakly admonishes the perps for it, after the fact, or in a statement, just like now. (Same pattern in the RFK smear, if it comes to that.)

It's just stupid. And self-destructive. And then Obama has the gall to prate about Unity? Give me a break. If he'd shut Bernie down when it was happening, I'd be impressed. But "I'm only messing with you?" WTF!

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Davidson's picture
Submitted by Davidson on

'Ho is a misogynistic slur--not simple profanity or vulgarity. The target of attack are women and girls. Period. Usually because such slurs involve sexuality (i.e. sexual "morality"), they're dismissed as simply "crude" but homophobic slurs do the same and yet we, as a society, rightly denounce them so why not "'ho?" If Coulter was wrong last year for calling Edwards a "faggot," Mac is wrong this year with "'ho." Just because society confuses these slurs with generic foul language doesn't mean we should. Whenever a slur is used in the context of demeaning anyone, it should be slammed.

I say, bring on the vulgarity and let go of the slurs.

Submitted by gob on

It should also be noted that Mack has been married to the same woman for a long time, I don’t know the exact length of time, but at least two decades plus, and he’s the kind of present, caring father, (and grandfather, I believe) that all black fathers should be...

Faithful, present, caring fathers and grandfathers (and mothers and grandmothers for that matter) can still be sexist, even, sometimes especially, towards the women and girls of their own families. Just ask The Apostate, for one.

I don't think "all black fathers should" refer jestingly to female human beings as hos.

Submitted by lambert on

See the UPDATE.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

campskunk's picture
Submitted by campskunk on

lemme get this straight... this bernie mack person refers to his own wife and obama's wife, michelle obama, as "hos", and obama thinks it's funny? call me old-fashioned, but i will still defend michelle obama from sexist attacks, even if her husband won't.

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

women. Don't pay attention to what he says. Watch what he does.

He's a jerk.

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

Cultcha, right. Fuck it.

by Bernie Mac who began by talking about the movie he did with Chris Rock about a black president, Head of State.

"Barack, you need to look at it so you know what they're going to do to you," Mac said. "I don't know why my man Barack wants to be president but I'm proud of him because politics is dirty especially with Republicans. So Barack, you can't get mad, you understand, when you hear rumors because people like rumors. They're going to say things like, you were at the club with Lil' Kim and you and Clinton got into a fist fight."

((this is correction sent out after the report was filed.Below is the accurate line:
People like rumors they are going to say things like you know you was in the club with Lil’ Kim and you and Kanye West got in a fist fight.))

He went on to riff about hope and offering himself up as a running mate "and they don't want me because I cuss."

Which he did.

Stole that from Lynn Sweet's column this morning. The comments over there are all about defending Mac as hilarious; somebody even says "I'll apologize for him, if your feelings were hurt by what he said, or what you think he said."

Right back to the Barack-the-vote crowd's passive-aggressive hostility, which quickly devolved into "why won't that stupid bitch quit?"

Why was because she was not stupid, demonstrably (a law degree, a practice, two terms in the Senate -- lots of things Hillary Clinton is, but stupid isn't on the list), and she wasn't a bitch (else Bill would've been single again a long damn time ago -- probably before 1996), also demonstrably.

Y'all know I am an Edwards fan, because the man spoke passionately about taking care of the least powerful and least moneyed among us, and had the service record in court to back up his contention that the corporations could -- and should -- be held to account. He spoke about Constitutional government, as well.

Obama's famous flexibility has caused him to back away from every principled stance but one, and that's become so twisted it's emetic. Not to vote for BHO is racist, no matter what your reason -- thus saith The Village, the OBF, and the DLC/DCC (by default or omission, depending on your view of how the party did not stand by Hillary during the misogyny-fest that was the post-February primary season).

Because I live in Texas, and sending John Cornyn back to the Senate is the worst possible thing I can imagine, I'll vote a straight Democratic ticket in the down-ballot.

