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They just can't help themselves, can they?


[Welcome, Power of Narrative readers!]

Here's the very first comment from The Obama 527 Formerly Known As Daily Kos on McCain picking Sarah Palin for VP:


It's a two-fer! Sexist and ageist! Well done. Here's the sixth comment:


Hey, come on! Where's your sense of humor?

NOTE As BTD writes:

Tim Kaine, who has exactly the same experience as Palin, was treated by the Media and the Dems as a serious and acceptable potential pick, it opens up charges of a double standard.

Not just "charges," I would think.

UPDATE I've got to assume that the Obama campaign is tech savvy, so you'd think they'd take Markos aside and mention that reining in the asshole subset of Obama supporters on his site might be a really good idea. (Kos obviously has the technical and administrative capability to get that done, as he showed by purging Hillary supporters from his site.)

So why don't they?

The only explanation I can think of is that both Kos and the Obama campaign are happy with the outcomes, and so have no intention of reining anyone in. Well, at least it's good to know what's in store when the Obama Movement gets institutionalized and becomes a permanent part of the political landscape. Possibly Kos feels that sexism reinforces his brand in his target market?

UPDATE Lest I be accused of cherry-picking comments, Kos is a community site; the comment ratings are there exactly to reinforce Kos community norms. The screen dump for the first comment shows a rating of 16+; the uprate count is now 95+. The sixth comment is now uprated at 24+.

Sexism is a community norm at Kos.


No votes yet


BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

I think I'll take up heavy drinking immediately.

BTW, my boyfriend is predicting that we're going to hear an unending list of "mate" jokes. Because you know, that's women's role in politics. It's not just Republicans who think that.

Submitted by lambert on

My mistrust for the parties on Social Security has different reasons:

1. The Rs just suck on policy.

2. The Ds are going to use age-ism in the general just like they used misogyny in the primary. And just as the Ds ended up devaluing women in the primary -- no, a speech and a convention don't undo that; "Honey, I've changed!" -- so they will end up devaluing older people in the general. And that can only have the effect of undermining Social Security as well.

So, on this issue, if things play out as I predict they will, it really is a choice between horseshit and bullshit.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

old91A10's picture
Submitted by old91A10 on

I may retract my very recent declaration "McCain Biden 08" and go with "McCain Palin 08."

Still reading on Sarah Palin. Any 'big dirt' or negatives yet?
Repro rights of concern to me, but a blue House and Senate should cancel that out (and, if they can't, it will be further evidence that they are as worthless as their anointed sock puppet).

Looks like a very wise move by McCain.
ZerObama's veep announcement bump turned into a slump.
This move might do the same to the expected convention bump.

I've noticed a slight drift in tone by some PUMA sites and enthusiasts -- spent hours yesterday rechecking my intuition. I've noticed occasional commentary that some attacks on Obama and the DNC are now thought to be passe or of not resonating enough, even though they are based on reality. This is not the time to back off. Save the internecine war for later. The 'Taylor Marsh model' doesn't work.

I know that it is a terrible feeling to sit out a party that you've waited eight years for. But, we were dis-invited, so hang tough. Right now, every miscreant in the DNC is thinking that they helped 'bitch slap'** the clintons. These are not the people I want to rub elbows with.

[** 'bitch slap': two words that I have never spoken or typed consecutively, and firmly believe should not be in our jargon -- here, I am referring to what I believe the creeps are thinking or saying -- you've heard it too, haven't you?]

Just so no one thinks I am a Republican troll or a Progressive with hurt feelings: 'clincher ... FISA vote ... Fourth Amendment' (big and bigger lists with links will be provided upon request).

Submitted by lambert on

Truthy is not.

For example, Cannonfire did good work by cleaning up that COLB nonsense.

Truthiness rots everything.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

old91A10's picture
Submitted by old91A10 on

I very much appreciate the cleaning up of the 'COLB issue' and other things -- and, wish I had taken the time to express that as it unfolded. There were some snags that can be expected in the high latency of cross-talk, but things seem to have gone well compared to what has happened in other non-MSM-blocs.

My comment was not directed at a particular site or issue -- it was more about a feeling in the air. This wasn't the first site where I pasted it.

(bouncing back and forth on other things, as usual -- sorry for delays in responses and my opting to paste rather than deliberating and tailoring text for a particular context or site -- it is either that, or I would have to abandon a considerable amount of reading and all personal keyboard(s) time -- now back to making lunch, seeing how the cvs ci and make all went, get back to stopping the erosion on my bridge, packing gear for weekend .... fuck the bills and bank deposits for now),

Submitted by cg.eye on

You mean they really can't stop themselves?

