"Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."
"I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate," Biden said to Emerald City supporters, mentioning the Middle East and Russia as possibilities. "And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right."
Don't question Obama. Focus your energy on the demonization of John McCain and Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton or Somerby or Lambert--heck, even me if you feel so inclined, but throw in some condescension about my age, ego or intellect compared to yours, that works nicely--anyone who is warning of red flags.
At some point, if Obama wins, he's going to have to govern and he won't have the Hillary/McCain/Palin/Dominionist bogeyman to fend of criticisms. It seems like Biden is hinting at their possible governing strategy: Even if you think we're wrong, we need you to use your influence to convince people we are right. It's working so brilliantly now, why change?
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This blind adoration reminds me of W
From "W" to "O".
Patriotism and Christianity was Bush's shield from any criticism whatsoever. For Barack it's "He's Barack, just trust him." Why does he get away with this? All of us that don't buy into his messiah-ness are called racists. The candidate and his supporters are so hypocritical it's become pitiful. How will he be challenged or kept in check?
The opposition is completely demonized. The hatred against McCain/Palin and their supporters is alarming. Did you hear about the car with a McCain sticker had KKK scratched on it and was set on fire?
In my family neighborhood in San Francisco, a brand new audi station wagon had a gigantic sign across the back that said "Sarah Palin scares me more than Osama Bin Laden". There are art student posters glued all over the Mission district that have Sarah Palin with fangs and blood dripping off of them.
I have no idea how this will play itself out. The Obama frenzy is freaky. If we're not allowed to question and challenge Obama, I do fear a Bush 2.0
"If we have to have a dictator, who better than Obama"
- progressive blog commentator
Well that just proves it
Russia and Middle East are just racist*! They never even dreamed of generating a crisis when we elected the last white guy. Oh, wait..
*Sarcasm
well, she does, actually, scoutt, 'cause Palin is HERE
and there's no real (credible, as opposed to Bush-engineered) evidence that bin Laden's even alive anymore.
You know, when somebody as utterly dense as Christopher Hitchens finally gets a clue, the Republicans are in deep trouble.
Anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear had to feel sorry for the old lion on his last outing and wish that he could be taken somewhere soothing and restful before the night was out. The train-wreck sentences, the whistlings in the pipes, the alarming and bewildered handhold phrases—"My friends"—to get him through the next 10 seconds. I haven't felt such pity for anyone since the late Adm. James Stockdale humiliated himself as Ross Perot's running mate. And I am sorry to have to say it, but Stockdale had also distinguished himself in America's most disastrous and shameful war, and it didn't qualify him then and it doesn't qualify McCain now.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Sheesh, scoutt
A little over the top! [deleted] Chill!
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
How should I have responded to that?
Honestly, agreeing that she is worse that Osama?
Is that something to joke about? Does a snappy retort
do it? When are we allowed to get angry?
Why is it over the top to be disgusted by such a comment?
It's cool to throw out that kind of statement? Just part of
an open discussion?
I'll stay off the site for a while if outrageous comments like
that are allowed. I'm not cynical enough for that garbage.
"If we have to have a dictator, who better than Obama"
- progressive blog commentator
Seriously, if Sarah Palin guaranteed that electing her ticket...
... meant an international crisis would be created as a result (and it could only be solved by blindly trusting that ticket), we'd be hearing 24/7 that it was the dumbest thing ever said.
Without a doubt.
Vastleft: Electing her ticket GUARANTEES crisis
at home and abroad. We've had 8 years of examples of the chicanery, venality and general incompetence of the GOP in the White House.
Another four -- particularly if Palin 'ascends' somehow -- is four more than I want to endure.
I'm ready to END the "Contract on America."
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Me too...
... except I have the feeling that the Contract on America has a self-renewal clause, and, like the mortgages, it's been sliced and diced and sold to somebody else...
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
The question is...
... why isn't Obama ready to end the Contract on America?
Why, in a year when the GOP/conservative brand is utterly in tatters is he constantly fellating Ronald Reagan and neglecting and attacking the Democratic/liberal brand?
