isn’t that lack of organization kinda the appeal of the Democratic Party? I could never be a Green because they are, from my experience, too homogeneous and do not tolerate dissent well. We’re all fallible and dissent is important.

Here’s the thing: I think partisanship is healthy for the country. It means people are passionate about the issues. If we all went along with Unity Ponies, well, what would that say? Some crazy right-wingers have valid points as do some crazy left-wingers. But they are also wrong on a lot of things. Same with those in the middle. But at least partisanship leads to debate. Obama’s wish to prevent funds from going to third parties has me sufficiently spooked as complete control of the narrative may be good for a president, but it is horrible for a functioning democracy.

If we think this election is bad, take a look at the 1800 election. That was pretty intense. But you know, we survived. Look what happened when we stopped to smoke the Unity Pony under Bush. The Dems acquiesced, the media acquiesced and the excrement hit the air conditioner.

People who think this election is so awful have little historical perspective. The founding fathers, the supposed paragons of anti-partisanship, were amongst the most partisan. Sure there are childish people around, but at least many of them are passionate about the future of the country. When people are silent, bad things can happen more easily.

I should get some leeway as I’m pretty busy writing and preparing my dissertation defense :o).

stick to critiques of the Democratic leadership on my blog since they are acting in a way that is frankly bizarre and flies in the face of what they of all people should be aware of given the history and facts of past elections.

happily immune to all religious indoctrination

First CQ, go and tend to your thesis (speaking as one directed 25 CQs and has 5 on the way).

It all makes sense, but being spooked now is kind of late. In February it was already clear that Obama’s movement has way too many symptoms of a fascist movement. Krugman said as much using nice American language. Of course parties are crucial to democracy; postpartisanship implies moving away from democracy. We had 10,000 years of politics under the belt. Now comes a guy who is going to change it. Sure.

The democrats are in the middle of a big internal fight. Some are more logical than others, but by and large it all seems quite hysterical and nonsensical. The DNC is suicidal and there is nothing we can do about it. It is always like that.

Very few of us listens, very few understand what is said, very few hear the dissonance of the voices. It will stays like that. We are at the mercy of the leadership we happen to have.

Now we are in a real danger, because the Obama campaign envies the Bush control, his total independence of opposing groups and ideas. If you don’t vote for Obama - he’ll form a coalition without you, if your organization, i.e. DNC, has even a semblance of control - he’ll use his own infrastructure, if there are some partners to his fight - he’ll starve them of money. Rove is Bush’s brain, who’s Obama’s?

Been interesting, hasn’t it? A lesson a day, feels like, and more on the way. Yep, Progressiveville is much smaller than it seemed, but now that you know who is who you’ll be better prepared for the battle yet to come.

First we get somebody who is Not-R in the White House, and then we settle back down for a nice solid chew on whatever leg we can get hold of. More of the same, yes, but with a less maniacal crowd in charge so there’s a plus.

I have a position piece coming that takes a strong stance on the primary. Please don’t hit me too hard.

I think that before we try listening to other people, we need to start listening to ourselves (as individuals — we can get to the collective ’ourselves’ later).

CD isn’t writing about THEM, and what THEY think, and what THEY believe…she’s writing about YOU, and YOUR insistence upon YOUR opinion rather than listening to what THEY have to say, and maybe even trying to communicate with THEM using THEIR frame of reference.

The problem (in MY opinion) is that the blogosphere is really has only two modes — intimate conversation between a small group of people, or Nuremberg rally. On a small blog, one person can say “Fuck Edwards”, and Edwards becomes a topic of actual conversation, because “Fuck Edwards” has already been said. But on larger blogs, its really not about listening or conversation at all — its about ME, and MY, opinion, and MY frustration with John Edwards — and here comes the concern troll and FUCK HIM TOO.

I don’t know what the solution to CDs dilemma is, but can we at least TRY to listen to what she has to say, and respond to it on her terms, rather han justify our own existences?

Sent last night.

but the thing is, why the hell are they all following the Obama line? (or at least the party heads?) Seriously? It makes me happy to have people having serious conversations about needing a new party if the Dems refuse to listen to them, half the party. Pure glee, it’s what I’ve been talking about for years as I’ve never felt that the Dems truly stood up for my rights as a woman (I point to all that’s happened lately and their lack of a spine in Congress).

happily immune to all religious indoctrination

yes…

and even though I hadn’t checked my email since monday, and only saw yours about two hours ago, its been an hour since I responded and I can’t underatand why you are ignoring me! ;-)

… got the 19th Amendment passed, enfranchising women. Seems like the appropriate scale to work on.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

[Numbers approximate!]

That is an acute observation, Paul — conversation or rally. And a power curve is what the kind of scale free network we are, and are (fractally) embedded in develop. (We are way, way up on the power curve — there is a long tail of 4 million blogs with 5 readers, yet only 5000 or so with the number of readers we have, even though our circulation is tiny by Kos standards.) So, I think what you have observed is what happens when one goes up the curve. If we had one order of magnitude greater hits — 50,000 rally vs 5,000 (well, 7,000, at least right now) almost-still-conversation indeed we would have a very different community in kind. Quantity changes quality… Note also that a scale free network is vulnerable to attack at the hubs (exactly like the airline system) where a “hub” is a site like Kos. I think if the history of this campaign is written, it will be found that Axelrod’s astrotrufing operation successfully targeted the hubs. It wouldn’t take very many people. So I think the challenge is to construct a different sort of network where all the power doesn’t flow up to the hubs and then get creamed off, and so conversation remains. But I don’t know how to this, quite.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

I have never, and will never vote ’against’ a candidate. I vote based on the platform and whether or not I feel that person will fight for what is best for me. I don’t care if you are part of the ’standing in the back dressed stupidly and looking stupid party’ if you are speaking up for me and I think you will fight for me you will get my vote and I hate that people think that voting for a 3rd party is a ’throwaway’ vote. If more people voted for who they thought was the candidate with the best platform I think we would have a viable 3rd party, and I think that this election cycle is making people see that that might just be an option. If (and hopefully when) Hillary gets in office you can be damn sure she will do things I won’t like and that I will be speaking out against them.

happily immune to all religious indoctrination

I could not agree more.

the mighty corrente building lights up the minute you hit the publish button. plase stop by more often and bring Leah and xan with you.