They'll openly use the same rhetoric they did as Obamaoid trolls, during the Democratic Primary Campaign?

They'll hate on their VP candidate worse than the world did on Danny Quayle? Just because she's a skirt?



apolitiko's picture
Submitted by apolitiko on's the Democratic party in general. They are going after her for being a mayor of a small town and calling the choice 'political panic'.

Gee...what a great reaction to the choice right out of the gate. Let's enforce the idea that we don't like Women or rural America.

I think its an interesting choice and the best one to reshape the opinion of the republicans in the public eye. Certainly she'll help bring in the 'soccer mom vote.'

Palin also combats lobbyist-laden Biden by being above corruption (as far as politicians go) as she filed ethics complaints against people in her own party (something pretty ballsy in government contract Alaska).

Submitted by cg.eye on

the moment they didn't fall into line about Obama.

Now, they'll be called Republicans if they ask for anything more than Obama and his team are willing to give regarding women's issues. This isn't just about PUMAs; this is about the demonization of a once-valuable voting bloc, so it can be dismissed like those negro welfare queens and those illegal immigrants and those goldbricking unionists.

Man. Nothing like smothering your old base in its sleep....

(modulo Obama actually holding to his rhetoric last night....)

vastleft's picture
Submitted by vastleft on

But today Ed Schultz did a mocking impression of a whining Hillary supporter who might become interested in the McCain / Palin ticket.

BoGardiner's picture
Submitted by BoGardiner on

She's way to the right of McCain. Anti-choice, and here's some info from Grist on her environmental record.

For me, it keeps coming back to Obama. He's created this mess by angering women. McCain figured the only woman his party would accept is a far rightwinger, so given McCain's age, Obama may have arranged for us to have a President as right-wing as GW Bush.

She'll scare me back to voting for Obama from staying home, I guess, but DAMN I'm angry. Over at Kos they're already making cracks like "Mcain wants to screw our CUNTRY." I hate my party, and hate being trapped like a rat by them.

hobson's picture
Submitted by hobson on

She did an interview with Newsmax:

Palin tells Newsmax that it’s high time Congress allows the development of Alaska’s wealth of oil and gas. She doubts global warming stems from human activity, and she considers herself both a fiscal and social conservative.

Speaking of energy, how much oil and gas does America really have?

We have billions and billions of barrels of oil and trillions of feet of natural gas. We have so much potential from tapping our resources here in Alaska. And we can do this with minimum environmental impact. We have a very pro-development president in President Bush, and yet he failed to push for opening up parts of Alaska to drilling through Congress -- and a Republican-controlled Congress, I might add.

What is your take on global warming and how is it affecting our country?

A changing environment will affect Alaska more than any other state, because of our location. I'm not one though who would attribute it to being man-made.

Then there is this from the Seattle Times:

Republicans in Congress this June united to defeat a proposed windfall tax on oil companies, deriding it as a bad idea that would discourage investment in U.S. oil exploration.

Things worked out far differently in the GOP stronghold of Alaska, a state whose economic fate is closely tied to the oil industry.

Over the opposition of oil companies, Republican Gov. Sarah Palin and Alaska's Legislature last year approved a major increase in taxes on the oil industry — a step that has generated stunning new wealth for the state as oil prices soared.

At a time when Americans are feeling the pinch at the gasoline pump and oil companies are racking up record profits, Alaska's choice foreshadows one of the sharpest debates in the upcoming presidential election.

Democrat Barack Obama supports a national windfall-profits tax, while Republican John McCain opposes it.

TonyRz's picture
Submitted by TonyRz on

You mean they really can’t stop themselves?

Well, they've been signaled that it's okay behavior.

I said months ago on another forum that -- unlike Donna Brazile on CNN, who simply laughed when Castellanos compared HRC to the family dog who finally had to be put down -- if some pundit were to attack a female GOP candidate that way, even in a hotly contested primary, in the presence of anyone in the party - even a supporter of an opponent, that GOP person would jump on the offending throat immediately and start tearing away. As they should.

And there would be followup. Lots and lots of relentless followup.

But from the DNC? Oh, yeah, Dean said the sexism all came from cable news, which he wasn't watching anyway SO THERE.

Hey, Democrats! It's called teamwork, and it breeds success. Even for evil people like the GOP.