Biden, translated
More shocks.
Quelle surprise!
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Shift focus from Obama and Biden to "McPalin"
A new rule for the FKD Party: never answer criticisms of the Party or Obama/Biden, change the subject to "McPalin".
Fear is a helluva drug!
Only tyrants rig elections.
Yeah, it's a helluva drug, GQMartinez.
Fear can make a huge difference in your life.
It can make you turn your back on issues.
It can make you turn your back on history.
It can make you turn your back on deceit.
It can make you embrace illogic.
It can make you stand up for irrationality.
It's stronger than heroin, harder to kick than nicotine, and apparently it's faster-acting than crack.
But it has some damn serious side effects, too.
1 John 4:18
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Demonstrating the rule
I don't understand your point, really. Am I being accused of GOP apologizing? Of being a racist? Of being an apologist for impeachment?
Several here, myself included, have been trying to prevent the Dems from being taken over by the GOP or the Village
, but our concerns are glossed over by changing the subject to the GOP's evilness.
Only tyrants rig elections.
Which I don't see the logic of in the least
Agreeing with you here, gq.
Apparently, all you need to do is change the jersey from R to D? (I especially like the link to Epic -- given the Democrat's epic sellout on FISA [cough] Reform.)
It's hardly "irrational" to look at Biden's words and try to intepret them, eh?
Over time, all this will shake out. It's the Age of the Anti-Cassandra!
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
To me, it looks as if fear is driving the
support for McCain/Palin -- it doesn't feel like "pushback."
It feels like "never done that before, can't be a good idea."
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Perhaps...
... and, if so, I'm not sure what that has to do with gq's post, or my comments.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Never done what?
Capitulate to the GOP and accept it with open arms? Elect a black man? What isn't a good idea?
If you weren't so turned off by my age or whatever it is, you may have read the comments where I support "none of the above", not McCain/Palin. Are you equating criticism of Obama as support for McCain/Palin along the lines of "you're either with us or with the terrorists"?
NOTE: I took your comment as referring to me and my projected support of McCain/Palin. If not, then I'm curious as to who you are talking about.
Only tyrants rig elections.
Well, you crystallized my reaction, gqmartinez
and by the way, accusing "certain apologists" here of capitulating to the GOP wasn't my invention.
But what I'm saying is there is a strong sense, to me, not merely with your antipathy to the Democratic ticket, but a kind of clique of "Dems who hate Dems" ranting about how "Robbing Hillary Wasn't Enough, Now They're Mistreating Sarah!" and similar conclusions upon which to base what seem to me to be irrational arguments.
What the basis is I can't say. I can guess; I can guess that it's an uneasiness about what Obama will do, or a dissatisfaction with how Obama got the nomination (like I don't have my own beefs with this)or I can guess that eight years of "Be scareder, damn it!" has, to some degree, worked. But I can't be sure any of those guesses is entirely right, or what combination of them adds up to the real reason so many people oppose Obama.
It's like Obama is the new Bill Clinton, and some Democrats have gone all VRWC
on him.
Me, I can't figure it out. But seriously, it's Obama and Biden ... or what?
Stay home? Okay. Are there no state, county, local races where your vote could help a Democrat overcome a Republican? Go and vote for them, at least!
Vote McKinney? Sure. What do you do in the down ticket races where her party doesn't have a candidate (or the candidate is a flake -- we have a Green party candidate here in Lubbock who's only Green because he's failed to make the ballot as a Libertarian, which is what he was in the last four elections)?
Vote for McCain / Palin?
My visceral reaction to that is, "What color is the sky on your planet?"
But your mileage may vary.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Do you read my entire posts, Sarah?
Because there is a very constant theme that goes along with my concept of Party Invariance and the "sanctity of the process". For example, this post, on the whole "kill him" stuff, I had this to say:
From my post on the debate I say this:
On the whole domionist ties I conclude with this:
On a different post of the same topic I say this:
Go on, examine what I write about. I stand by everything so far. I've been rather consistent on my focus on two things: process and fighting the idea of making GOP tactics and policies Party Invariant. I include the disclaimer in most posts to make it clear my intention. I realize I sometimes sound like a broken record, but some people still seem to ignore what I say and paint it as an anti-Obama crusade. I've stated on more than one occasion that these are concerns that do not depend on candidate X or candidate Y.