Obama gets no vote from me, no money from me, no verbal support from me, no blockwalking or GOTV from me. Party Unity -- at the cost of the principles for which I have all my life voted Democratic, like my parents before me, who understood that the GOP stood for the rich first and foremost, and at the cost of throwing so many Democratic groups like black people, red people, brown people, old people, poor people, female people, and working people, under the bus for the sake of Party Unity with the GOP -- is not worth the effort.

Bringiton often points out how much worse McCain is than Obama. Sometimes I wonder if Obama isn't trying to force McCain to the side in the race for Worst Person Ever to Run for President. Incidents like this one just make me think he's trying harder not only not to ask for my vote, but to show me that I -- and the people who are like me -- don't count at all in his worldview.

It's not that The Precious (or his minions) ever say or do anything offensive; it's that the audience takes offense at what they think he said or did.

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

Thanks awfully for the mention, especially in this warm and convivial setting. Can't see how I could get in any trouble by participating here, naw suh, No Danger At All.

Not going to defend whatever it was that Bernie Mack said, because I don't know what he said. All I've got from first-hand observers are some fragments and selective, dramatic snippets of impressions, plus the subsequent weaving of them into the ongoing narative fabric of "Obama Sux" supported this time by what is considered by some to be evidence that "Bernie Mack Sux." Thin gruel, IMHO, but tasty to some.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned; maybe I just don't "understand" how things are today, it all being so fast-paced and modern and everything electronical and whiz-bang and just exactly like teenage gossip wars. Oh, whoops, look what snuck out of my mouth! But yeah, to me it resembles nothing more than that.

Call me Old School, but I like to actually know what was said, in context, before I get all hetted up with somebody. "I heard she said he said" might pique some people's interest, but not mine. Kind of a quirk in this day and age, I know, but it is who I am. Y'all carry on as you think best.

[Leah, sweetie, that riff on black fatherhood was off the mark. Either you're doing what you can to be a responsible parent or you aren't; neither race nor ethinicity nor religion has anything to do with it. Neither does gender, actually, once the biological parts are over with. Responsible parenting is race and gender neutral, and we'd all be better off if we started talking about it that way; who knows, after a while we might even start thinking about it that way. Think of it as a small step towards equality.]

[Sarah, good valiant Sarah; the reason I keep pointing out that McCain is much worse that Obama is directly a result of the fact that McCain is much worse than Obama. An inconvenient truth, I know, but there it is.]

[And thanks awfully for dragging me in today, after all the times previously that I've condemned rap lyrics and thugspeak and calling women ho's and bitches and worse, the many times I've castigated the endless disgusting disrespect for women that is so thoroughly commercialized and glorified in the popular culture, the times I've hauled out lyrics and speeches to show one disgusting sexist denigration after another by rappers and other role models of supposedly "good" influence and damned them all to hell for their perverseness and perfidity.

Nice of you to give me a chance to do it here again, for the record, by conflating me with Bernie Mack's reported offensiveness and Obama's tepid rebuke; really do appreciate it.

I know you're pissed off, but I am not the one you need to be pissing on. Believe I'll just STFU now, and take the garbage out.]

Submitted by lambert on

Haw!

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

If I could only learn to keep my place, so many people would be so much happier.

Submitted by hipparchia on

don't know why anybody would think a bunch of us would be hanging on every nattering and babbling of some old fossil on the web who needs to just straighten up and fly right, sweetie.

yeah, i'm tired of the gratuitous knee-jerk obama bashing too, but he's still courting the votes of those who would be thrilled to see women and gays remain second-class citizens, his anti-war rhetoric belies his beef-up-the-military stance, and his professed market-love threatens to shore up the plutocracy over the rest of us.

i understand your feeling that the democrats are all that stand between us and armageddon, but i'm not convinced that they'll actually do so.

also, the media, and some bloggers, couldn't bring themselves to call him on his non-progressive bullshit during the primary, but that's their fault not mine, so i see no reason for me to refrain from criticizing him now.

foxx's picture
Submitted by foxx on

in our understanding of sexism vs racism. Can anyone imagine the same excuses and "get over it" if these "jokes" had been about "coons"?