TonyRz's picture
Submitted by TonyRz on

Over at Kos they’re already making cracks like “Mcain wants to screw our CUNTRY.”

I detest the Great Orange Satan as much as any grown up liberal with real world concerns and people to take care of, but when I see stuff that raw, I just assume I'm reading a troll.

The next 2 months are going to be "fun". My suggestions?

* Learn to filter.

* Demand attribution.

* Don't let some jerky jerks on the Internet make you mad at the candidate they happen to worship (or support the one they detest, for that matter).

Your date on November 4 DOES NOT involve Internet trolls. THEY will not be in the voting booth, and THEY will not be in the Oval Office in January.

Submitted by lambert on

How I wish it were a troll. In fact, it's a community; that's what ratings are for, to reinforce community norms.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

Valhalla's picture
Submitted by Valhalla on

Dems just can't help themselves on any front. Folks who actually live in small town America won't react well to the Democrat's first statement (when are they going to get that virtually everything that comes out of their mouths sounds condescending to most of the U.S. anyway, even if they're talking about the weather? It's too bad they can't make money off it, because it's quite a talent).

But even for all those not-small-town Americans, that was a poor choice for criticism. The mythology of this country is that we were created as a nation of farmers; there's a romanticism that rural and small townsfolk are more real, more down to earth, less corrupt, and more just plain folks, even among city-dwellers. Oops.

Then throw into the mix -- Alaska is the last frontier. It's tough living up there, and Palin has a repuation as tough gal. I'd not argue that as a country we are especially tough, in any genuine true way, but we sure like to think of ourselves that way.

Were small town folks already under the bus? If not, I have some Welcome Baskets to work on...

Submitted by cg.eye on

Colorado is separated from Alaska only by all the damn Californians who came and spoiled our lovely nature.

When rugged cowboys and oil men go to sleep in Greenwood Village, they dream of going to Alaska where developers can be developers, and everyone gets a check of oil revenue shares.

Dissing Alaska is like dissing the last frontier.

Really. Bad. Idea.

Especially from Mr. Delaware and a Chicago guy....

Submitted by cg.eye on

and is wholly invested in destroying MSNBC for FOX.

Olbermann was an ass concerning the Clintons, but if he goes his more liberal media infrastructure will go too.

Maddow is his padawan, yo....

Submitted by Paul_Lukasiak on

Jeralyn over at TL, who is 100% behind Obama, did the age-ism/sexism two-fer

A first term Governor from Alaska with only a year in the job? McCain now has no "ready to lead" argument to use against Obama. It was his best one. He may be ready to lead, but given his age, we have to consider whether his veep pick is.

This is a woman who is supporting an UNQUALIFIED person for president without reservations --- questioning the qualifications of a woman for the VP spot? Can you say "double standard?"

And then she throws in the "age" stuff?

I've always suspected that the reason why Clinton was so viciously attacked by progressives Obots was because they knew, on a rational level, that their support of Obama made no sense -- so they had to create a "demon Hillary" who had nothing to do with the real Hillary to justify their choice.

jeralyn proves that this is the case. Palin is a marvellous pick for Obama in a host of ways -- not the least of which she confirms what I'd suspected.... that the John McCain of the Bush years was a GOP loyalist because he wanted to be president, and its the John McCain who ran for President in 2000 that would be President if he won.

And Obama's inexperience isn't what makes him someone that I could not support -- its his inexperience combined with his hubris/narcissism. That's a deadly combination in any position of responsibility. An inexperienced person is likely to make mistakes through lack of inexperienced narcissist is likely to insist upon making mistakes even after he gets some knowledge, and won't learn from his mistakes.

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

was certainly disappointing, but let's be clear that she's only been "100 percent" for Obama since the end of the primaries and that she has maintained up until just the other day one of the few places on the Intertubes where non-Obamites maddened by the politics of phony could spout off in safety.

I'm surprised Jeralyn admits to never having heard of Palin before, and I expect once she finds out more, she'll walk that comment back a bit.

Submitted by Paul_Lukasiak on

while Jeralyn had supported Clinton, she had no problem jumping on the Obamawagon -- and has linited what commenters can say about the election now on her blog -- basically, her blog is about party over country.

Its still a great blog, but she's a knee-jerk Democrat -- and her sexist/ageist response to the Palin pick was a knee-jerk response revealing how even feminists will indulge in sexism when party politics play a greater role in their thinking than tolerance and diversity.

dws's picture
Submitted by dws on

you're being a bit harsh on Jeralyn.