Only tyrants rig elections.
I am never going to defend Palin,
because she's a republican, and I've never endorsed repub policies. The last eight years cemented that attitude.
But what's being done to her is no different than what was done to Clinton or Digby or lots of other women.
I won't be a party to that. I'm sorry that any woman fails to get it.
pie, it's not because she's female -- it's because she's
complicit in playing along with a Republican ploy to get people to say exactly what you just said.
Sure, she's female.
She's got kids.
She's married.
She's got a special-needs child, under a year old.
She's got a teen daughter pregnant out of wedlock.
So? Nothing there to fault. Some things that her response to could prove telling, character-wise, over time, but on balance that's not so very different than a lot of women, some of them admirable (cf Texas governor Ann Richards, against whom the smears included 'she's a lesbian' during Rove's first 'big' campaign for W).
She's John McCain's running mate.
She's anti-choice.
She's John McCain's running mate.
She's demonstrably abused her office in service of personal vendettas.
She's John McCain's running mate.
She's so green Obama has more experience in governance.
She's John McCain's running mate.Her record on the environment is awful.
She's John McCain's running mate.
Her "energy expertise" is a sham.
And she's John McCain's running mate.
John Sidney McCain III, should he win, will be the oldest President ever sworn in.
Younger men were incapacitated during their terms.
I've lifted these examples from wikipedia:
Other stuff can happen too, and has -- most recently to GOP presidents, mostly.
For instance, Ronald Reagan didn't just get shot, which required a 12-day hospital stay during which he was never considered incapacitated for purposes of Presidential succession, he had surgery. In fact, during his hospital stay following surgery on his colon, the first example of the "acting President" occurred. See wikipedia again:
So yeah.
I'd be just as adamant that Todd Palin, or Mitt Romney, was unfit to step up for McCain.
It's not about the female part. Heck, there are women in the Democratic party (Brazile, for one!) I could NEVER support as VP, let alone President. Similarly, there are women I'd be DELIGHTED to vote for (Hillary, Elizabeth Edwards).
It's about the REPUBLICAN part in general, and more specifically it's about the "conservative, Christian" GOP base and their fervid delight with her.
I hope I have made my stand on this issue clear. The plumbing isn't the thing that concerns me; it's the mentality.
1 John 4:18
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Whatevah.
I don't pay attention or believe most of what I read about her. It's ridiculous. I'm not voting for her anyway.
Now Obama definitely has his problems, afaic, and always has. I'm more concerned that he'll take my party somewhere I don't want it to go.
There is no choice I can make this time. As someone said above, I regret I can't vote for the man, but he was the last person I would have wanted, because he was the least experienced one of the lot. Biden's a dolt and less acceptable than he was before.
*sigh*
Interesting...
Sarah, you write:
Can you clarify whether honest concern for the direction Obama will take the country and party figured on the list of options that you considered?
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Depends, I guess, on your definition of "honest concern"
as in my own case I can't say I'm utterly confident he'll always do the right thing. I had that naivete knocked out of me when LBJ never wrote me back (the faith of a third-grader is a horrible thing to waste).
But what I finally did conclude is that I'd rather take a chance on Obama than face more of the same, without a doubt except in cases where stuff got worse faster, with McCain.
Do I have links for that? No. It's my opinion/conviction.
And I am not automatically assuming, as has been implied if not openly suggested, that those who doubt Obama doubt him solely because he's black. Hell, I remember when the big knock on Obama was that he wasn't really black enough.
From my perspective his blackness, or the degree thereof, is not nearly so worrisome as just what a greenhorn he is, in terms of governance.
But he's got more experience with first-do-no-harm than Palin, and I have less faith in McCain's survivability than I do in Obama's.
