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The Clown Prince of Clinton Derangement Syndrome

Who else but Lord Kos? Massive takedown by eRiposte, with lots of linky goodness. Go read.

NOTE 1 I don't use "CDS" myself, because it's too close to autocoprophagic concentration camp advocate Malkin's BDS, and we don't want to confuse the brands. That said, she works it brilliantly.

NOTE 2 eRiposte actually wrote "Crown Prince." But I think that's a typo.

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tedraicer's picture
Submitted by tedraicer on

For four years I went to Daily Kos, well, daily. Then he lost his mind (or revealed his true self) and I will never go there again. Ditto TPWKJM and Matt Y. and several other sites of what I had thought was our Reality Based Community. That has been the most depressing part of this primary season-the ethical collapse of so many "liberal" bloggers.

Tdraicer

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

I came here for the wire's take on moveongate. Are you planning on joining HRC in denouncing the Democratic activist base. I s'pose this little post is going to garner me a somewhat deserved troll-rating but it's worth it.

Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

A clown and a pony are walking across a cemetery late one night. The pony starts crying.

"Why are you crying?" the clown asks.

"Because it's dark and scary" said the pony.

"What are you complaining about?" says the clown, "I've got to walk back alone."

*modified for the overly-PC
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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Submitted by lambert on

Lord Kos read me out of the party. So I have no right to comment on moveongate, whatever the fuck that is.

We don't have troll ratings here, and commenters are only rarely banned. We think of trolls as being rather like a herpes infection, if you know what I'm talking about, and I'm sure you do: The best remedy is sunlight, and the infection dries up and blows away.

Hey, come on. You can be honest. Do you really "hate" to be off topic?

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

why have they given up issues, in favor of candidates?

why are they supporting a "postpartisan" nonfighter when their entire existence is about fighting for things?

Submitted by lambert on

Well, Captain, you're certainly easily excited. But let me give you a clue -- linking to an HuffPo story is not "breaking news." Let me guess... The self-aggrandizement... The useless content... The thread hijacking... You're a member of the Obama Fan Base, right? The word "honestly" is a dead giveaway, too... Tell Axelrod he's got to do better, wouldja?

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

after she, unlike Senator Obama, voted against the bill to censure MoveOn re: the Petraeus/Betrayus ad.

I doubt she'll lose many votes criticizing them, they already hate her.

She's criticized the GOP too.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

Sounds like Tweety to me. Is that you, Chris?

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

Will there ever be a point at which you acknowledge that Obama better embodies the liberal values that this blog supposedly promotes than Clinton does? What have you got against him other than that he wants people who make six figures to pay as much FICA as people who make less than six figures and he doesn't think it makes sense to start with a mandate on health insurance?

I'm sorry I was being self-aggrandizing, something about your initial response somehow gave me the impression you hadn't heard about this story.

Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

cenobite's picture
Submitted by cenobite on

Will there ever be a point at which you acknowledge that Obama better embodies the liberal values that this blog supposedly promotes than Clinton does?

No.

Of course, like anyone at Corrente, I am speaking for myself. There's no official opinion here.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

the "out of the mainstream" thing which helps her.

MoveOn made it to Congress and is seen by the media as some weird radical lefty thing, sadly.

Which makes the whole endorsement even more wrong--he refuses to even use the word liberal and trashes labels, and denigrates all partisans.

Submitted by lambert on

Here.

Oh wait! You're going to tell us to look at his website.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

and Obama's policies on all domestic issues are either weaker than Clinton's or to the right of her--and she's centrist too.

Mandates are essential--and he says they are for kids, but not for adults--the pool has to be enormous for costs to be contained.

and Health care is a basic need the govt must supply (like all civilized countries do)--something the majority of americans want (and will pay more taxes for too) but Obama doesn't. He talks big, but proposes weak. He's no liberal.

Would you call Bill Clinton a liberal? He ran on real universal healthcare--why can't Obama go there?

Submitted by lambert on

I think I'm going to go put my head in a bucket of water. It's been a long day.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

liberals know that the problem with DC isn't partisanship or fighting or a lack of "unity" --it's Republicans using govt to only help the rich, and ignoring our laws and constitution, and starving social services and infrastructure and ....

