Violet at Reclusive Leftist starts
"pulling together some of our thoughts about the new feminism we’re building, what I think of as the Fourth Wave." Very interesting list -- and great comments/discussion.
This comment especially struck me: "Women need, desperately, cultural permission to be selfish, to put ourselves first without apology and without trying to spin it as good for other, more important people, too. Because even though I do believe feminism is good for the whole Human community, it really wouldn’t matter if it weren’t. Women have a right to demand what’s good for us."
The conflict between our own self-interest and our own needs -- and larger/more powerful/dominant structures, and cultural and social narratives and demands -- and how that determines and often restricts or even denies our options and actions.
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When women flourish, communities and nations flourish
Better said by Hillary:
One thing I've noticed over the last couple years is the powerful social narratives that are opposed to women as full and equal partners. How do we overcome these seemingly insurmountable social constructs?
"so heavily dependent on women’s work to function"
this comment went into it, i thought and it's something rarely discussed -- "... Capitalism has a long history of dependence on free labor or underpaid labor. Women often work for nothing more than room and board, make a significant contribution to the common good, and get their social security docked (or no social security at all) in thanks for their services.
Patriarchy owes a huge debt to women — a debt it has no interest in acknowledging. Patriarchal society does not want to admit it is so heavily dependent on women’s work to function. It is one of the reasons it prefers to keep us and our work invisible.
There needs to be some part of feminism which works to make sure that women’s work is valued, in much the same way that feminism works to make sure that women are valued doing “men’s work.”
..." -- http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2008/11/...
it's so true--i think Europe has done a few things to help with that (mostly because of not enough population growth tho) --paying for children, and extensive social services, and paid leave, etc--the state devotes more resources and money--and it's not just a husband's responsibility or the couple's alone. Not that it's perfect, but it fundamentally establishes that the society and government play a role and have a responsibility, and value at least part of what used to be wholly private and dependent on a man's earning power.
i think it's not insurmountable--but who even recognizes that without women doing all sorts of things for free, men would never be free to do what they do? i guess education is needed first?
Education? How about a board with a nail in it?
We can call it, "The School Board."
Kidding.
How much more education do we need? I know this is crap and say so. You know this is crap and you say so. Then again, amberglow, you are above average in every way. Men should be telling men to knock it off, unrelentingly. You do it. G does it. Lambert does it. I know all sorts of guys who speak out for what's right because it's the right thing to do and this happens to be the right thing to do. You don't treat women like crap because you don't treat people like crap.
We just need more of ya, is all. I say it isn't education because we've done all the Free To Be You and Me stuff. I think you fellows need to get in the faces of your brothers a lot more and not because I can't stand up for myself. But if men make it abdundantly clear that this garbage isn't to be tolerated by other men, then we may actually get some positive behavioral changes.
Or maybe straight women need to stop having sex with guys who are jerks. "Lysistrata" American style. Create a whole new definition of girls gone wild.
That'll learn 'em.
Huh. Maybe it is education after all.
telling is not nearly enough--
Olbermann just got a fat new contract -- they get rewarded, so we have to make it hurt -- the price has to be too high for them to keep doing this shit -- we've made the price too high for racism to be spewed like sexist shit. and we've done it and are still doing it for other groups too --
it's time to hit their wallets--telling MSNBC was obviously not at all enough, for just one example.
even now, some business/corporate supporters of Prop 8 are paying for their hateful actions (and some have now donated more to fight it than they did to push it)--all because of money--the loss of it.
money always speaks louder than words in this society. always.
A whack with the money stick
for organizations like MSNBC---agree. But getting in people's faces, one on one, about this shit is effective. It's also exhausting.
And frankly, it's been disheartening to see and hear so much misogyny from people I thought were comrades, or at least fellow travelers. I've been stabbed in the back before, but damn, some of my "comrades" came right up and stabbed me right in the front, without even blinking. And they just keep doing it.
But enough of my sob story. Agree that financial weaponry is called for with organizations. I'm not a big fan of the sternly worded letter, just as I'm not a fan of "sending a message." Enough with the damn message sending, how about we actually do something for a change?
I stopped watching MSNBC a long time ago but a quick overview of their advertisers would give us a place to start, eh? We can start with advertisers/sponsors of COUNTDOWN and work from there.
What do you say?
totally!
i'll watch and make a list starting monday--and get contact info for them too.
you do, too. then we'll post -- and spread the word.
Great idea, please do
And try, if you can, for local addresses as well -- not just the big guys.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
just remembered now--
i'll start tom'w night...
boycotting fools like Olbermann might help too--
just appalling --
Women They Love to Hate
-- http://anglachelg.blogspot.com/2008/11/w...
"... A few months ago, Olbermann apologized for picturing Hillary Clinton getting beaten up by a bunch of goons behind locked doors. This week, he was picturing Sarah Palin getting cut up into pieces.
...
It’s always surprising to see the way such fellows discuss the women they hate. They seem to find it hard to do so without picturing violence or turning to overt, gender-based derision. ..."
Olbermann is now seen as a moral force
For his stand against homophobia--after proposition 8 passed.
And then within days, he pushed--yet again--to incite murderous misogyny against a public woman. My God. I keep trying to compare this to recent history and the best match I could find was how the American press normalized intense racism towards blacks during the '20s, you know, when lynching was a public event to share with the family. Honestly now. That's where we're at.
Forty years ago the major papers rightly called out the racism inherent in the attack on the Birmingham Church that killed four little black girls. Just two years ago, no one in the major papers reported that misogyny caused the violent massacre of those Amish girls. Hell, they never even mentioned misogyny. No, it was reported as some "school" shooting and the bigot was written off as just a "crazy." Just a crazy who happens to systematically target one gender and prepared intensely to rape each of these children before slaughtering them. That's how bad it is today. Wait no, it's worse. Back then we didn't mock victims of hate crimes. Today we do (see: "Missing White Woman Syndrome," where you'll see bloggers regularly ridicule yet another victim and regard the reporting of these stories as silly, trivial shit; mind you, they never would do that with news stories of gay bashing, which universally depicts white men being targeted). Let's face it: anti-female violence, gender-based hate crimes are widely seen as either righteous or entertainment. Hence, the public spectacle of it all.
I remember what my sister always told me: as a Latina she faced casual discrimination, but as a woman she faced the casual threat of hate crimes (e.g., murder, death). She has to alter her entire day around the threat of a misogynist violently attacking her. I can't even imagine doing that with regards to racist violence. I never think about it.
targeting the public view/media --
it's easy/painless, and a good start that has real societal impact beyond the stations targeted--
over and over MSNBC has been horrendous in regard to women--they need to pay for that--or rather, lose money and viewers because of it. They--and their advertisers -- need to be targeted.
The power of the purse (bad pun, i know) is easily wielded--and it works.
if there's no price to be paid for this shit, they just keep doing it--and escalating it.