I'm not a mathematician; but my gut tells me the odds of a forty-something guy making it through the next eight years are better than the odds of a seventy-something guy making it through the next eight years, even if you don't factor in stresses, strains, and bad habits or previous trauma.
(Which really ought to put the kibosh on the notion that I'm expecting him to be assassinated, but since I was fool enough in a comment last week to write that it could happen, FSM forbid, and shouldn't we let him get elected and find out what he'll do before we start arguing about how he'll govern, clearly I'm a conspiracy-theorist afraid of the impossible.)
Do I have my doubts about Obama? Well, yeah!
I have less doubt about how McCain would govern, and a marginally more troublesome suspicion McCain's health might give us Palin, though, and I find those far less palatable prospects.
So yeah, now I've officially invoked the "definition of is" too. Shoot me, I guess.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Is the answer to my question in the subject line?
If so, according to your own definition, am I dishonest?
I understand your reasoning; I just don't agree with it. That's something entirely different from being honest. I just can't figure out what you would have t "guess" at my views, and my reasoning; after all, I've posted on them frequently enough, and thought I was expressing them clearly enough so that nobody would have to "guess" why I held them.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Maybe we need more cowbell, Lambert
'cause I don't remember the two of us ever having one of those "racist" or "sexist" confrontations.
You've been clear about what your objections to Obama are.
Even when you changed your tagline (the next-to-last time).
I don't have that luxury with everybody else who posts here.
Does that help in any way? Not only don't I have the same history with them I have with you, I don't have a desire to sort through pages of posts or comments to determine what drives their viewpoint.
Does that clear anything up at all?
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Just checking
The horse race has definitely jumped the fucking shark. I'm so tired of it. And it's not going to get better. If anything, it's going to get worse, as all the new converts seek to demonstrate their zeal.
So, why not make the default assumption that the rest have come to their convictions in the same way I have?
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
I get it: I'm not worthy of your time
I'll keep that in mind as you repeatedly construe what I say to whatever you want it to be and make judgments without determining what "drives my viewpoint". I guess now I know how seriously you think about my arguments and know why they are distorted. It's apparently not deliberate, it's something else. Check. I get it.
Only tyrants rig elections.
Going to war in Pakistan
will have some damn serious side effects too.
Maybe you should start to fear a little too-instead of writing souped-up prose.
So Joe's job
is to generate the snow, eh? Snow job Joe.
Embarrassing. Just embarrassing.
Why don't they all just admit they don't have a clue what concerns many of us? Crisis? WTF
do you call eight years of Bush?
Joe hasn't noticed the multiple ongoing crises?
We're in two wars and an economic meltdown. Joe doesn't think that is enough to test Obama's mettle? Sorry Joe, dissent will not be stifled, not from, well, Day One. He better be ready.
Of course, dissent will be stifled
Why else is this discussion only happening on a C-list blog?
Well, there could be several reasons
Of course, we could be bitter, paranoid holdouts. I don't think that's it, since I can see writers like Newberry, Stoller, Anglachel, and Silber pretty much in the same ballpark on the level of trust appropriate to our situation -- and they've all been good analysts in the past. Good company to be in, and last I checked, I hadn't seen fake videos from any of 'em.
Another theory is that we're traitors, anxious to tear down the Democrat Party (as if they hadn't done it to themselves already). But see above.
And another theory is that we're racists. That's true, of course, but what can you do?
I think it's a bandwagon effect. At some point, the wheels will fall off, as they always do. At that point, of course, the Cassandras will be recognized, applauded, and welcomed back with open arms. Not.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Wait a minute...
This isn't the A-List?
Sarah Palin scares me more than Osama Bin Laden
Just for the record.
So does John McCain and so have George Bush and Dick Cheney and the rest of the VRWC
. Those who would destroy from within are always more dangerous than those who attack from without.
And, VL, both Palin and McCain have been promising multiple international crises as an integral part of their campaign - not generated by America's international enemies but by their own foreign policy stance. My question is: Why aren't you more excited about that prospect? Why doesn't that outrage you? Why aren't you writing essays about how crazy and anti-American and anti-freedom the McCain-Palin ticket is?