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

I think I see where you guys are at. I'm going to go find out if Big Tent Democrat and Jeralyn over at talk left have seen the light yet.

Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

Fredster's picture
Submitted by Fredster on

They'll delete his ass there and rightly so.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

there has been exactly one Democrat who won two terms of office in the White House. 60+ years, 1 person.

Your candidate has done nothing but diss Bill Clinton, while praising Republicans. He has recycled GOP talking points to use against Hillary. He is an empty book. Voting for him is buying a pig in a poke.

Even worse, your fellow OFB's want to trash Bill's legacy and drum both Clintons out of the party!

If Obama can't respect his elders, he should learn to respect his betters. That's not a racial slur. Obama will never measure up to the Big Dawg or Hillary. He should be embarrassed by the way Hillary has beaten him in every single debate.

If his ego wasn't overinflated, he would be.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

Obama lasted 45 minutes.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

No post on the topic at Talk Left yet. Mxyzptlk my questions for you as a card carrying Clinton Dead Ender is "when you finally can no longer avoid acceptance of the fact that Obama will be the Democratic nominee, what are you going to do?"

Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

I will vote for the Democrat next November.

BTW - I'll "accept" that Obama is the nominee when he wins.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Submitted by lambert on

... it flares up again!

You think that's why Obama scratching himself? Why does he do that, anyhow?

Check my sig, Captain you fool. Then go away again and infest somebody else. I suggest RiverDaughter.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

What you are all excited about is just a ginned-up issue to distract from Obama's many, many troubles.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

Send him to No Quarter - they like troll bashing.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

zuzu's picture
Submitted by zuzu on

You're asking different things here. One is, "When will you admit the Wonderfulness of Him?" The other is, "What will you do when you finally can no longer avoid acceptance of the fact that Obama will be the Democratic nominee?"

Personally, I'd like to know why I should feel comfortable voting for someone who repeatedly uses right-wing, anti-choice framing on abortion. And my vote is not a given; he's going to have to make me feel comfortable about that, as well as many other issues prior to me voting for him.

Of course, had he spent his time during the primary talking about the issues instead of simply telling me how wonderful he is (and sending out minions to tell me how awful I was if I didn't ACCEPT HOW WONDERFUL HE IS, GOD HOW STUPID CAN YOU BE IF YOU DON'T SEE IT, YOU BITCH??) and tearing down his opponent, I might have the kind of comfort level necessary to cast a vote for him in the GE.

Unfortunately, by running to the right in the primary, he's got a lot of work to do to get the Democrats on board for the general. And he's not going to be able to disqualify McCain.

And as for him being the nominee, that's not over yet. He hasn't won anything. If he wins fairly (which means that FL and MI get seated before the convention), then I'll accept him as the nominee. But he'll still have to convince me to vote for him.

IOW, perhaps you might rethink your strategy. Telling people how stupid and deluded they are for not accepting the fantabulousness of your candidate is not a substitution for persuading them of the fantabulousness of your candidate via reasoned arguments.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

Then you will understand His Transcendent Wonderfulness!

/snark
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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Submitted by lambert on

I'm gonna name my Unity Pony Bucks!

For Bucks County LOL!!!!!

Later Uncle Jay's gonna come over and show me and my pony how to stretch out the coca, like a wrestler!!!!

I'm s-o-o-o-o-o-o excited!!!!!!

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

for Lambert.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

FrenchDoc's picture
Submitted by FrenchDoc on

was that Capt whatever for real?

Is that really the level of argument they put out?

Then I'm definitely old and uncool and it looks like you guys are too!

And BTW, making references to commercial hip hop that has a long history of sexism and misogyny ain't gonna get BO the women's votes.

Like Melissa McEwan patiently explained repeatedly, feminism = progressivism, and progressivism = feminism.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

real Dems don't ask "what will you do if so-and-so is the nominee"-- there's no option for me and millions of others-- we're Democrats and always vote Democratic--and that's why we want good nominees who truly represent us and will fight for us tooth and nail--not someone who runs away from us and won't fight and promises to work with the GOP instead of shutting them down, etc.