If you've never heard of Palin, which she claims (and isn't really TOO unbelievable), it is quite reasonable to assume that Palin is a nobody on the national scene.

Whether you view Obama as too inexperienced or not, he is certainly not a non-entity in national politics and has not been since his 2004 convention speech. It is completely reasonable to believe that Palin is less experienced than Obama, particularly with respect to some issues.

I didn't like the dismissive tone of Jeralyn's post, either, but she did say it was a first impression.

jackyt's picture
Submitted by jackyt on

for her just a few days before the pick. Obviously she has changed her position on that.
I guess TalkLeft is the next site I jettison. I find echo chambers really annoying.

TonyRz's picture
Submitted by TonyRz on

An inexperienced person is likely to make mistakes through lack of knowledge….an inexperienced narcissist is likely to insist upon making mistakes even after he gets some knowledge, and won’t learn from his mistakes.

Calm down. You're acting as if you've had eight years experience with such a situation... Oh, wait.

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

Can somebody direct me to an explanation? I have no clue what that means.

lillianjane's picture
Submitted by lillianjane on

"The only explanation I can think of is that both Kos and the Obama campaign are happy with the outcomes, and so have no intention of reining anyone in."

This is why I held it against Obama personally when his fan base waged their war. I am positive there were at least a few campaign workers whose sole job was to monitor blog comments.

lillianjane's picture
Submitted by lillianjane on

gyrfalcon--COLB is certificate of live birth--the controversy over whether Obama had forged an American birth certificate using his sister's. Cannonfire refuted this, but it keeps coming up again and is a dumb attack line, in my opinion. Plenty to dislike without grasping at straws.

old91A10--a good alternative is "smack down"--the young menz love their sports metaphors.

Submitted by lambert on

And Cannonfire didn't just refute it, he took it down, stomped on the body, then set fire to it, and scattered the ashes.

I'm not pleased that "our side" is perpretrating this shit. That's what I mean about a "come to Jeebus" moment for the PUMAs severally and collectively. That nonsense has to stop. I don't care if it "works" or "this is important."

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

gyrfalcon's picture
Submitted by gyrfalcon on

I was aware of the controversy, didn't realize it had an acronym!

TonyRz's picture
Submitted by TonyRz on

I've stopped reading TL as of that announcement, but it was certainly true that it was an important haven during the primary.

They've expressed a wish to get back to their real mission, which is crime and law, moreso than horseraces, and I look forward to heading back to TL once all this dust has settled, and that unique and interesting content returns.

gqmartinez's picture
Submitted by gqmartinez on

Is McCain/Palin going to be bad for women's issues? Probably*. Will Obama/Biden be better for women's issues? Probably**

But what McCain's pick does is give the impression that he respects women. Ultimately, the blue collar workers who do vote GOP*** seem to feel respected by the GOP more than the Dems. Perhaps this show of respect is enough to offset the problems on the issues.

* I'm becoming more and more convinced that McCain isn't going to be nearly as bad as people say. In fact, I think his political enemies will probably have more of a voice.

** I don't know where Obama will be. Biden may not be the best, but I trust his consistency. I'm not sure that will be enough to contain Obama blunders and flip-flops on the issues.

*** It seems to me that red state working classers are less likely to vote GOP than wealthy liberals like to admit. If they admitted their ignorance, they would do better than they already are. (Lower income red-staters vote Dem just as much as lower income blue-staters!)

TonyRz's picture
Submitted by TonyRz on

I don’t care if it “works” or “this is important.”

One COULD take the generous position that the Zombie Talking Points provide the vetting that Nancy and Deanie and Harry refused to do.

(And while on the subject, did we ever certify that this is a "genuine" PUMA problem? Yes, I'm sure that lots of GOP ratf*ckers have insinuated themselves into the PUMAverse, but, there seems to be plenty of Puma content out there where these shenanigans aren't a significant part of the traffic, or where a lot of PUMAs want to be. Sites differ, of course, but doesn't this unfairly lump your Confluences and your Anglachels in with lesser lights (your NQs and your LRs)???).

Submitted by lambert on

Anglachel is not a PUMA. Cannonfire is a PUMA and is great and not truthy. NQ is PUMA and a lost cause. Confluence is great overall but can get truthy in detail.

