Teachers! Yay!
Listen, how about merit pay for banksters. No? Not on the table?
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Teachers! Yay!
Listen, how about merit pay for banksters. No? Not on the table?
... keep the heat on!
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The text of HR676 (Medicare For All) as PDF (30 pages). The FAQ. Compare HR3200 with HR676.
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* Medicare For All.
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Comments
"Too many supporters of my party have resisted the idea...
...of rewarding excellence...."
Indeed.
Easy Prey
Next, he'll be for lower the pay for American auto workers.
This guy is become old by the minute.
KoshemBos
Accountability does cut both ways
Teachers need more support and better pay.
It's ridiculous that Terrell Owens' contract with the Buffalo Bills so dwarfs the salaries of classroom teachers. But his income will also dwarf firefighters' and police officers' salaries, librarians' salaries, and nurses' salaries. Something is dreadfully wrong when we happily lay down orders of magnitude more money for playing a children's game from August through February than we do for teaching our children from August through June.
I'd love to see classroom teachers get a bonus every year tied directly to the number of their students who demonstrate improvement not on standardized fill-in-the-bubble tests, but in ability and knowledge. You don't evaluate that in 30 minute increments on a scannable form, though. With the press of budget, the lack of time, and the inability of fast, easy measures, that'll be difficult to prove.
I also think that, yes, we should be able to fire teachers whose students don't demonstrate improvement. We should be able to fire -- and file criminal charges against -- firefighters who commit arson and police officers who mistreat or murder those in their care, custody and control. It's simple logic.
Yet I think all these professions -- and they are professions -- deserve to have unions; so do the auto workers, the coal miners, the merchant marine, the steel workers, the telephone operators (are there any left? regardless, the people who maintain the telephone networks and do customer assistance and information for all of us out here with landlines) and the nurses. Heck, I think we ought to have unions for reporters, and copy editors, and university graduate assistants, and mechanics and HVAC repairmen.
But then I'm a known socialist whacko, so...
There are union-rule procedures for discipline, and termination, of employees whose performance is substandard. That's another benefit of unions that our pro-business government cannot seem to wrap its tiny mind around -- you can't unfairly fire people, you can't force them to swallow huge cuts to keep what's left of their jobs. But if you document and counsel the unsatisfactory worker and that person doesn't improve, yes, you can terminate an employee. You just can't do it with the snap of your fingers on any whim.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
Merit pay and class demographics
This has been discussed a lot and you fail to mention it so I'll state it again. Merit pay and firing policies provide a disincentive to working with the at risk student populations. If I'd be getting paid on merit and knew that I might lose my job if I didn't meet someone's desired outcomes, I'd rather teach the advanced calculus class than the remedial math courses. In fact, we probably need the best teachers teaching the remedial class. We should provide incentives for that.
I've been on both sides of the same union line so I understand concerns of the unions, but also know there are bad union practices (they don't always reward the best employees, grrrr). The teacher issue is much less black and white than a firefighter being an arson. In your analogy, I'd say it can be a lot like giving firefighters bonuses for getting the cat out of the tree, while punishing the firefighter who failed to put out a burning building by himself. In truth, it's probably somewhere between the two. It would be worthwhile to more fully discuss this issue rather than reciting talking points and right-wing union fears. (You essentially seem to play on the idea that the teachers are just trying to coast without having to do work. That is part, but not all of the problem.)
Only tyrants rig elections.
The support and better pay has to come first,
a fair and workable way to evaluate performance second, and only then go to any sort of 'merit' pay system. I don't really see good prospects for a fair evaluation system -- even if it could be achieved (which is very difficult), it would be costly, and no one's ever willing to spend the $ when there's a cheaper, if totally inadequate, standardized version that can be thrown around.
It's not just classroom demographics within schools that are the problem, but the demographics of whole schools. There are enough disincentives already for teachers to not go anywhere except white suburban schools, we don't need more.
Almost any system that's likely to be implemented can be gamed. And schools are all about 'mainstreaming' now. So most teachers at grade school and high school level don't really get a choice to teach advanced calc, say, but are teaching one big math class with a huge range of abilities in front of them. I'd say most of the incentives in an 'improvement' scheme would be to ignore the less able and teach only to the more able kids, to maximize the amount of improvement.
But even if a decent evaluation system could be created, it's crap of Obama to talk about imposing a merit system before we get the money and support and resources (like books, paper, and pencils) to teachers. It's silly and unfair to talk about weeding out the people who are falling down on the job (whatever that means) when they don't have the tools to do the job in the first place.
And I think the arson analogy is misplaced. A classroom could fail to show improvement for all sorts of reasons, that's far different from the intentional commission of a felony. It's more like we'd like a plan to fire firefighters for failing to contain a blaze when they have no firetrucks, no ladders and no water.