FrenchDoc's picture
Submitted by FrenchDoc on

Real dems are proudly progressive

Real dems are proudly liberal

Real dems support women's rights, no compromise

Real dems don't make nice with anti-women, anti-gay, religious fundamentalists of all tripes, no compromise

Real dems count ALL the votes

Real dems are feminist

Real dems get shit done

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

for the things we believe in. We've made this country better for all Americans--and always will fight to do so.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

aren't afraid of democracy

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

vastleft's picture
Submitted by vastleft on

... voting records are running for the Democrats, MoveOn's decision to become a 527 for a single candidate was an amazing unforced error. I'm sure a lot of lifelong Democrats like myself will never send them another nickel.

Who knows, though. Maybe a high rate of churn is a good strategy for them, so long as each cycle they can rally around other personality ____. Maybe next time they'll be lucky enough to find a candidate so awesome he doesn't feel the need to badmouth "socialized medicine."

FrenchDoc's picture
Submitted by FrenchDoc on

*raise glass with Amberglow and myiq2xu*

To some good clock cleaning on Tuesday! ;-)

Becki Jayne's picture
Submitted by Becki Jayne on

Will there ever be a point at which you acknowledge that Obama better embodies the liberal values that this blog supposedly promotes than Clinton does?

OK, let me get out my can opener.

*crank* *crank* *crank* *crank* *crank*

Bwahahahahahahaha!

The question is based on a laughable false premise: Obama "better embodies" liberal values than Clinton does.

For example, since when is sexism a liberal value? Of course, the Orange Sippy Cup™ and other Blog Boyz have strongly rallied to make it one in following the "leadership" of Obama and members of his campaign: McPeak, Jesse Jackson, Jr.

I have more cans I can open if you have more erroneous questions. Maybe clicking the link Lambert posted and reading eRiposte would be a good idea so you don't embarrass yourself further. I'll help out and get ya going with one snippet:

9. False Attacks on Sen. Clinton's Healthcare plan using GOP/Harry-and-Louise-Type Rhetoric and Ads

December 2007 onwards: Obama campaign launches false attacks on Sen. Clinton's healthcare plan using the worst kind of Republican talking points - and by borrowing Harry and Louise type ads from the 1990s. In using this tactic yet again, the Obama campaign effectively borrowed the tactics used by the GOP that helped defeat the Clinton healthcare plan and partly led to the defeat of Democrats in Congress in 1994.

And, before the Boy Blogz went all rah-rah from the revenue rush of the OFB, they were exceedingly outraged in October as was I over another new, improved "liberal" value via Obama, homophobia.

Is the "captain" for real or a College Republican posing as an Obama supporter out to sow disharmony? Sometimes I wonder. It could happen.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

really Rovian--that's Obama's big weakness, not Clinton's.

Obama is the one who's run away from labels, trashed and/or ignored all past Democratic achievements in favor of complimenting Republicans, encouraged "Republican for a day" voting in our primaries, and entirely falsely claimed that partisanship on ALL sides is why govt is "broken" instead of the intentional Republican strategy it's really been. He's insulted whole Dem voting blocs over and over--and still is not running on the practical issues Dems vote on in favor of the GOP strategy of personality, religion, and bs platitudes on a par with "morning in America".

Becki Jayne's picture
Submitted by Becki Jayne on

to become a 527 for a single candidate was an amazing unforced error. I’m sure a lot of lifelong Democrats like myself will never send them another nickel.

I'm with you on that one, vastleft. Opted out right after the Obama endorsement. No mo' money from me.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

Hope? Change you can believe in?

What's that mean?

"Change the way Washington does business?"

How? Constitutional amendments? Signing statements?

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

they haven't yet pulled out the "well, he'll be surrounded by really experienced people, so you don't have to worry about his inexperience" that was also a line with Dubya in 2000.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

ask an OFB how Obama would get the bills he wants passed with the GOP obstructing (and some dems defecting)

They have no clue how things work.

