If you have "no place to go," come here!

Torture works: House pisses away your trillion on toxic derivatives nobody else will buy

Trillion dollar giveaway passes the House, 263 to 171.

George, Harry, Nancy, Barney, Barack, Hank: Well done, all. I'm sure nothing bad will happen now, especially not until after the election.

Meanwhile, the perps will be busily spending their trillion to ensure that after the election, nothing can be fixed.

Wall Street, meet K Street. Same "machine" as always, except this time the Democrat Party gets a cut. Ponies!!!!!!!

No votes yet


amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

i surprised they didn't change it or sweeten it for themselves--that might have delayed it, if nothing else.

vastleft's picture
Submitted by vastleft on

Now it's -11.95, at 10470.9.

Still, Rome wasn't fleeced in a day.

Submitted by lambert on

... is to pass a trillion dollar bailout.

The very next day, conventional wisdom will become we're in a recession.

Well done, Dems! You own it, baby!

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

gqmartinez's picture
Submitted by gqmartinez on

From what I've seen, this is the most work Obama has done to get something passed.* don't forget that.

* I'm not privvy to all the backroom stuff for everything in the Senate, but this is the most lobbying by Obama that I've seen. I would like to be pointed to links showing proving me wrong.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

he usually just shows up at the cameras after others do all the work.

Both Obama And Clinton Embellish Their Roles --

"After weeks of arduous negotiations, on April 6, 2006, a bipartisan group of senators burst out of the "President's Room," just off the Senate chamber, with a deal on new immigration policy.

As the half-dozen senators -- including John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) -- headed to announce their plan, they met Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), who made a request common when Capitol Hill news conferences are in the offing: "Hey, guys, can I come along?" And when Obama went before the microphones, he was generous with his list of senators to congratulate -- a list that included himself.

"I want to cite Lindsey Graham, Sam Brownback, Mel Martinez, Ken Salazar, myself, Dick Durbin, Joe Lieberman . . . who've actually had to wake up early to try to hammer this stuff out," he said.

To Senate staff members, who had been arriving for 7 a.m. negotiating sessions for weeks, it was a galling moment. Those morning sessions had attracted just three to four senators a side, Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) recalled, each deeply involved in the issue. Obama was not one of them. ... "

Obama not driving force --

LC's picture
Submitted by LC on

1. I'm not an economist or a finance wizard. Are you?

2. We're in the midst of a worldwide financial panic caused, yes, by the lack of regulation and bright young things with impressive mathematical models that, surprise, didn't work.

3. Now, back in 1929, Hoover's solution was to "let them fail", get rid of the riff-raff, clean out the system. That gave us 25% unemployment, people actually dying of starvation in the Plains, a Depression that lasted over 10 year until WWII. It took almost 20 years for the stock market just to get back what it lost. In the 1990s, Japan had a recession that lasted more than 10 years because it didn't respond to its financial crisis.

4. This bill may or may not work as hoped, but doing nothing would have been much, much worse. On Monday, my 401K (diversified) lost 20% of its value. It is down 35% from its high. The monthly contributions I pour in have been going into a bottomless pit for longer than I care to consider. Individuals, ordinary people, are being hurt. WaMu's shareholders, many of them ordinary folk, lost everything. Ditto Lehman & Bear Stearns.

5. Yes, the revised bill has a lot of non-rescue gimmes added in. This, unfortunately, is democracy. Call it horse-trading or compromise, or whatever you want: you offer x in order to get y. You know, like promising your kid a video game in exchange for good grades. Shouldn't the kid just study because it's good to study? Well, yes, but in the real world just like in the financial & political worlds, bribes can often be very useful. The opposite of NIMBY is YIMBY (Yes, In My BackYard. You don't see the citizens who benefit from all of these earmarks, etc., yelling about the ones that land in their home towns. They only yell about the ones that land in somebody else's. )

6. Yes, the Republicans have, yet again (revisit 1990) made sure that the incoming Dem. President and Dem. Congress will have so much national debt to deal with that they will not be able to implement "Democratic" policies like universal health care - not that I see any great desire on the part of Obama, Pelosi, Reid, etc., to act like Democrats even under the best of circumstances. And the financial problems give them the cover they need to continue to legislate like Republicans.

That doesn't change the fact that we have a financial crisis, a panic that needs to be stopped. Over 50% of the people in this country have 401Ks or IRAs so this is not just a Wall Street thing. Businesses, small & large, live on credit lines because they need cash to make or buy the things they sell. If those credit lines dry up, and they are, they go out of business. Even the most profligate of lenders, credit card issuers, are pulling back. I usually get about 6 offers/mo. I got one in Sept. American Express has cut the amount of credit available even to its best customers (20-30 years of paying off monthly). Yes, Bush & Co. decided to wage a war without paying for it - but many ordinary Americans also live a lifestyle they can't afford by running up credit card debt so high it could take a lifetime of FTE to pay off. (I'm not talking here about people who rely on credit cards to give them the basic standard of living our current govt. won't guarantee by, at the least, having a true living min. wage.)

So, yes, a lot of undeserving people will benefit. The hope is that a lot of deserving people will at least be kept whole.

Submitted by lambert on

If things work out, and your 401(k) is saved, I'll be happy. So far as I can tell, and I've done a lot of studying on this over the last few weeks, there are very few people who think this will work out, and those that do, cannot explain why. That is not a recipe for success.

So I'd translate your comment into what I've been saying: "Torture works."

And I've been hearing the same diversionary logic all week:

1. There's a problem.

2. There are two alternatives: (a) the bailout or (b) nothing.

Not so, just not so. A plan so great, and an emergency so pressing, that the House must be bribed to accept it!

And no, I'm not a finance wizard. If I were, I would have been part of the problem. Are you?

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on -- Only Henry Paulson knows what happens next.

"...When is all of this going to happen?

Nobody knows for sure. ...

Who is going to run this thing?

Nobody knows for sure. ...

What kind of assets are we going to buy?

Nobody knows for sure. ...

How much are we going to pay for these assets?

Nobody knows for sure. ...

Where will all of the bailed-out banks be headquartered-in the United States?

Nobody knows for sure. ...


amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

"At a Harvard panel discussion yesterday, economist professor Ken Rogoff made an interesting point: The liquidity crisis isn't real. Or, to restate it: Any liquidity crisis is caused by the promise of a government bailout. Ken said that his many friends in investment banking said that there is plenty of money to invest in financial services, but right now it is "sitting on the sidelines." Why? Because the financial services industry does not want to pay the terms required to get that money back in circulation (e.g., give up equity). As he put it, why do business with Warren Buffett who will negotiate a tough deal, if you believe that the government will ride in soon with cheaper cash? ..."


Submitted by ohio on

I'm almost out of vodka. This is terrible.

And if I keep reading, I will go from no liquidity to insolvency, meaning I started drinking solvent and then run out of that, too.

Sorry for the crappy jokes. I got nothing else.

Buckle your seat belt. It's going to be a bumpy decade.

amberglow's picture
Submitted by amberglow on

and i'm gonna be 44 in Dec.

my childhood was all during bad economy thru the 60s-70s; i graduated HS into a recession in 82--then another after 87; then better only a little in the 90s; then horrible from 2000 til now...

Submitted by lambert on

Great link, amberglow. Thanks.

[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.