I think God needs to shed a little more grace on this guy.

But I still believe
And I will rise up with fists!!

Wow. Of course what can you expect from Berkeley, seems to be the subtext at CNN. Yes, how much more terrible to suggest that Marines kill than for Marines to actually kill.

Pretty nifty, MJS

Four-plus years of my life spent in Berkeley, and a good-sized piece of my heart is still there. It saddens me to see this kind of behavior. As I recall the discussions, the classical liberal and progressive position is that freedom of speech doesn’t mean anything unless we preserve it for those with whom we most vehemently disagree. That is the sort of progressive liberal I am. Unfortunately, some on the Left are just as tyrannical as some on the Right, and so this kind of petty intolerance is allowed to blossom and become entrenched.

A) The question of war and peace does not rest with our military, neither the enlisted nor the officers nor the institutions themselves. Attacking them, especially attacking them for doing their jobs exactly as we have asked them to swear they would do, is unjust, unfair, and worst of all hypocritical.

B) We, collectively, have decided that an all-volunteer military is desirable. Suspending the draft in 1973 was a Left-driven agenda item and warmly received. But without a draft, exactly how is the military to maintain its strength? By magic? If there is to be no recruitment, then reinstate the draft. If the draft is to be kept suspended, then allow recruitment. The Left can’t have it both ways.

C) It is the Right, by sending our citizens to slaughter for no useful purpose and subsequently abandoning them once they return, that is foul and disgusting. By attacking the service and the troops, as is being done here, the Left provides an opportunity (IMHO a fully justified opportunity) for the Right to paint progressives and liberals as unpatriotic, callous and traitorous. It makes no sense to provide that opportunity.

D) The real problem lies in the civilian authority, principally with the Bush administration. Attacking them does make sense. A City Council motion declaring Bush and Cheney and Rice and whoever else as persona non grata would be fully justified. A resolution calling for the arrest of Bush and Cheney, as is being considered in Brattleboro VT, is also justified. Voting to close down a recruiting office, condemning Marines as wanton killers, is not justified and serves only to divert attention from the real problem. Tactically, morally, from every angle, it is a huge mistake.

This fellow in the picture is certainly free to speak his mind, whatever. For the city council, an elected body, to condemn the whole of the United States Marine Corps is not acceptable to me, and I condemn their action. Place blame where it belongs, instead of lashing out at the nearest available target regardless of culpability. Shame, shame, on this illiberal behavior by the Berkeley City Council.

Thankfully, it's still true that the military follows civilian authority in the US, but you can't really separate the military from what it's doing.

The military's job is to break things and kill people. That's like the F=MA of defense, it's universal and it must be considered in any question about defense.

Right now, adding people to the Marines just gives the current administration more resources to screw things up with. And anyone entering the Marines now is going to be sent to a foreign land to kill people trying to expel a foreign occupying army, not to defend the USA from conquest or invasion.

The US military has been mostly used in the past to make the rich richer, and these days, the republicans have turned defense spending into a giant taxpayer-funded kickback-based political slush fund.

The US military needs to be smaller, not bigger. It needs fewer people, not more. All the hyper-sized US military accomplishes is to invite military adventurism in US administrations and fund republican politics.

is exactly what needs to happen when considering protest, and yes you can. Making a distinction between capability (“break things and kill people”) and mission (which may be to protect innocents from other forces bent on death and destruction) is also key to critical thinking and focused protest.

Civilian authority defines the mission, the military carries it out. Military commanders spend a lot of time pushing back against civilian authority, trying to get the mission defined so they know what it is they’re being asked to do; failure to adequately define the mission leads inevitably to failure in the field, and nobody in the armed services wants to fail. Contrary to common mythology, very few members of the military actually want to engage in combat; people get killed in combat and dying for one’s country is properly viewed by sane people as a cost and a consequence, not an opportunity.

Countering the mission needs to be done by focusing protest on civilian authority, not on the members of the military who are following lawful orders and all of whom would be more than happy to come home and never fight another war. Absent blatant illegality, the military deserves considerable respect from civilians; without the dedication and sacrifice of the military, none of us would have our freedoms; period.

By all means attack the disgusting policies of our current civilian government. Picket, strike, chant, petition, whatever, and a military recruiting office is certainly a reasonable place to do that. But ascribing blanket horrible intent to members of the military – as the foolish slogan in that sign and the city council resolution both do – is not only unjustified but strategically counterproductive; it only serves to provide fodder for counterattack by the maniacal Right and degrades the value of reasoned anti-imperialist argument.

[Self-correction: In my previous comment I referred to “This fellow in the picture…” but it turns out the protest is by Code Pink and most of the people appear to be female. Mia culpa, declining vision, failure to confirm first impression, poor choice of words, and no offense intended; sorry about that.]