"He will like, use a new paradigm. He will take it directly to the people and they will force the GOP to cooperate."

I swear to Koresh, that's what one of them told me.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

Hillary crush republican with rock?

I'll tell you how Obama gets around GOP obstructionism. He's going to have majorities in both houses of congress. The Senate's liable to be 55 or 56 Dems. To get around a filabuster he'll only have to pick off a few Republicans. Once the Republicans are leaderless they are not going to be the well-disciplined machine you've come to expect. Obama can pick off some moderate Republicans (Arlen Specter, Susan Collins, Olympias Snowe, Joe Lieberman)to support a lot of his agenda, at least to the extent of voting for cloture.

Frankly I find your characterizatons of the "OFB" patronizing and your inflated sense of your own political savvy delusional.
Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

at Kos and Metafilter, and of course in real life too--it's useless--they really don't get that GOP obstruction works for them and that they won't give it up, and that sitting down with a party that doesn't even believe govt should be helping all is futile to begin with.

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

REAL DEMS THINK BHO IS MISOGYNIST

REAL DEMS DON'T THINK BHO SUPPORTS CHOICE

REAL DEMS DON'T READ THE DAILY KOS

REAL DEMS DON'T READ THE HUFFINGTON POST

REAL DEMS DON'T BELONG TO MOVEON.ORG

REAL DEMS BUPPORT HRC

BECAUSE REAL DEMS DON'T DRINK KOOL-AID

I come back to this website once every few weeks or so looking for a little growth, a little recognition that Hillary Clinton is a less committed liberal/progressive than Barack Obama and I keep getting disappointed. This website feels like a bizarre alternate universe. Question: in your world, does Barack Obama have a goatee?
Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

prove to me that Obama is a more committed liberal/progressive.

What has he done? - speeches don't count.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

He is more willing to engage in direct negotiations with governments that the Bush administration has refused to speak to. Hillary thinks that's naive.

He has indicated that he would require the top 5%of earners to pay as much payroll tax as lower income earners. Hill calls that "a trillion dollar tax increase on the middle class.

He doesn't support a flag burning amendment, Clinton does.

He supports a states right to issue drivers licenses to undocumented immigrants, Hillary does not.

He has been a stronger supporter of full civil partnership right for same sex couples than Clinton has been.

He does push nuclear deterrence as hard as Clinton does.

He's indicated more of a willingness to begin normalizing relations with Cuba than Clinton has.

He has pushed governmental transparency much more than Clinton has.

That's just off the top of my head.

Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

you are assuming that he'll have 100% compliance from Congressional Dems. Highly unlikely. We will be lucky to pick up a net 3-4 in the Senate, due to the demographics. Not many GOP seat will be in play.

Mitch McConnell will be back next year to lead the Senate GOP, so they won't be leaderless.

They still have money and the media, and the special interests will be "picking off" Dem votes.

But go ahead, explain how he's going to pick of some moderate GOP Senators. What's he gonna use to persuade them?

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

and since I'm feeling all NCIS right now,

(slaps table with flat hand)

Tell. Lambert. What. Obama. Has. Actually. Done.

Show. Proof.

What. Is. Obama's. Record? What. Has. He. DONE?

Don't give me 'hope,' 'unity,' misogynistic sloganeering or your own overinflated notions of the art of the dreamworld you want to weave around your hero, because

I. Do. Not. Buy. It.

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0


We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

1 John 4:18

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

Explain to me what mysoginistic sloganeering you are referring to. I'm not perfect and if I dropped any sexist sounding shit, I'd really like to know.

Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

Frankly I find your characterizatons of the “OFB” patronizing and your inflated sense of your own political savvy delusional.

My breath stinks, I'm overweight, and I have disgusting personal habits too.

But you came here to argue with me.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

they're in the minority--they've shut down tons of things this past year and are proud of it too--and they will do it until they win back the Senate.

Hillary, unlike Obama, has actually worked with the GOP on legislation, and Hillary actually has good relationships with some Repubs, if winning some over is needed.