Oh, wait, I forgot; there are other people who will be taking care of the horserace, no need here to discuss how dangerous the VRWC
is, that's covered. The mission here is to paint Obama/Biden and the Democratic Party as equivalent in every respect to the VRWC
and the Republican Party, that's the ticket, and then...well, then.... Hmm. What, then, exactly?
Ah well, never mind; no need to try and look ahead when there's so much fun to be had right now. Tear down the Democratic Party so as to create a government that cannot govern, what could be more immediately desirable than that? Encourage the voices of those who call for more years of Republican presidency, join arms and march in lockstep with RedState and Limbaugh, there's some real bipartisanship for you. Support formation of a crippled government because gridlock and stasis certainly couldn't work out in favor of the established order, and then sit back and enjoy the carnage while those silly other people try to figure out how to fix the mess. There'll be some big laughs to be had from that foolishness!
Heckofaplan. Child's play, actually.
Thank you for commenting,
Thank you for commenting, bringiton. Your comment is important to me. Please do not hesitate to comment again.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
I will.
L: Your comment is important to me.
As your comment is important to me; a nice bit of symmetry there.
It waren't me what decided to tear down the Democratic Party
The formerly hated, now heroic, party elite decided to burn the damn thing down. And PB1.0 gave 'em the kindling.
Formerly hated by whom?
Waren't me who hated on Pelosi and Dean and Reid, nor are they heroes to me - now or ever.
The tactical moves this year, building on Dean's work leading to the advances in 2006, have strengthened the Democratic Party by leaps and bounds; of that there can be little question.
Better organization, far more sophisticated and hugely broader-based fundraising, cleaner and more astute advertising, improved selection of electable down-ticket candidates, all of which have created a revived Party poised to pick up not just the presidency but quite possibly control of the Senate agenda and maybe even enough new Democratic House members to form a majority without kissing BlueDog butt.
The Democratic Party is far stronger now than I have seen it since LBJ's election, and the propects for electing more Progressive officeholders and forcefully advancing a Progressive agenda are nearer to hand than at any time since the mid-60's came to an end.
Whether that's a good or a bad thing can certainly be open to debate, as well as how it was achieved, but the Democratic Party has hardly been destroyed at the hands of the leadership. As a Progressive, I am more encouraged now by the power of the Democratic Party and what we will be able to do with it than at any time in the last 40 years.
You're onto something. I've been disappointed and
disgusted and annoyed with Pelosi and Reed, but I've never really hated them.
Yes, I have been extremely angry that the let, or helped, some things happen since 2006; but both have also had moments in which they made me proud (okay, Dean and Reed way more than Pelosi, but still).
Dean disappointed me in not stopping the haka against Hillary; but I suspect he's got to dance with them that brung him, as any pol must lest the game of musical chairs exile him to the outer darkness on a moment's notice.
I think we have to wait until 11-5-08 to see if the Party really is stronger, but it's certainly more visible. If it can be induced to be less kowtowing, so much the better!
1 John 4:18
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
I think I'm gonna have to put "hate" in the spam filter
Sarah, I don't wake up in the morning thinking "the first thing I'm gonna do is write mean things on the Internets about Nancy 'They are advocates; we are leaders' Pelosi. Or Harry Reid.
It's just that with Reid + Pelosi + Obama passing FISA [cough] reform, and Bush + Reid + Pelosi + Obama + Paulson passing the trillion dollar giveaway to the bankers, I have very little confidence that they will represent my values or interests.
It has nothing to do with hate -- though, apparently, that will get repeated over and over again -- as it did on Kos.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Go ahead: I figure you can be mad as hell at
stupid stuff people do without hating the people doing it.
Be mad at them? Sure.
Despise what they've done? Absolutely.
Want to introduce them to the clue-by-six they apparently can't see when they trip over it, and explain why what they did was truly outstandingly stupid? You bet.
Have a close enough personal relationship to hate 'em? Eh.