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

There are plenty of shitty non-black fathers out there in every socio-economic category. These guys are a human rainbow of parental irresponsibility. But it seems the media and even our presidential candidates like to single out black men as somehow exceptionally bad when I'm not sure there's any empirical evidence to suggest African American men are any worse parents than other men in their socio-economic group. They are, however, an easier target.

To the extent Bernie Mac is a good father and a good husband, he would be a role model for all men and not just black ones.

Not that, in my view, a person's private life would make up for sexist statements in public. It's why I'm unimpressed with the argument that Obama can't be sexist because he's married to Michelle. Just because he may not be sexist in his private life doesn't mean he isn't willing to use and leverage sexism in his public one. Although in Mac's case it appears that it's not clear he said anything along those lines.

foxx's picture
Submitted by foxx on

Let the minimizing, obscuring, denying begin. The actual quotes are available and they are very clear. It was disgusting.

FlipYrWhig's picture
Submitted by FlipYrWhig on

Where are there actual quotes? I've only seen snippets, premises without punchlines, etc.

gqmartinez's picture
Submitted by gqmartinez on

This has bothered me a lot about Obama. He pushes stereotypes (Popeyes chicken, etc) about Black folks. He's not really helping address the systematic problems in the poor African American communities. He brushes the structural problems aside in the name of individual responsibility. (Who else does that? Hmmm.)

Btw, the "context" defense gets a little stale after a while. Just sayin.

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

Krystunists too, IMNVHO.

Watch what happens with a little cut n paste, a little search n replace:

Islam is whatever Muslims make it. Right now, that means Islam is (for the most part) politically and socially repressive, hideously unfair to women, incapable of accepting criticism, violent, unenlightened and illiberal in the widest sense of the word.

Nevertheless, I don’t wish to ‘demonize’ Muslims, nor to paint a monochromatic picture of them. There are Muslims who have commented on this blog who represent a kinder gentler Islam. I know they exist - I also know they are, at this point in time, few and far between. I can also differentiate between truly enlightened Muslims and those who are primitive in their religious interpretations but who have good hearts.

That's the cut n paste.
Below is my version of search n replace.

Christianity is whatever Christians make it.

Right now, it's politically and socially conservative, economically repressive, hideously unfair to women, incapable of accepting rebuke from its elders or its followers, violent, unenlightened, and illiberal in the widest sense of the word.

I don't wish to condemn all Christians under one blanket.
I do want those "Christians" who don't believe in the Beatitudes and won't practice the New Testament, and who worship the almighty dollar uber alles, to reconsider their faith, rethink the direction of their dogma -- and behave as if they meant to follow Christ instead of crucify Christ all over again every day. (You listening, Mel Gibson? I'm looking at YOU, James Dobson. Hey, Thug Willie Jessop: THIS MEANS YOU.)

Preachers in churches from sea to shining sea denounce the policies of the Democratic party and platform every time their congregations gather, because they are too busy preaching hatred (of teh gays, mostly, but also of blacks and women and the poor, the poor, always the poor because they are an easy target -- the seven deadly sins are gold here.

What are the seven deadly sins?
Lust.
Gluttony.
Greed.
Sloth.
Wrath.
Envy.
Pride.

Gluttony, sloth and pride let the preachers hit the poor: they're slothful or they'd have good jobs and more money; they're gluttonous or they'd eat less (better) food and be healthier; they have too much pride or they'd take jobs (the preachers figured out they could make more money by preaching than doing that same honest, but often distasteful, kind of work).
Envy and greed sock women and illegal immigrants neatly in the gut: they want to be like good hardworking (white, "native-born" American) men with real jobs and real wages, and that's not just a sin against the natural order as seen by the patriarchy, but against God's own will.
Wrath and lust are good against the gays (as well as women and blacks and Hispanics and Native Americans) because if they'd just suppress their unnatural appetites, the preachers explain, they'd have nothing to resent about the way they're mistreated; they'd suck it up and behave properly instead.