And she'll do what LBJ and others did--she'll work the system and work the members, and threaten and fight them--and the weak Dem leaders too. She's not the one promising that their election will make obstruction disappear and unity somehow magically happen, but the one promising she'll endlessly work --and fight-- for things because important issues are worth the fight. Obama has never promised to fight for any specific issues and needs. He's promised to "sit down".

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

and they have the white house. It'll be very different with 5 or 6 more democratic senaters and a dem in the white house. I think you'll find them much less disciplined than they are now. And Hillary's not exactly the master of the Senate. She's mostly reached across the aisle to work on such "bi-partisan" gems as the Iraq War Resolution.

Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

about the federal judiciary (including SCOTUS) that is stocked with GOP appointed judges with a lifetime tenure.

They will have lots of fun finding new laws unconstitutional.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

what has he DONE?

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

WaPo-- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con... -- "... After weeks of arduous negotiations, on April 6, 2006, a bipartisan group of senators burst out of the "President's Room," just off the Senate chamber, with a deal on new immigration policy.
This Story

As the half-dozen senators -- including John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) -- headed to announce their plan, they met Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), who made a request common when Capitol Hill news conferences are in the offing: "Hey, guys, can I come along?" And when Obama went before the microphones, he was generous with his list of senators to congratulate -- a list that included himself.

"I want to cite Lindsey Graham, Sam Brownback, Mel Martinez, Ken Salazar, myself, Dick Durbin, Joe Lieberman . . . who've actually had to wake up early to try to hammer this stuff out," he said.

To Senate staff members, who had been arriving for 7 a.m. negotiating sessions for weeks, it was a galling moment. Those morning sessions had attracted just three to four senators a side, Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) recalled, each deeply involved in the issue. Obama was not one of them. ..."

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

So an old grandstanding, pompous, self-regarding Republican accused Obama of grandstanding. Big deal.

Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

are a state issue, not a federal issue

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

"He supports a STATES (sic) RIGHT to issue drivers licenses to undocumented immigrants, Hillary does not." (Emphasis added.)

Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

and the VP breaks ties. You need 5-6 GOP Senators to cross and so far they have been solid.

How will Obama break off enough GOP Senators to pass a bill?

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

& he didn't do work on any of them but wanted credit. Stop dismissing facts about his Senate tenure.

You really need to start paying attention to stuff that even his supporters in Congress say happened.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

Did you ever review how the GOP beat Hillary's original Health care reform plan? The Dems had the House and Senate, and still couldn't get it done.

The GOP media ran negative story after story, millions were spent on "Harry and Louise" ads (sound familiar?) to scare the old folks and more was spent by lobbyists to buy off Congress. Meanwhile the GOP used every trick to obstruct.

You do realize that most GOP Senators come from solid red states? Threatening them for reelection won't work. Some of the Dem Senators are from red states (like Tester) and they will be vunerable if they are perceived as too liberal.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

Hillary's arrogancy and imperiousness were a major cause of the failure of her healthcare plan.

Also, the GOP congress that stopped healthcare was a waxing GOP congress, this is a waning GOP congress. I think that'll make a difference. Plus Obama's more committed to progressive causes than Clinton was.

Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

Assume Obama tries to get it passed. He won't even get 50 votes in the Senate.

Sorry to tell you, but the red states will gin up enough noise that it will never fly. The GOP would love it, it would help them pick up seats in 2010.

Besides, Obama already said wouldn't want to waste his political capital on that issue.

That's an issue that has to be fought state by state.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

Ask what Obama has done and get a post on what he claims he will do.

I'll tell you some of what Obama has done. Obama watered down healthcare reform in Illinois at the request of the insurance industry. He rewrote his nuclear energy legislation to be more favorable to Exelon and then didn't get it passed (but claimed he did). During the standoff over timelines for Iraq, Obama used right-wing talking points to explain how the democrats would fold even before they folded. Obama voted for the Cheney energy bill. And to try to pad his thin resume, Obama has taken credit for other people's work.

Now, has Obama done some good things, I'm sure he has. But if you want to convince me that the guy who Harry & Louised universal healthcare is the more progressive centrist, you're going to have to do more than list a bunch of promises. George Bush promised to be a uniter who would return ethics to government. Any asshole can make a promise.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

to the GOP, and it'll be because they obstructed everything, and made Dem control into a "do-nothing Congress"--they'll simply ignore Obama when they're not attacking him.