I'm reluctant to do that -- Pelosi would write me off as riffraff, and Reid would think I'm overweight. Why give 'em the satisfaction?
Don't think of it as 'repeated over and over again like at KoS' -- think of it as an argument against handing out gasoline and matches in an effort to put out the fire.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Huh?
So far as I'm concerned, the people with matches and gasoline passed FISA. What are you saying? And if you don't hate them, and I don't hate them, why bring it up at all? Who's doing the hating?
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
No, see, from my POV FISA wasn't the first fire
although certainly it's one of the most damaging.
The first fire was CBS backtracking the Florida call after showing the temper tantrum ON THE AIR that would eventually bring us the odious Bush V. Gore decision in the USSC.
That fire lit eight years of uncontrollable conflagrations.
Unfortunately, FISA isn't the most heinous result. I'm not even sure yet the bailout's going to turn out to be the most heinous result. Bush still has until January 20 to do something else to harm the country. I'm sure he hasn't quit thinking about what, yet.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
If the "something else to harm the country" wasn't the bailout..
... it will be the November international conference on finance, where doubtless a few more extra-constitutional nails will be driven into our coffins.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Well...
The tactical moves this year, building on Dean’s work leading to the advances in 2006, have strengthened the Democratic Party by leaps and bounds; of that there can be little question.
Strenghtened them in what way?
We'll see.
Couldn't agree more
With this:
Of course who is trying to destroy what is where we may disagree. For instance, it is pretty clear to me what people like Donna Brazille seem most effective at destroying (hint, it wasn't GWB or the Republicans). Likewise I think it is pretty instructive if you look at former Republicans, like Kos, Aravosis, Sullivan, etc., I think they also realized it is easier to destroy from within. They now have exactly the man they want, but we aren't supposed to worry about that, the tough boys like BIO will protect us "babes in the woods".
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Around these parts we call cucumber slices circle bites
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I'm not such a bad guy once you get to know me.
I don't remember hearing and seeing
these ridiculous setups/excuses when Clinton was president. There were dems, even congressmen, who didn't think it necessary to support him or his agenda. Quite the opposite, actually.
That was different, I guess. Now we must all bow down and support the Democratic Party just because...um, it's really catering to our needs and listening to our concerns. Yeah, that's it.
Hilarious.
And how did that lack of Democrat's support work out
for Progressive interests?
Was blocking UHC by the Democratic congress a real triumph of standing up to Clinton? Was the clear message from BlueDog Democrats in congress that equal rights and respect for homosexuals would not be tolerated a big advance for America? Was the conservative side of the Democratic caucus abandoning the Clintons to the Starr vendetta and failing stand up for Bill during the impeachment process a great benefit to anyone, in any way?
If you were going to be president, wouldn't you ask your supporters to stand by you? How do you expect to get elected without unity of support? How can you possibly govern effectively without it? Do you really insist that the random flail of Progressives over the past 40 years has been successful? At anything? Or have you become so invested in conflict that it is simply the prospect of collegiality that frightens you?
I'm a union man, through and through. I still have my Teamsters and Wobblie cards, and while I didn't always agree with or approve of the decisions by leadership and certainly not of every individual leader I still honored every strike; to this day I won't cross a union picket line unless it is a matter of life-or-death. There are benefits to solidarity that can't be won by fragmentation.
BIO,
there will be no solidarity unless Obama's agenda pleases republicans and Blue Dogs, who might as well be republicans. But then, they won't please me.
Solidarity. Progressive policies will be DOA, I'm afraid.
I'd love to be wrong. I mean that, because I'd hate to see this country continue on this path. There's enough hopelessness and not enough guidance or education or help for those who need it. Healthcare is a huge issue. All I see is cowardice and greed. And religion, which continues to muddy the very clear waters.
We're on our own. That seems to be the message being sent by both parties to John Q. Public.
If we have enough money to spend on defense and Wall Street, we can do a better job maintaining infrastructure, providing basic services and healthcare, and life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Some of us are there. Some need help. Some are beyond it.
But we can do more. I'm waiting.