And so the drumbeat of using one's personal point of view to "distort" the gospels' message, as dimbulb nimrod Dobson said of Obama, continues from pulpit after pulpit, never aimed at the corporations whose bootheels are on the workers' chins, never aimed at the no-new-taxes crowd whose predilections undermine everything from roads and bridges to public safety (cuts in firefighter salaries and staffing, anybody?) and public services (when was the last time you went to the DMV and didn't have to stand in line?), and most of all, NEVER ever aimed at the "God Bless Our Troops" false ideology of the 'patriotic Christian' national hogwash being poured over everything from real troop support (like, say, proper medical care and clean water in the field, not to mention adequate VA medical staff, equipment, budgets and oversight) to science (intelligent design ring any bells?) in this benighted, superstitious, ill-regulated country left defenseless before the savagery of the profit-as-prophet "prosperity gospel".

Y'all wonder why I find Obama unappealing, McCain appalling, and the prospect of voting this fall distasteful?

'Cause neither of them'll do anything to address the real crisis in this country. Oh, they'll harangue us about "fundamentalist Islamic terrorists," but the fundamentalist "Christian" terrorists -- the anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-family, anti-equality, anti-spiritual, anti-Christ, pro-money con artists ranging from that nutjob Kansas family "church" to the FLDS -- won't just get a pass, they'll get bowed and kowtowed to, butt-kissed and begged for all that lovely money.

Which is really what it's all about: making the President, and his cronies, rich(er) at the expense of the citizenry -- especially those who believe schools ought to teach reading, writing (grammar and spelling too!), arithmetic, science, history, civics, phys ed, music, and a modicum of familiarity with survival skills like mending a tear, cooking a simple inexpensive meal, balancing a checkbook, and changing a flat, while NOT pushing the kids into hating anybody just because they're different (and, notably, NOT hating the kids for being kids while the schools are at it); those who believe every vote ought to count equally, so long as that vote is a live human being's and not some legal fiction like a corporation's; those who seek peace instead of war; those who seek clean air and water instead of cheap gasoline and bloodstained sands; those who insist polar bears and Indian tigers have as much right to space on the planet as people and corporations; and last but not least, those who are born outside the six-figure circles and will never ascend into them, despite a lifetime of sweat, toil, tears, and sacrifice.

Average folk, black or white or other, Christian or Muslim or other, aren't at the apex of power and money. They're poor people -- some more impoverished materially than others, some more impoverished spiritually than others, some mote impoverished educationally than others; that's as much by design of the people at the apex as "the natural order" or "the economy". They're kept that way by cons. Some cons are run by insurers. Some cons are run by bankers. Some cons are run by investors. Some cons are run by preachers. All cons are run by the greedy, the dishonest, the slothful, and the proud).

So long as we stand back and let the cons run unimpeded, we will not advance the causes of humanity one iota.

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

show off exactly where I did what you describe:

Bringiton often points out how much worse McCain is than Obama. Sometimes I wonder if Obama isn’t trying to force McCain to the side in the race for Worst Person Ever to Run for President. Incidents like this one just make me think he’s trying harder not only not to ask for my vote, but to show me that I — and the people who are like me — don’t count at all in his worldview.

What I said was, "Bringiton often points out how much worse McCain is than Obama." Is that not true?

Is McCain not worse? Does Bringiton not often remind us of that?

So yes, you're agreeing with me. Why does it sound like we're fighting?

Because I'm one of those old broads who has a laundry list of things about the "culcha" that I loathe.

Rap lyrics, including many of the so-called Christian rappers' lyrics, denigrate women far more often than not.
This is despicable.

It is not more despicable than, or less despicable than, the sitcom "culcha" that paints husbands (especially working-class husbands) as dumb, clueless, luckless butts of jokes and targets of wifely/neighborly sarcasm, cynicism, and upbraiding -- all cloaked in "humor" that ultimately arises from a putdown delivered by someone whose role in a healthy relationship wouldn't be to put down a family member. It's the reverse-Lucy "comedy" that, frankly, turned me off to the point of vomitus long ago. Rap music and sitcoms have this in common: both 'sell' by insult; this is not different from, nor less despicable than, the politics of personal destruction. But its pervasiveness is disturbing, I think.

Rap lyrics, particularly the "secular" ones, incite violence -- particularly against women and police officers. For reasons I won't go into here, I find the mindset that targets both those groups loathesome.