This was originally a parody ad in Nat Lamp in the 60's.

As long as the mission is theoretical, and may be just and legal warfare or deterrence.

However, that is not the situation we are in -- the wave function has collapsed, we know what the state is.

Anyone joining the Marines right now will be sent to a far off country to kill people. In an illegal war. Killing people who are mostly trying to expel a foreign occupier.

In that situation, it is perfectly legitimate to protest -- to make things difficult for Marines trying to recruit kids through deception, to make sure anyone walking through the doors knows what will happen if they join, and to remind the community that they can fight back, and that some are fighting back.

"Like most Americans, I really get disturbed when taxpayer money goes to institutions which proceed to take votes, make policy or make statements that really denigrate the military," said Sen. David Vitter, R-Louisiana, a co-sponsor of the bill.

David Vitter, R-Stupidity Afoot, considers that women in pink who don't want more children or adults -- Iraqi, American, merc or innocent-bystander -- killed in a war are doing more to take votes, make policy, or make statements that really denigrate the military than W? than Petraeus? than the GOP in general? than Cheney and Halliburton? than the still-snafu VA?

Gimme a break.

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

Every confrontation with the military collapsed back on the protest movement, escalated tensions, hardened everyone's position, provided an easy means for demonizing liberals that still persists, created longterm animosity in the military for the Left - and solved nothing.

But by all means, exercise your right to make things worse by going after people who are as much victims of this insane administration as anyone else. No reason whatsoever to spend that same energy going right straight after the actual criminals.

The bad people are wearing civvies; leave the uniforms alone.

they will run out...?

++++

you saved me from kent state
you kept my union strong
your patriotism paid
just tryin' to get laid
how can anything go wrong?

you have saved me from grenada
you have steered me clear in guam
you shot 'em dead
you're welcome, fred
without a doubt, you are the bomb

oh, baby, you are the bomb
boom boom, you are the bomb
bombs away
come this summertime
there will be hell to pay
baby...
you are the bomb

a price beyond compare
your life and limb unbound
who is it lights the wick
who gets beaten with your stick
soldiers lost and soldiers found

got your heart back home in Kansas
got your woman in Tennessee
sometimes you hear the tick
it makes your heart go sick
when your job is make it bleed

oh, baby, you are the bomb
boom boom, you are the bomb
bombs away
come this summertime
there will be hell to pay
baby...
you are the bomb

you saved me from kent state
you kept my union strong
your patriotism paid
just tryin' to get laid
how can anything go wrong?

you have saved me from grenada
you have steered me clear in guam
you shot 'em dead
you're welcome, fred
without a doubt, you are the bomb

++++

myself -- at the time it looked like maybe the only way I'd ever be able to afford to learn to fly. Ended up not mattering: my vision wasn't correctable enough.

The men and women in uniform today can't be that much different than the men and women I knew in uniform -- and the dependents and spouses who made up the extended family of a SAC base -- 30 years ago. They can't.

They can be good, hard-working, honest people trying to figure out a way to get ahead or keep afloat or make a living for their families, trying to do the right thing by the country they love, busting theirs every day because that's how you earn the princely salary and the kingly benefits enlisted life brings; I know they can, 'cause I served with men and women like that.

They can be scumsucking worthless pieces of work, too; I know they can, 'cause I served with men and women like that, too.

But I still think the real irony here isn't the women in pink, or that Berkeley has adopted a "get tougher than the tough guys" stance (which, as Bringiton notes, will fail again like it failed in the 1960s) -- it's that a highly-reviled Louisiana Senator believes a handful of protesters do more damage than the military itself does to its image, its members, its morale, and, ultimately, its standing in the eyes and hearts and souls of Americans.

Civil liberties only rot by disuse and neglect, and very clearly I’m not arguing for anything other than being active. My caution is about the focus. If the point of a protest is to draw attention to an issue and change minds to your way of thinking, this approach by the Berkeley City Council is a stone looser.

The backlash will be all about the unpatriotic DFH and call it wrong, call it unfair, but that’s what will resonate. Vitter’s bill is DOA, but the reason he puts out his ridiculous proposition is that it will sell. More than likely there’ll be another empty resolution condemning Berkeley that will pass the Senate 96-2 and everyone on the Left will be outraged as though it was unpredictable.

While time and attention is diverted once again from anything meaningful, all that will remain in most people’s memory is that the Left hates our brave men and women in uniform – a terrific accomplishment.

This, on the other hand, was excellent:

^{(Charles Dharapak-AP)}

being any more undignified or dishonest than the military recruiters who have been shown to have lied to potential recruits, gone into unethical liaisons with curious teen girls, and accepted candidates who admitted to drug use and other physical/mental defects.