Obama's already said over and over and over that partisanship and fights over issues are the old way of politics--Republicans and Dems in Congress don't believe that at all, and have no reason to work with him, or vote the way he wants at all.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

She's for it, has produced a detailed plan for it.

Everybody is against "waste fraud and abuse."

Cuba - Normalize relations, bye-bye Florida for the Dems. It's gone already in Obama's case so he has nothing to lose, but FL Dems will oppose.

The foreign policy issues aren't really liberal/progressive issues, but Hillary is much more experienced.

Flag burning is a wedge issue, it won't pass the House.

Let Obama raise taxes, and they'll call him a classic "tax and spend liberal."
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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

How does HRC get past GOP obstruction?
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on Fri, 2008-04-18 23:52.

Hillary crush republican with rock?


We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

1 John 4:18

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

Hillary’s arrogancy and imperiousness were a major cause of the failure of her healthcare plan.

Straight from Newt Gingrich's playbook.

The GOP used their obstructionism against Bill Clinton to win control of the House in 1994. Health care was a central part of their obstructionsim.

I was watching from the sidelines back then. I remember what happened. Read Molly Ivins.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

captainjohnbrown's picture
Submitted by captainjohnbrown on

I don't see it. My point was, that just because Hillary has tried to push this frame that she's the tough one and Obama's the wimp, doesn't mean she will actually be able to get into the White House and muscle her agenda through.

Cap'n John Brown

Cap'n John Brown

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

It will be a fight. The GOP isn't going to roll over for Hillary either.

I don't mean to pick on you but I've heard many Obama supporters express naive ideas about how he will "reach out" to moderate Republicans yadda yadda yadda. "Elect Barack, and eveybody will get a unity pony"

When Bill Clinton cut deals, they called him a sell-out and a triangulator. And that was the Democrats!

"Post-partisan" is a bullshit phrase.

BTW - All that nineties shit about the Clintons being divisive? They weren't, it was 100% the GOP.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

You heard it told that way because that's how the GOP and the Village told it. The way I heard it told Obama's an unpatriotic asshole who cheered his preacher's sermon blaming 9/11 on Americans and hangs out with domestic terrorists. See what I mean?

The reason healthcare didn't pass is because William 'The Bloody' Kristol wrote a memo on the Hill saying that it would be political death for the GOP if any kind of healthcare reform passed. The result was Bob Dole voting against bills with his own name on them. And let's not forget the notorious ad campaign by the health insurance industry, spending hundreds of millions of dollars. Of course, I recognize that the Obama folks think those ads were excellent.

But, of course, the GOP can't cop to the fact that they want Americans to keep dying from a lack of healthcare so they blame the bitch. The industry doesn't want to admit they would fight any reform and want to look like they can't wait to work together in Unity, so they're only too happy to sit silent while the bitch gets blamed. The media, pissed at being excluded from the advisory group meetings (where they would've been very helpful, I'm sure, given how much they care about policy and how much money they make from Viagra commercials and Harry & Louise ads) was happy to blame it on the bitch. And the democratic Congress who was disorganized and weak (sound familiar) was happy to blame it on the bitch because that meant nobody would blame them.

Which is not to say that Bill and Hillary Clinton didn't make some mistakes, it's just to say that the idea that we don't have universal healthcare because a woman was arrogant is bullshit. And if any thinking person stopped to think, they might ask themselves if that even makes any fucking sense.

Since so many Obamabot seem stuck in the MSM narrative, allow me to give you a couple of things to read about the failure of healthcare in the 1990s to perhaps alter your narrative. I would have thought after Wednesday, you might realize the MSM isn't a very reliable narrator.

See http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?arti... and http://tapdev.browsermedia.com/cs/articl...

If you want to read Bill Kristol's memo yourself - http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/onprin/...