I reported as faithfully as I could what was printed on the blog site where the story originated -- and I did so because someone asked the question:

[Where’s the detail from the normally on-the-ball Lynn Sweet?]

I made an honest effort to answer that question, and then I expressed my opinion regarding the character of those who would promote such "humor".

So I'm sorry if you think I dragged you into something by referring to your defense of Obama -- which is a backhanded sort of complement, is it not? -- by mentioning my lack of faith in Obama's ability to remain not as bad as McCain.

And I'll repeat my point: bad as McCain is known to be, it's not completely beyond the realm of possibility that "McCain is worse than Obama" will remain a static condition over the course of the next several months.

Obama's not given me a lot of reasons to think he won't turn out to be as bad as McCain before he's through; and while I believe you believe in the need to support Obama, and I respect your belief in that need, I need to see Obama do something positive toward remaining not worse than McCain. So far, his actions have not been convincing.

Bernie Mac is a famous comedian; so is Tim Allen. If Tim Allen had come out and told jokes about "coons" at a rally for Edwards or McCain, do you think there'd be an outraged reaction? I do.

It's exactly the same principle: either fairness means for everybody, or it doesn't really mean for anybody.

If Obama's followers are going to argue that no one who supports Obama can be racist or sexist or misogynist, but no one who isn't an Obama supporter can be anything BUT racist (because he's black) or sexist or misandrist (because he's male), how can discourse continue?

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

FrenchDoc's picture
Submitted by FrenchDoc on

and his enraged rant using the N-word... anyone thinks his stand-up career is not over (as it should be)... but somehow, when it comes to gender, we can just laugh it off.

I'm with ya, Sarah!

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

True as a stand-alone statement; falsely accusatory in the context employed. Didn't serve any useful purpose other than to conflate me - and my preference for painful survival with any Democrat (including Obama) versus painful death under McCain - with this latest round of "proof" that Obama is the Chief PoohBah of the Woman Hater's Club.

The conflation:

1. Bringiton sometimes points out that McCain is worse than Obama.

2. Obama is bad bad bad.

3. Bringiton is a defender of bad bad bad.

That's how it reads, both the first time and the second time. Repeating a false conflation doesn't make it better, Sarah, especially when the repetition is made in bold, but then you know that. Not sure what you thought you were trying to say, can't read your mind, but that's how it reads to me - both times - and I don't like it.

And no I don't "think" you drug me into this, there's my name big and bright and shiny right as the first word of a new paragraph, hard to miss and you typed it. Saying you're sorry I "think" it happened is not a help, makes this worse. I didn't insert myself into this conversation, you brought my name up and in a way that reads as a false construct; not something I wanted, for sure.

S: ...referring to your defense of Obama...I believe you believe in the need to support Obama....
Sometimes I wonder why I bother.

I am no supporter of Obama, nor have I ever been. From time to time, when I feel it needs doing, I insert myself into a conversation where IMNSHO the track has veered from rational reasonable critique to irrational unreasonable bashing. I do so not because I admire or respect or support or wish to defend Obama, but because the nature of the argument itself is demeaning and damaging to the progressive cause.

For the record, I did the same thing here regarding what I saw as mischaracterizations of and unfounded attacks on Hillary Clinton, before she got to be so popular in these parts, and took a lot of grief for that as well. I say these things not for the benefit of one individual politician or another but rather in defense of the best interests of the progressive cause; if that bothers some people, too bad.

I also point out the potential consequence of continuing irrational, unreasonable attacks on Obama, that it will potentially enable a McCain victory and subsequent destruction of American democracy and life on the planet. But hey; those things surely are trivial next to a crisis like "OMG he touched his cheek with his middle finger" or "OMG he blew his nose and a half-dozen people applauded, it must be a cult" or today's snitfest, OMG Somebody Said Somebody Said "Ho".

Nothing useful to be done here now, IMNSHO. I am miffed. We can sort this out later, elsewhere, if you're so inclined; my strong sense is nothing good will come of chewing on it any more today.