I mean jiminy cricket, it's all well and good for us DFH not to act like DFH or anything, as if we'd be considered as any better human beings if we acted like the widow with ointment and kneeled to spit shine each recruiter's boots in gratitude for their service. Face it -- our military will hate us whether we suck up to them or wish them out of a job, because we sent them into hell, and we didn't go ourselves, or make their transition any easier, once they managed to beat the odds and come back alive.

In an organization where their bodies and speech are owned by the state, what would active soldiers tell us to say to end this war, if they were allowed to tell us?

I want Code Pink to do their job and at least create one place where a local government doesn't assume the military gets everything it needs, PR-wise. I really don't think the recruiters don't give a damn, since they know very few governments will actually go against the military-industrial infotainment complex and allow a protest group to get that close.

At 1:00 AM this morning the Berkeley City Council voted 7-2 to rescind a measure passed two weeks ago, directing the City Manager to send a letter to the Marine Corps Recruiting Center calling them "uninvited and unwelcome intruders" in the city. The new resolution goes on to say that "We deeply respect and support the men and women in our armed forces" and that the council opposes "the recruitment of our young people into this war" while recognizing "the recruiters' right to locate in our city and the right of others to protest or support their presence." A bit of a hash, but compromises often are.

The motion was passed after a day of sometimes violent protests that brought out a large police presence to keep peace, and following testimony from 100 speakers. Left intact was a previous measure that encouraged "all people to avoid cooperation with the Marine Corps recruiting station," another that asked the city attorney to investigate whether the recruiting station is breaking the city's law against discrimination based on sexual orientation, and two measures giving CodePink a free weekly parking space and a once-a-week sound permit for use of a bullhorn in their protest at the recruiting station.

(Two of Berkeley’s finest making their point, while a double cordon of police keeps protestors separated. Photo: Alison Yin/Oakland Tribune)

The previous measure condemning the Marines had been broadly unpopular, receiving wide spread condemnation including mine. Last Friday, CodePink decided to up the ante by chaining themselves to the Recruiting Office door and completely blocking the entrance. Police were called and the arrests were peaceful, but the escalation pushed many more people to speak out against CodePink’s actions and over the weekend things really heated up.

Every area paper that ran editorials, including my generally liberal local one, was critical of the city and CodePink. One on-line newspaper poll showed 85% disapproval, and a city council member announced that of the 26,000 emails he had received, more than 24,000 were critical of the city. US Representative Barbara Lee (D, CA-9) has refused to issue any statement at all, a deafening silence, and without Lee’s support the council knew they had lost the argument. Most older lefties, like myself, who have gone through this before with Vietnam, were strongly opposed to both the council’s actions and those of CodePink. Going after the uniformed military was strategically and morally wrong back then, and it still is today.

Anon just above asks ”In an organization where their bodies and speech are owned by the state, what would active soldiers tell us to say to end this war, if they were allowed to tell us?” As it turns out, the active duty Marine officer in charge has spoken, in writing. Here’s part of what Captain Lund said:

” I agree that your stated goals of peace and social justice are worthy ones. War is a terrible thing that should only be undertaken in the most dire, extreme, and necessary of circumstances. However, war is made by politicians. The conflict in Iraq was ordered by the president and authorized by Congress. They are the ones who have the power to change the policy in Iraq, not members of the military.”

All true and accurate. Why CodePink persists in protesting at a recruiting station is bewildering to me. I have suggested to them that their effort would be better served at the Federal Office Building in Oakland, or the one in San Francisco or the one in San Jose; those buildings represent the civilian authority that controls decisions of war and peace. My suggestion was, ahem, not warmly received, and that’s a shame. Being unwilling to rethink strategy, especially when losing, is not a hallmark of the liberal mind.

Since outside expert opinion is valued here I cite Country Joe MacDonald, another ancient leftie who opposes this kind of protest and one whose anti-war credentials are unassailable. Joe served an honorable six year hitch with the Navy, and while protesting against war for the last 40+ years he has also devoted his time and talent to supporting veteran’s issues including physical and psychiatric rehabilitation, addiction, unemployment and homelessness. Joe has worked tirelessly to bring together in common cause those who are opposed to war and those who directly suffer from it. Here is his web site comment:

I am shocked that the Berkeley City Council and the Mayor took the action they did concerning a Marine Recruitment Office in downtown Berkeley. The whole thing is just plain wrong. I want to post this letter from the recruiter in the office that was printed in the Berkeley Daily Planet newspaper as it certainly clarifies many things.

For those who are too young to remember Country Joe, and for those are old enough, here’s a little something dredged out of a dusty bin way in the back of the museum; because Country Joe just lit ‘em up at Woodstock when he gave this impromptu performance, because the opening cheer fits with this blog more than any other, and because you just can’t get too much Olde Skool [Warning - Probably NSFW]:

Peace.