The whole thing is all over the map, and if the PUMAs want to be a movement, as I keep saying, then they need to come to Jesus on truthiness. It's not a knock, it's the feedback a friend, outside of the family, would give. "COULD" is not good enough. I'm all for vetting, but that's reporting, not propagating zombie memes, like the COLB thing that is still walking the earth.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

TonyRz's picture
Submitted by TonyRz on

Anglachel is not a PUMA. Cannonfire is a PUMA and is great and not truthy. NQ is PUMA and a lost cause. Confluence is great overall but can get truthy in detail.

Yeah, rigorous sourcing is definitely the order of the day, no matter who you are. I don't know how people don't see that after the Dan Rather/font thingy.

I didn't really want to end up pissing in my own stream, so I chose to not "register" anywhere, and have resisted $$ contributions, but I do read and enjoy (or not) sites as credibility rises and falls.

Clearly, given your list of corrections, a lot of these boundaries and intersecting sets are still blurry in my own mind. Perhaps it's past time for PB to start grading truthy memes for their ratf*cking risk.

Anglachel's picture
Submitted by Anglachel on

Folks, I am not a part of PUMA, though I have a lot of sympathy for their stance and agree with a number of their issues.

I am a Clinton Democrat. Period.


Submitted by lambert on

Moi, aussi.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

TonyRz's picture
Submitted by TonyRz on

It's long past time for me to realize that it's a big ol' infrastructure now, and not just a conceptual framework of dissatisfaction.

Speaking of HRC, I finally had to take the round, blue "Hillary" sticker off my brief case this week.

(Still got some buttons in a drawer if anything happens. :)

TonyRz's picture
Submitted by TonyRz on

If you are unhappy with the ticket, I'm sorry. But, this is a blog, and it's my blog. TalkLeft will do its part to ensure victory in November. In fact, I encourage everyone to make a donation now to Obama-Biden 2008.

As to commenters here:

The comments here fill up quickly with repetitive, tiring criticism we've heard a million times. No more, and especially not today.

Each of our posts can only accommodate 200 comments. So, for those of you who are remain unhappy with the ticket, please find another place to express your dissatisfaction and negativity. Those critical of the ticket will be limited to four comments in a 24 hour period.

In her defense, law and justice is her beat, and in her view:

A Republican-led Justice Department and a Supreme Court with another right-wing ideologue would be the worst possible outcome for me.

So I have no criticism of the decision. I'm just probably not going to be hanging out there for a while, is all.

Submitted by Paul_Lukasiak on

Regardless of the topic, threads would devolve into knee-jerk Obama-bashing.... it was all about "venting" their anger at Obama and the DNC, and the comments were becoming useless.

Submitted by lambert on

I would love to be able to impose a comment policy of a minimum word count an at least one link -- as long as chat was possible in the sidebar. People could vent in the chat box.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

old91A10's picture
Submitted by old91A10 on

Since 'law and justice is her beat,' she will have no problem going back to The Constitution to discover that Congress ought to be holding all of the cards that matter in a Progressive deck. We're not going to get anything fixed as long as they alternately sit on then suck their thumbs.

The DNC must be burned to the ground in order to fix the Democratic Party to fix The Constitution to fix what they helped break....

Mike J.'s picture
Submitted by Mike J. on

With Sarah Palin's pick, McCain has shown he is willing to work for my vote. Obama and the Democrats, on the other hand, seem out to test how much abuse I can tolerate. Well, I have reached my limit with Biden. After lambasting Hillary for casting the AUMF vote, where does Obama get off picking Biden who not only voted for AUMF but was a very vocal supporter of the war. Not to mention Biden's execrable treatment of Anita Hill during Clarence Thomas' confirmation hearings which paved the way for Thomas.

I used to call myself a Clinton Democrat too, but guess what? There will be no Clinton on the ballot, and I am not in the mood to waste my vote. So, from here on out I'm a McCain Democrat.

Submitted by lambert on

Keep 'em both hanging 'til November. Plenty of time to decide.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

badger's picture
Submitted by badger on

while I agree with almost everything in your assessment, I don't agree with your conclusion. McCain is willing to work for your vote via kabuki, not by actually solving problems or taking the right stands on issues.

Palin is a strong candidate - almost the best of the 4 in some respects, like actually accomplishing useful things and certainly the most authentic - but if you were a Clinton Democrat on issues, then McCain/Palin still has little to offer you. And issues, IMO, are what it's about.

I wouldn't encourage you to vote for any Democrat (I'm not), but I wouldn't support or vote for any Republican either (I'm not).