Submitted by lambert on

.... then he should stop doing the things that earn him the love taps.

It's that simple, especially for a highly skilled politician, and a great orator, who has run a virtually flawless campaign.

Because, as is very well known, there's a context for all this.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

FlipYrWhig's picture
Submitted by FlipYrWhig on

ended his irreverent riff with a joke involving the women in the families and living with two “hoes”

Mac said. “I said, I don’t know, but I said, ’Go upstairs and ask your mother if she’d make love to the mailman for $50,000.’”

As the joke continued, the punchline evoked an angry response from at least one person in the audience, who said it was offensive to women.

This is all so out of sequence and hard to follow. Is the "hoes" line the "punchline" to the sex-with-the-mailman joke? Or are these two separate jokes? Considering the line about Li'l Kim and Kanye West, the point of the joke might have been that the media will make up stories about Obama because they imagine him living this hip-hop, club-going lifestyle: i.e., "they'll be saying that he's living with two hoes in the White House." The joke about having sex with the mailman sounds like something that hinges on the wife's shock and offense.

These could be "off-color jokes" that are still about media racism and black women's strength. I'm not a big Bernie Mac fan, but that's pretty much my impression of his material.

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

and I want to make this right, if I can at all.

But you're right. It isn't something I can fix with ease, and chewing on it here won't do any good.

I will say this: I did not intend the comment to come across in that way, and I am sorry for having made so sloppy a construct, for doing such an imprecise job of speaking my thoughts, and more than anything else, for creating dissension with you.

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

As I read what you’d written above, I over-reacted and spoke harshly when I should have simply asked what you meant. That was wrong of me to do. I am sorry for having done so, and I apologize.

There might be any number of reasons I could offer for my unacceptable behavior, but they would actually be only excuses. The simple truth is I let my emotions get the better of me, in the moment, and that was a mistake. On reflection, I should have paid better attention to the title of the post – Stay Classy. I did not, and I was not; for that I am ashamed.

Sarah, you are a good person; smart, caring and wise. I deeply value your thoughts, including where we differ, and most of all appreciate your honesty and openness. Truly, those attributes are cherished. In the future I hope I will remember to consider that if you have something to say that I see as a criticism, I should before anything else reflect on where I may have gone wrong and seek to understand why I deserve it.

I am also greatly sorry for any hurt that came as a result of my intemperate words, and hope you can forgive me.

With all Respect, I am Remorsefully Yours.

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

difficult enough to keep up with the atrocities (mis-quoting atrios there) without us breaking into quarrels amongst ourselves here at corrente, I think.

Just for my edification, though, why the emphasis on flying mammals above?

I think I'm going to end up starting a post on What I'd Do If I Were In Charge....

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

from that Shakesville link, you gotta love how Obama's campaign is now claiming that Obama's "messing" with Mac was actually taking him to task over his sexism:

"Sen. Obama told Bernie Mac that he doesn't condone these statements and believes what was said was inappropriate," spokeswoman Jen Psaki said in a statement after the event.

The truly sad thing is that I think Obama added the "just messing with" language because to actually take on Mac's jokes would make Obama look uncool, which is a sad statement on our culture right there.

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

me again, right in my ability to interpret the tone of a post.

Sigh.

Hey, Lambert? For PB2.0, can we have some sort of ... visual cues, so we can tell when a person's talking trash out of affection, and when not?

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

Submitted by lambert on

... so a deeply paranoid person would imagine that the Dems gut net neutrality, and the telcos them institute tiered pricing, driving up server costs for poor bloggers (or forcing them back into corporate walled gardens). And the deeply paranoid person would say, Nope, you're going to have to do tone with writing alone...

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Submitted by hipparchia on

for anything much beyond straight expository writing. my apologies for causing you unnecessary distress.

as for pb2.0 visual cues, i would probably have trouble figuring out how to use markers for snark/sarcasm/whatever, even if they were available, since i often find myself resorting a mixture of rhetorical ploys and straightforward earnestness, rather than purely one or the other.

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

please check your mail.

I respectfully accept the gracious apology you have written above.

Thank you, sir.