You know it might be fun to debate issues with Obama supporters if their side of the debate consisted of more than reciting Obama's campaign promises and right-wing bullshit.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

and on working with the GOP and on his "postpartisanship"--McCain and Obama in 06-- http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/07/m...

"... a letter Obama sent him late last week, after he and several other Democrats attended a meeting hosted by McCain to discuss a bipartisan approach to lobbying and ethics reform.

In that letter, Obama expressed support for a reform bill being pushed by Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, rather than McCain's proposal for a bipartisan task force to look at legislation.

"I know you have expressed an interest in creating a task force to further study and discuss these matters, but I and others in the Democratic caucus believe the more effective and timely course is to allow the committees of jurisdiction (in the Senate) to roll up their sleeves and get to work on writing ethics and lobbying reform legislation that a majority of the Senate can support," Obama wrote.

In the letter he sent Monday, McCain accused the Democratic leadership of wanting "to use the issue to gain a political advantage in the 2006 elections." And he denied that his task force was designed to short-circuit the Senate committee process.

"The timely findings of a bipartisan working group could be very helpful to the committee in formulating legislation," McCain said. "I have consistently maintained that any lobbying reform proposal be bipartisan."

"As I explained in a recent letter to Senator Reid, and have publicly said many times, the American people do not see this as just a Republican problem or just a Democratic problem."

But in his rebuttal, Obama said he made it clear during last week's meeting that the Democratic caucus would insist that any reform plan go through the normal committee process -- and that he believes Reid's bill "should be the basis for a bipartisan solution." ..."

Why won't the GOP do the exact same thing Obama did? They will.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

I supported Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996. He was was better than Bush I, but the truth is he wasn't ready when he was first elected.

He didn't have the experience in Washington, and it showed. That's why his first couple years were the worst.

He had to learn on the job, and Hillary learned with him.

Obama just isn't ready. He needs to spend more time learning. He's only been in DC since 2005, and most of that time he's been running for President.

Obama supporters often try to denigrate Hillary's experience because she was only "married to the President." Even if that were true (it's not) just being that close to the action would have taught her many valuable lessons. But she was much more than the White House hostess.

Supporting Hillary is not a slam against Barack.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

Crush Republican. Crush with rock. Good Hillary. Do again.

Sounds fine to me. Another reason to support her.

Much better than Obama talk talk talk while Republican laugh laugh laugh.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

what's to stop Obama from deciding to get all postpartisan and appointing a Repub? He complimented Roberts a lot, and we see how that turned out.

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

blocked Bill's judicial appointments for several years? Filibustered hundreds of them.

But the Dems roll over for G-Dub's picks, no matter how atrocious, even though they are the majority.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

myiq2xu's picture
Submitted by myiq2xu on

when the media turns on Obama? Wednesday night was just a taste.

It will be the nineties all over again, but the OFB don't believe it.

It will be a rude awakening.

Mena Airport, Vince Foster, etc, etc. The MSNBC bad boys used to discuss the size, shape and "distinguishing characteristics" of the Clenis. Every freaking night.

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"Real ponies don't oink" - Patrick McManus

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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers

Becki Jayne's picture
Submitted by Becki Jayne on

He has been a stronger supporter of full civil partnership right for same sex couples than Clinton has been.

Prove it.

The captain offers a talking point that's braggadocios. Hillary has been stronger and she's smarter about how to move LGBT equality forward, like rescinding section 2, 3 of DOMA.

Obama doesn't even know that he has to get legislation passed to rescind "don't ask, don't tell." Oh, dear. He is so not ready for prime time.

"Obama is playing us" gays and lesbians as Rev. Irene Monroe, an African American, lesbian activist, LGBT columnist, and minister wrote recently.

Read The Advocate interview with Obama. It was appallingly wishy-washy.

Obama runs ads in gay publications. That's his "support" but he shuns interviews with the local gay press like he did in Philly. Hillary didn't. It caused a positive ripple in the LGBT community when she held a presser call with local gay media in Ohio and Texas. Obama sent a spokesman against the objections of the gay media and the guy was insulting. See story here.

Chelsea campaigns at gay bars. She and Gov. Rendell did the gay pub crawl last night in Philly to campaign for Tuesday.

