The ice floe cometh

Would someone more expert than I about Social Security and Medicare please take a crack at Newsweek's Robert J. Samuelson's "Young Voters, Get Mad — You need to appeal to the shame and guilt of older Americans"?

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Samuelson is a liar

while Social Security doesn't need fixing, there is a way to improve its solvency without cutting benefits or raising the retirement age.

increase the minimum wage.

Benefits are calculated based on your best 35 years of earnings. Years in which minimum wage (and wages that rise when the minimum wage rises)is earned will not be included in the calculations if the person has 35 better years -- in other words, increasing the minimum wage will not have much of an impact on future benefit levels because people who work for 45 years will spend most of their lives in higher paying jobs for 35 of those years.

But by raising the minimum wage, you increase payroll tax receipts -- more money goes into the system, but it has little impact on benefit levels.

or create well-paying jobs--

that'd help--in all sorts of ways.

& tax all income, not just the first 60k or

whatever low amount it is.

Low Paying Jobs Increase Generational Friction

I'll go look for more info, but since the 1970s there has been a shifting of wealth away from the younger folks to the older folks. This has come in a variety of ways from cutting school spending to cutting welfare to cutting student aid for colleges and focusing on loans. Add to that wages have been stagnant for 30 years. The younger you are, the more screwed you are by this since every year it gets more expensive.

Meanwhile, you're scraping by with two young children and no health insurance, but every two weeks they take money out of your paycheck so people like Warren Buffett can be covered by Medicare.

Now, I know a lot of people other than Warren Buffett get and need Medicare. But the problem is that we have cut aid for the poorest while leaving intact and even expanding (drug program) the money that goes out that is not means tested and that money is almost always given to the elderly (this is no coincidence the elderly are more politically active and overall have more money to influence politics - there is no AARP equivalent for poor, working families).

Understandably this leads to generational resentment.

The problem is that what is so often proposed to even things out is not reinstating or beefing up aid given to young people and working families, it's cutting aid to the elderly (many of whom need it and have paid into the system). The answer it seems to me is not to stir up young people's resentment, but to stir up older folks' sense of fairness. Every older American who benefits from Medicare should be arguing and voting that younger Americans get the same health coverage. Every older American who benefits from the social security safety net should be arguing for a safety net for working Americans paying to provide their social security net, including raising the minimum wage. But that's not what we're getting. Because the folks making these arguments don't care about solving poverty or healthcare problems, they care about cutting government further.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

IIRC, the essence of the Reagan/O'Neill compromise

... was that payroll taxes would be increased, for my generation, exactly so I could (a) help pay for my parents and (b) also pay for my own generation.

So, I have nothing to be guilty or ashamed of at all; I have already paid.

The people who should be guilty and ashamed are the people who are trying to steal my money -- but as we saw from the Bush + Reid + Pelosi + Obama + Paulson bailout bill, that will never happen while the Village has anything to say about it.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Intergenerational Fighting

Does anyone remember what Ken Melman was pushing during the Social Security debate? You should.

Melman was outlining a strategy to target young people by saying they should be allowed to keep "their" money WRT social security. This is one of the things that bothered me about Obama's use of intergeneration fighting (you know, the old hags are keeping Obama down). Its why the libertarian bent of the "creative class" bothers me. These two facets encompass exactly what Melman dreamed about and if Obama were to give his blessings (or get pressured enough by the Broders), the Kewl Kidz will go hog wild trying to use their influence on us to "reform" social security.

Only tyrants rig elections.

And it's exactly what Sully was aiming for...

... in his Atlantic endorsement. I read this:

Obama’s candidacy in this sense is a potentially transformational one. Unlike any of the other candidates, he could take America—finally—past the debilitating, self-perpetuating family quarrel of the Baby Boom generation that has long engulfed all of us.

And thought Uh oh...

Wonder what Kos thinks about all this over at Cato?

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

What is

WRT?

with regard to

(i think)

That's what I have been saying

We boomers have ALREADY paid for our SS, BEFORE getting it. Why on earth should the younger generation be mad at us? They should be mad at those wealthy people that have been busy trying to steal that fund we have been paying into for all these decades.

He's just trying to deflect the anger away from those thieves that have been dipping into the funds to funnel money to their cronies and themselves. He's just another one of those scammers like all those others that have been busy talking people out of their pensions.

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. So is a lot." - Albert Einstein

You Have Not Already Paid for Social Security

That's not how the system was designed. You paid for your parents' social security. My generation will pay for yours and the next generation will pay for mine. And, many people will collect more from social security than they put in, but that's okay. The system was designed that way and not as some sort of savings account where you collect your contributions when you get older. What permits this is the growth in population and the increase in wages. 1% of a paycheck now is more than it was in 1970 (although not much more when controlling for inflation).

But the real resentment is coming from the overall economic difference between generations. As this country's wages and economy have declined, people born later do worse than their parents. From USA Today:

•Ages 55-59: Median net worth — the middle point for all households — rose 97% over 15 years to $249,700 in 2004, the most recent year for which data is available. Median income rose 52%.

•Ages 35-39: Median household net worth fell 28% to $48,940. Median income fell 10%.

The increase in the wealth of older people tracks a sharp reduction in elderly poverty that began in the 1960s, when Medicare was introduced and Social Security benefits were improved.

The wealth gap between young and old is on a path to grow even more extreme. Baby boomers — 79 million people born from 1946 to 1964 — are entering their years of greatest wealth and maximum government benefits.

Today, the oldest baby boomer is 61. The youngest is 43. As tens of millions of people head into their years of peak wealth, inequality could soar until baby boomers pass on inheritances to their children or grandchildren.

The inequality debate has focused mostly on the super-rich, who have been getting super-richer. The top-earning 1% of taxpayers — those who make more than $310,000 annually — collected 17% of total income in 2005, up from 13% in 1989 and 8% in 1975, according to Internal Revenue Service data analyzed by economists Thomas Piketty at the Paris School of Economics and Emmanuel Saez of the University of California, Berkeley.

IRS data don't include information on age, race and education. A USA TODAY analysis of Federal Reserve and Census data found that demographics — especially age — could be the most important and overlooked factor behind the widening gap.

The old are richer

Most wealth accumulation happens rapidly and late in life — after the kids leave, when income is high, debts drop, 401(k) accounts fatten and home equity swells, according to Fed data.

The safety net — Social Security, pensions and Medicare — also has resulted in big increases in income for the elderly and a sharp decline in the rate at which they dissipate their assets in old age. Most people over 60 have no mortgage debt, no credit card debt and no car loan.

Trends for younger people have gone in the opposite direction. Mortgage debt peaks for people in their late 30s, the same time they have the most kids at home. About 11% are at least 60 days behind paying on some debt.

Medicare and social security are largely wealth transfer programs where those of working age provide a safety net for older folks. What makes that an issue is that America is in an economic decline where the later you were born, the more economic disadvantage you're at. And the safety nets aimed at helping working folks have been gutted over the past 30 years while wages have stagnated, the cost of education has soared, and housing has gone through the roof. They make less and pay more.

Instead of fighting over how to screw each generation, what we should be doing is fighting to help each generation. It makes no sense that older folks get medicare but families with young children don't. The way to stop all this nonsense is to figure out how government can help all generations live healthy, successful lives.

And that's where all this "guilt" the other generation is unhelpful. It's a good thing poverty rates for the elderly are markedly down. It's a terrible thing poverty rates for the young are not. That's something older Americans need to join with younger Americans to work to fix. But instead of focusing on that, it's so much easier for the media to build resentment. And, hey, when you make $8 an hour and see money going out of your paycheck to pay for Medicare for the old guy who owns your company while you can't take your sick kid to the doctor, it's kind of easy to get resentful.

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt

Former SS Sommissioner Robert Ball

proposed a solution that would insure SS solvency for at least the next 75 years.

Robert M. Ball Plan

More info about the plan can be found here.

there are probs with that plan, scoff

cutting cost-of-living is no good if we have inflation and food cost increases like now.

and investing the trust fund in the market is absolutely a terrible idea.

raising the amount of income subject to SS tax is the best way to go, i think.

Cost of living increases

would only be reduced by about 0.25% according to Ball's plan. From the Ball Plan link:

The plan would avoid major benefit cuts. Like most other reform proposals, however, it does include minor changes in the cost-of-living adjustments to reflect corrections in the Consumer Price Index recommended by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Ball's plan also proposes:

Investment of a portion of Social Security's assets in stocks should be done gradually... starting with 1 percent in 2007, 2 percent in 2008, and so on, up to 20 percent in 2026 and capped at that percentage of assets thereafter. Investments should be limited to a very broad index fund (such as the Wilshire 5000) that reflects virtually the entire American economy.

Tha Ball Plan was first proposed in 1999. I'm sure it could be revised to take into account to the changes we've seen in our economy since then. It's simplicity and the fact that it works within the existing structure of SS make it worth studying, IMO.

the stock thing--

i can't buy it--who would administer it? what would their take be? and the fees? and what kind of guarantee for us if there are losses?

1% quickly becomes more once you add in fees and stuff--at least it does for mutual funds.

It's all about the fees

That's all Ball's plan is -- fees for the brokers, which they now need, after the latest bubble burst.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Minimum wage + immigration

That alone could increase the money going into SS.

Take a look at the various projections for SS and see what sort of variables increase its longevity.

Only tyrants rig elections.

Payroll tax

Starting in 2009, the amount of earnings subject to payroll tax rises from $102,000 to $106,000.

And we don't need to invest SS money in the market. It would help if the gov't would stop spending it on other things and just put the money into Treasury bills or maybe CDs. Remember Gore's "social security lockbox" and all the grief he took in 2000 because of that? Imagine.

they should make it for all pay no matter how high

--millionaires get SS--they should pay a comparable percentage like the rest of us do.

That is in the plan for HR 676

It covers everyone (all US residents), and here's how it is to be funded (from the Healthcare Now! link):

Maintain current federal and state funding for existing healthcare programs; employer payroll tax of 4.75, an employee payroll tax of 4.75; establish a 5% health tax on the top 5% of income earners; 10% tax on top 1% of wage earners, 1/3rd of 1% stock transaction tax, closing corporate tax loop-holes; repeal the Bush tax cut for the highest income earners.

---------------
We can't afford not to have single-payer!

that's the way to go with all big programs

tax all income no matter how high or low, if the program is for all Americans.

I'm no more expert than you

But I already have enough boomer guilt. And the newsweek guy should be plenty ashamed. He's pretty condescending to the yung'uns he claims to be so concerned about -- their innocence and gullibility!

People can work longer, he says. He's speaking from his position of privilege. He's 62 and he has friends who are old, well good for him. His and their soc sec checks will probably be starbucks pocket money in a few years. For other people it will be 100% of their income.

How much longer must a person work -- 63, 65, now 67, soon 70 -- at jobs like cleaning lady, truck loader, waitress, nurse, teacher, painter, plasterer, mechanic, contruction worker, and on and on, so many physical labors that don't involve sitting passively at a computer and being unable to come up with a rational thought, such as Samuelson's job seems to be.

And AARP the citadel? Give me a break. AARP gave us the medicare drug bill with all the confusing ever-changing choices, and no gov't ability to negotiate drug prices. AARP is just another insurance company (for the most part).

I admit that there was a time when I first entered the full time work force, a lifetime ago, and had to support myself, that I thought I really could use those few dollars that went to SS every week Right Now!! And it was supposed to be a "voluntary" contribution that I didn't volunteer for.

I think the yung'uns are way smarter. They know that eventually they'll get old too, and then what?

This guy is an idiot. "Rhetorical pledges of worrying about their children" -- WTF about the bailout my grandson is gonna be paying for?

I remember so many election years my mother used to ask me: What do you think they're going to do about Soc Sec? They keep threatening.

and I was confident enough those years to say: They're not going to do anything. They wouldn't dare.

So now Samuelson is suggesting that if I ask my son the same question several years from now, my son's answer should be: FU mom?

FU Samuelson.