Reasonable men adapt themselves to their environment; unreasonable men try to adapt their environment to themselves. Thus all progress is the result of the efforts of unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw
and food to the kids
our f-graded schools here have the very most impoverished kids, kids who, among other things, get their food and clean clothes, at school. through massive efforts on her own, the principal of one of the schools has raised the grade of her school to a d-, but it's because she has taken on the burden of feeding and clothing the kids, providing transportation and job-hunting assistance to their parents, and sends the teachers to the kids' homes for parent-teacher conferences because most of the parents are too poor to afford transportation to the school, even though they'd be happy to go to the school to meet with the teachers.
you could give these teachers [and very deserving ones they are too, they're heroes imnsho] all the raises in the world, all the school supplies in the world, and the kids' performance would still be failing. how can they 'perform' when they can't even eat?!
paying teachers according to how well their students do sounds lovely in theory....
All other things being equal
Except they aren't.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Exactly
Perhaps, when we get to the point of all public schools starting near the same place merit pay would be something to be considered, but it simply can't work with the current disparity in the system. In fact, as others have pointed out, merit pay actually leaves in place or even increases the disparity by giving incentive for teachers to run to already well-performing schools.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
No, the idea I'm trying to "play on" is the idea that
in all industries, from garbage-collectors and animal control through juco teaching and firefighting and yes, running international banking and finance corporations, PERFORMANCE ought to determine tenure and pay and bonuses (to some degree this actually works in the NFL/NBA/MLB, but it's not perfect there; it's not completely Darwinian, either, because the media does influence what happens in the locker rooms -- witness the prevalence of doping in MLB).
How that performance is measured would have to vary according to the task and the variables. A teacher working with remedial math students might not have as much trouble, I suggest, showing that the students in the class are improving as would the teacher whose students are on the fast-track (advanced placement calculus), I'd think, at least in part because in a world where we treated our children the way we should, the teacher who has a remedial math class would have three to five students per class session (I cannot imagine a district where a teacher has 40+ advanced-calculus students in any single class period, but I am not a teacher so I am sure there are such districts) ideally and no more than 10.
This is, sadly, not how we do things in the USA.
I do think unions are needed. I do think seniority is important. I do think protecting freedom of speech and association should be a paramount consideration -- nobody should be afraid of losing her, or his, job, for speaking out against asinine policies, for example.
We don't have a true meritocracy in the US. No aspect of our society is run that way. I want to see the changes come from the top down. I think Madoff and Stanford belong in jail; and yes, I'm one of the people who thinks that AIG should fail -- its corporate officers belong in jail. The guy who invented credit default swaps belongs, in my not very humble opinion, in Leavenworth, on charges of treason.
But there MUST be a way to ensure that people who are burned out or unqualified or whose methods do not work don't hold jobs teaching our kids that need to be filled with enthusiastic, qualified, effective teachers. I don't know a better way to express this; let me say it with a cast of non-teachers, and see if it makes better sense to you.
It's like giving a Fox News salary to David Brooks, while letting him keep his NYT gig AND teach j-school at SUNY NYC. He's not really qualified to do two of those jobs, let alone all three, and I'd be all for making sure he never got the chance to collect all three salaries, let alone brag about it in national media outlets. A union should protect him in one of those jobs; it shouldn't protect him in all three, particularly when there are union members who could do two of those jobs more effectively than he could.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
The problem has always been...
... how do you measure "performance" for teachers? The people sell tests will say, Use my test! And so on. And a good teacher's results may show up only years. Not my problem to solve, but I don't think there's an easy answer.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
I used to manage union employees
Managing union employees is relatively easy - just follow the book. I urged inclusion of the division I ran in the bargaining unit, it made it easier to increase their wages, which left me with a far better class of employees. Productivity increased enough to offset the higher wages. I was not unhappy with that move.
My problem with the union was that it got in the way of solutions that worked for both my employees and me. For example, we wanted to change the schedules. But, I couldn't just meet with my employees (who were asking for schedule changes, but to whom I had to say not only no, but I can't even talk with you about that because it would be an unfair labor practice). Instead, I had to wait for the contract negotiation process, and submit my suggested changes to the bargaining team, as did my employees for their side. Then someone else sat down and "bargained" away what each side wanted. It was cumbersome, and often counter productive.
For what it's worth, it is perfectly possible to fire a union employee on the spot. It's just a matter of what the infraction is. I fired a lot of people (mostly after a multi-step process), and I never lost an appeal. But there were rules that called for immediate termination. There were sexual harassment events that got the offender out the door on the spot. I fired people for a couple of gross safety infractions - the sort of thing that was 1) deliberate, 2) against a clearly stated rule, and 3) posed an imminent threat of death or severe injury. The fact is that a workplace is potentially dangerous place; there are rules. One simply must be able to remove workers who grossly violate those rules and the speed with which that happens must be tied to the danger they pose to their fellow workers and the institution as a whole.