and I'm glad to see the blinders coming off, but a lot of damage has been done because of those blinders and this episode only underscores that, in fact, there's a great deal of difference between a centrist candidate willing to lead and a center-right candidate unwilling to lead.

And I'm fucking angry. I'm angry with Wall Street. I'm angry with the GOP. I'm angry with the "leaders" of the Democratic Party. And I'm angry with guys like Stoller who wanted to fall in love with Obama so badly that he couldn't see him clearly and now, under the best case scenario, we're stuck with this useless right-center politician who is a lousy negotiator, constantly willing to sell out the people if it means post-partisanship, as President for the next four years.

BTW, does anyone still believe if Obama was in Congress for the AUMF that he would've voted against it? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

The GOP has outmaneuvered the Dems again. The question will be whether they will learn anything and go hardline themselves or whether they will chase the GOP around and try to get them to sign on to whatever bullshit plan the Dems work out with Bush, which will indeed end up making this the Bush-Pelosi-Obama plan. My hope is for the former, but my bet is on the latter because Stoller is right because Democratic leaders hate politics.

Although I'm with DCBlogger and the fact that the Dems have even considered a deal so toxic to the American public is a sign that lobbyists have way too much power. They really don't care very much what their constituents think. Why should they? Most of these people are in safe seats. Even in an "off" year, incumbents have a 94% re-election rate.

This do-nothing guy gets to sit in the WH for the next four years and be a do-nothing prez cuz, ya know, "the cupboard is BARE"! He'd do SOMETHING for, ya know, um, those losers w/o healthcare, and those, um, lowinfouneducatedolddryvaginavegetables, umm, but there's NO MONEY! And it's not HIS fault, cuz, ya know, um, he was preparing for a DEBATE, not a DEBACLE.
And you thought the Dark Ages were bleak. As Lambert would say, "Haw!"

He is spending half of the press conference raving about McCain ("leader X", outsider, presidential politics, blah, blah, blah) instead of explaining how the hell the negotiations are progressing and what exactly the bullshit plan involves.
Paraphrasing (somewhat snidely) here "Yesterday we had an agreement, everything was going just fine, an than leader X came to town and made our beautiful bailout fall apart. Only banking committee insiders should be involved, outsiders should not interfere."

And were easily tricked into urgency to git 'er done.

I'm convinced that McCain's debate gambit, which may not be enough to salvage his remote chance of winning, did exactly as intended, and got the Dems to believe that cutting a hasty deal would be a master stroke (if by master stroke, you mean pissing away a fucking gazillion tax dollars for a stratospheric boondoggle). Well, maybe the kind of master stroke that makes you go blind....

the correct analogy would be "tits on a steer". Bulls still have their cojones intact, steers don't.

that we all know. He grandstands his way to DC and causes havoc. I'm w/ Tartu on why are the Dem leaders having convulsions about JM if he's making an ass of himself? Barney Frank kept pissing all over the repubs that didn't show up at the meeting and was waving the repub plan while addressing reporters. The Dems seem awfully focused on the repubs when they should be taking the high road and telling the repubs to get on the train and start negotiating.

I love this job!

explain how hens eggs get fertilized? No snark here.

I love this job!

that information going out to the voters, over and over again.

I am not technomage enough to do this, but can somebody hijack the damn chyrons? CNN and Headline News and Fox run those ridiculous three-level stock-ticker bars on EVERY sports-bar, truck-stop and airport-lounge tv in the nation.

Isn't it time they carried some real information?

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

... in the primary because he couldn't get over Hillary's vote for the IWR? This is the same "Whole Foods Nation" creative class snob who helped push Obama on us because he wasn't Hillary? And now that he got his way, he's not happy with his savior? He expected more even when we told him time after time that Obama was a Product and Hillary was the real deal?
You mean THAT Stoller?
WHERE WAS HE 6 MONTHS AGO???
Come together at The Confluence

He's *one* of them. The Republicans are accomplishing two things with this bailout:1.) they are engineering the best terms that they can for themselves by creating fear, uncertainty and dread in the populace at large. When the public is sufficiently spooked, the Democrats will cave to the Rpeublicans demands and 2.) Obama is not going to ask for anything to help out the average Joe because that might mean the Wall Street guys that funded his rise to power are going to have to take some kind of loss. And Obama owes them. BIG time. So, he's going to be forced to screw the little guy and the Republicans are going to capture it on tape for posterity. All the Obamaphiles are going to have the dissonance severely shaken from their cognition. They will see The Product for what he truly is. And it will be too late to do anything about it except vote against him to get their party back.
Come together at The Confluence

That's all I ask. And grovelling. And I would like for him to say, "The old, uneducated, working class Sino-Peruvian lesbians were right after all and we should have listened to them."
At this point in time, it isn't too much.
Then, he can start upping the visibility of Hillary's plan at Open Left, and actually *praise* some of its good points while debating the merits of re-establishing the proper role of government with respect to its citizens.
Until he does that, his sudden revelation is pretty fricking useless. We need help and unless bloggers like Stoller step up and help us scream Hillary's plan until it gets someone's attention, at least enough to get her included in negotiations, he's of no use to us. The very least Stoller can do is help us hold Obama's feet to the fire and make the Democratic leadership act like Democrats.
Come together at The Confluence

Apologies are for sino-peruvian gayfolk. Surely you haven't had *that* many scratching post happy hors :o).

You know how the Dem leadership occassionally throws us a bone (we'll filibuster FISA) only to sell out in the end? Same with the progblogs. Besides, I thought eating crow was their way to trick people into voting for Obama.

I consider BO a non factor now. He stole the primaries, backtracked on every major position and now can't even appear "presidential" during this economic "crisis." Now is the perfect time for BO to rip McCain a new one, before the debate. BO should kick him while he's down and say "Country first? Country first?! I'll give you Country first!!" He can't. He's ineffectual.

I've heard that in the "bailout plan" meeting w/ McCain, Obama, Bush et al, McCain got firsties and subsequently deferred to "seniority", as he called it, a republican senator. Amazing.

Isn't anyone the least bit interested in how certain senate republicans have thrown McCain under the bus after he travelled to DC to "fix" the economy? After he said he wanted to work on the plan, they said, no thanks we want Wall Street to work this out on their own. They threw him under the bus. There is some major interparty feuding going on in the GOP and Axelrod & Co. should be maximizing on it. Nope. We're post partisan now....when it's convenient.

The crowning glory will be when JM debates him tonight and beats him because that's how this whole GE campaign has gone.

I love this job!

I just read lambert's post and this from Stoller:

It’s just more evidence that Obama’s people represent zero change from the Democratic status quo.

You know what? This "crisis" has demonstrated most picturesquely what a huge mistake the dems made by choosing a relativey inexperienced guy as the candidate for prez after the horrid Bush/Cheney reign. Oh, it was always the case. During the primary and since he was declared the presumptive nominee, his inability to make the case and soothe and reassure the country, offer concrete solutions, and speak with authority about anything of substance was obvious. But now, in an actual crisis, he has the same deer-in-the-headlights look about him that Bush has in times of trouble. McCain's a joke, a sad, tired joke. Hillary was passed over for these two.

What's funnier is that I read comments by Obama supporters who say that, even though they're happy Obama will win, they don't expect anything to change.

We tried to tell them. We were called racists.

fools like Stoller and all the rest who pushed Obama and trashed Hillary need to be. They have no credibility with me and many others anymore.

they're waking up just now? are they imbeciles?????

when it's too late--it's infuriating.

I am not enthused about BO. However, I will vote for him. But I think I must take exception to elixirs pre-analysis to the debate. John McCain is too stupid, and old (and pathetic) to be able to "win" a debate with the so-called Democrat candidate.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

Just wondering, is Sarah Palin too female to win a debate?

Any other groups that can't win a debate?