I disagree with the ’Party’ elite. I want Hillary and if they won’t let that happen, then it’s a ’no’ vote for me.

voted for the candidate, no no matter the party. Is that wrong? Some think it is, no matter that these other candidates espoused and have a record of the things I believe in.

Of what I refer to when I say that it’s time for everyone to take their feet off of the accelerator for one second. The point I take away from this, CD states right off the bat:

Listen to what people say, and not what you think or want to hear. Listen to those who present facts, instead of believing in fantasy and fiction that makes you feel fuzzy inside. Hear the voices of those who aren’t like you, who belong to groups and have “identities” different than your own.

This is wisdom best repeated and practiced ad infinitum. I would take it one step further and add that “facts” are often determined by exposure to whatever narrative and process that those you encounter are exposed to - and never assume that the information you have at hand is going to be the same as theirs and vice-versa.

But the whole idea is to keep the lines of communication open. Because, in the majority of cases, even if the people you talk to don’t agree with you; if your points are based on verifiable facts or experiences that others can relate to, many of those people will still want to talk with you.

I close with a hat tip. Thanks for keeping things in perspective, Chicago Dyke.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The enemy of my enemy is STILL my enemy. Those who forget this end up being Vulture scraps.

The other reason I’m pissed is because no matter how fucking nice I am, how often I reign in the cursing, sex talk, or other ’coarse’ kinds of discourse, some people still can’t seem to understand: I am my own woman, my own independent person. I think for myself. I don’t let other people tell me what to think. I’m not alone; many in the blogosphere, many less popular or well known but still pretty bright people, are also thus. Try it some time, instead of letting a “liberal hero” on teevee tell you for whom you should vote, and what should make you mad.

Why do you care if someone is cursing when you try to express yourself? There will always be crude and nasty comments, if you are disturbed by them, just write books.

I think that the conversation vs. rally model is insufficient to explain what is going on. Essentially, even Corrente has one central theme and if you drop the name of the poster and commenters, it looks and sound somewhat as a rally. (I know Lambert paints and gardens; me too.)

I have to guess why Paul uses Nuremberg rally instead of just rally. For me Nuremberg is where the Nazi movement started and although I think the worst about Obama’s movement, I wouldn’t go there (yet).

Listening is rare. Most people haven’t mastered that skill. Listening also requires clear expression of what other are supposed to listen to. Only few mastered the skill of writing clear yet complex and concise statements. Way more common are concise and clear simple ideas; and there is nothing wrong with that.

For a blog to be a fertile ground for a serious platform for exchange of independent thinking, it has to be focused, cut down on the number of posts and have, mainly, austere content. Mind you, I am all for humor and fun, but against glee and ridicule. That is, you can say that Axelrod is Obama’s brain, but make sure that you justify it. An excellent example for such a blog is Angelachel. The posts are dead serious, well written and even better thought out. Comments are respectful and decent.

Keeps me from slitting my wrists.

The mix of humor and seriousness here is very attractive.

Two problems I see with the hubs — one is overload. Who can read through hundreds of comments? Who has time? The other, as CD points out, is vitriole. I don’t have to volunteer to take abuse. I can click my mouse.

Like Goldylocks, I find Correntewire just right.

put it off until later, “I just don’t want to think about that now,” Scarlett O’Haras.

The rest of that quote is “after all, tomorrow is another day.” Scarlett was a never say die, get things done, independent woman who didn’t let other people tell her how to think. She’s the only fictional character I ever rise to defend and I do it every single time. Probably b/c she’s so misunderstood and often maligned. I love her. I wish I were more like her. We all need someone like her in our corner.

“don’t want to think about it” posterchild for me—her “beautiful mind”, you know.

“”Why should we hear about body bags and deaths,” Barbara Bush said on ABC’s “Good Morning America” on March 18, 2003. “Oh, I mean, it’s not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?”” — http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0429…

For the very reason that the resident trolls cannot post in this thread because of your opening paragraph. I think it would be like the red pill in the Matrix if they read the beginning of your post.

I only wish Edwards stuck to his principals. I’m not sure what he gets out of endorsing Obama and why wait until now if Obama actually will help the poor or do even 1% of what Edwards stands for.

I’m still dreaming of a convention melt down and the Edwards delegates somehow magically convert everyone. But I guess Edwards is no longer interested in having a platform at the convention.

seriously, i totally agree with you; she’s very misunderstood as a character and i’m sorry i wasn’t clear. i was using the misunderstanding-version of scarlett to make that point, not the woman i take her to be from my reading of the text. i’ve defended that book here many times, i take a lot of shit from my nonwhite friends for doing so, but to me, she is one of the Great American Characters of fiction, and a true heroine.

i don’t forget: Scarlett hated war, war talk, penis-measuring boy-men, and the destruction of all that was good and beautiful and peaceful, all in the name of rhetoric and chest puffing and because some people couldn’t learn to compromise, and get over themselves. yes, GWTW is a totally incorrect, fictional fantasy version of antebellum southern society, racist, conservative, revisionist, etc. but as far as independent, hard headed, brutally critical tigress women go: Scarlett will always be an inspiration to me.