You want linkies? Got a bunch at The RealSpiel and I can point to others. I'm in the LGBT community, the liberal side, btw, not with the Log Cabin sell-outs.

Here's one from The Advocate election blog from yesterday:

While the Philadelphia Gay News decided to refrain from endorsing a candidate, citing the fact that it was "too close" to the issue, it added, "...what we can do is urge you to look at the endorsements from the LGBT political organizations in Pennsylvania. To our knowledge, not a single one has endorsed Obama." True, Philly's Liberty City Democratic Club and Pittsburgh's Steel City Stonewall Democrats both endorsed Hillary. Harriburg's Capital Region Stonewall Dems have remained silent on the race.

Also I was reminded by a commenter there who wrote this: "Philly got this one right. Obama feels fine to be associated with folks like Rev. Wright and William Ayers, yet he refused to be seen or photographed with SF Mayor Gavin Newsom because of his pro-gay marriage stand. The day after trolling for gay votes in Texas, he stated he wants Senator Hagel as part of his administration. And then there was the whole Donnie McClurkin fiasco."

Do you think Obama will march in a Gay Pride parade this year, usually held in June, some in September? I bet Chicago would welcome Barry in their march. Hillary has marched twice in NYC's Pride and I expect her to do it again this year.

Why do you think Sir Elton John supported Hillary by performing a fundraising concert? He has an AIDS foundation so he's keen on who he endorses. David and Elton got married in the UK and they are picky about their political affiliations.

Seriously, Obama has a lot of fences to mend with the LGBT community.

Aeryl's picture
Submitted by Aeryl on

I go to bed and someone new comes out to play.

Here is a wonderful breakdown of Obama's "progressive" agenda.

"when public opinion and support for the war was at its highest, he was quoted in the July 27, 2004 Chicago Tribune as saying, “There’s not that much difference between my position and George Bush’s position at this stage. The difference, in my mind, is who’s in a position to execute.”

Or

"In 2005, Obama joined Republicans in passing a law dubiously called the Class Action Fairness Act (CAFA) that would shut down state courts as a venue to hear many class action lawsuits."

And maybe

"Case in point: an amendment he voted on as part of a recent bankruptcy bill before the US Senate would have capped credit card interest rates at 30 percent. Inexplicably, Obama voted against it, although it would have been the beginning of setting these predatory lending rates under federal control. Even Senator Hillary Clinton supported it."

Obama's progressive agenda is a fairy tale. Almost everyone one of his policy proposals(except Soc. Sec., that's straight from Goolsbee, and privatization hack) are nothing more than watered down Clinton proposals. That's how he plans to "work with" Republicans, by watering down his policies before the negotaitions begin.

That's smart. Not.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond

zuzu's picture
Submitted by zuzu on

blocked Bill’s judicial appointments for several years? Filibustered hundreds of them.

They didn't have to filibuster them. Orrin Hatch simply didn't let them out of committee, or he allowed holds on the nominations. Filibusters would have made them look bad.

Chelsea *and* Ed Rendell did the gay bar pub crawl? Damn, I'm really liking Ed. Chelsea, too, but I already knew she did a lot of campaigning in the LGBT community.

Aeryl's picture
Submitted by Aeryl on

Have I ever told you how much I love you!:)

That article is great. It points out so much that i wasn't aware of, like the fact that the secretive attack came because they wouldn't allow special interest to become involved in the working groups, and that it was actually more open than most typical program initiatives.

Ooh, look at that, Pres. Clinton acknowledged that it failed Congress because of his mistakes. Responsiblity!! It has been so long since I've seen that, I almost failed to recognize it.

I like this line

held that the administration should go to Congress with a big program intentionally including elements that could be bargained away later

Which is what Obama is not doing. He has already gutted his programs, so that anything bargained away will not be real change, just more of the same. I think he really believes that but gutting it now, it will face minimal opposition, which just demonstrates he really doesn't understand how this works.

It has been really depressing to see the OFB scream that Clinton is using RW, when Obama has used them from the start. These people have no intellectual consistency, from what I can see.

Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!

He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond