Lambert asked a question, buried way down below the weeds in an update of a Quo Vadis Hillary? post, that needs some broader consideration.
Lambert writes:
As far as “What is to be done”? these are my thoughts: Better to work on new things (and set the record straight on open issues, like caucuses). Things like universal health care, for example, won’t come from Obama because his base doesn’t care about that. Therefore, any pressure has to come from outside.
Goes straight to the nut of it, doesn’t he? I've been thinking too that it is time to spread out a bit. From a tactical standpoint, it seems to me, the best and strongest thing I can do is press on with progressive causes regardless of who won what election. FSM knows there is no shortage of decent issues that need addressing. The list is as long as ever and, thanks to Bush and the Republicans, every one of them is in worse shape.
My earlier approaches to discussing the formation of a new Grand Coalition were met here with general derision, doubtless richly deserved, which means that either I don’t understand the issues (high probability) or have failed to synthesize them properly (higher probability) or failed to present them clearly (even higher probability) or I’m just flat-out wrong (it’s happened before). I’m going to came back to that topic again, though, because I don’t think progressivism will gain traction with a fragmented approach. I also want to find a way to help keep Clinton in the game while supporting the Democratic chances in November, and from my perspective these things all overlap. Any and every subject that contributes to those objectives is, IMNSHO, well worthwhile.
Lambert’s been doing too much of the heavy lifting here for too long. He is a total mensch, but by now his fingers must be worn down smooth. Not saying I want to see less of him, but rather more of others. Please. I hope to see more contributions from the many new voices here; Corrente is a uniquely heady blend of ingredients, the pungent richness and variety of which is unmatched elsewhere in the known universe, and made all the better for fresh contributions.
So many of you have hinted at backgrounds of unusual and extraordinary accomplishment; clearly you have thoughts aside from the daily political contestations that would bring valuable insight and needed new information and viewpoints on a whole host of interesting and informative topics. Often I see a series of comments that, pulled together and contextualized – or not – would be a delight and a pleasure to read as a stand-alone post. It does require an effort; that’s true for all of us, but the reward is worth it. As Tom Lehrer observed, “Life is like a sewer; you get out of it what you put into it.” More and better perspectives from you all, please.
Equally, I hope to see more from the Fellows who lately have been around less frequently than in the past. I came to Corrente because of that diversity of voices, that spread of Points of View, and many times in the last six months I have longed to see what the Fellows would have to say on this or that event. A month or so ago, astoundingly, our Civil War claimed another life; one more casualty a hundred and fifty years after the event, in the midst of yet another great upheaval over the same economic and cultural issues that tore the country apart way back then. Went unnoticed in the MSM, but how I longed for Xan to put it all in perspective with historical context and a hardscrabble recipe or two.
The MSM meltdown accelerates, with every major news outlet becoming a parody of them selves, the intertwining and pathological enmeshment apparently designed to turn every form of news delivery into a lowest common denominator enfotainment amalgam of USA Today, People Magazine and a very badly drawn Saturday morning cartoon. Leah, wherefore art thou, Leah? Make sense of this for me, please, or at least comfort me by telling me that it makes no sense. Please, bring me something rational before my head actually does explode. And while you’re at it, what is with this Obama guy you recommended? I just don’t get it. All this enthusiasm for a black guy who dances like a white man? Do. Not. Under. Stand.
I need my ChiDy. I’m begging you baby, I’m on my knees, please baby please, come home. Slap me around if you have to, call me out, make damn certain I get told as often as I need to that I am not all that, smack me upside the head for my own good, shock me, surprise me, whip me, beat me, make me eat my vegetables.
Where is Xenophon? Too busy? Fuck
that. You promised me an afghan; so far I ain’t seen shit. There you sit, in the heart of the Beast, walking around on the very sidewalks that the Chosen One has strolled upon his very own self, surrounded by the sights and the sounds and yes the smells of every ingredient that went into this great huge greasy tube of sausage I’m being asked to eat and you have no time for me? Where is my weekly bucket of cold water, smack in my face? I know you’re holding; don’t bogart it. Pull out a choice thought now and then and pass it around. Hook a brother up.
Shystee and Sarah; you’ve been a steady source of company and challenge, but like fine wine some is not enough. I want more more more more and more. Even when you beat on me, I like the sound of the percussion.
All the others, including mjs and vastleft who think their personal lives are somehow more important than providing entertaining to me, are deeply missed. (The Person Who Is Not VastLeft But Continues To Post Here Using His Name is pretty damn good too; an amazing stylistic resemblance.) I hope they will continue to stop by and share the wisdom. My day is always brighter when I see their sig.
And then there’s this.
Representations have been made that perhaps some of the Fellows are not comfortable or are feeling unwanted or somehow excluded, that they cannot be heard above the shouting or that they won’t be read or considered, that the internecine struggle has changed the menu at Corrente from an eclectic buffet to a trough of raw meat. To the extent that I’ve contributed to a decline in diversity, I apologize. If I’ve damaged the goods here, and I have certainly caused some bruising, I am so, so sorry. Never my intent to do harm. On reflection, Lambert’s very kind words notwithstanding, I’m not at all sure that anyone actually needs to hear anything more from me about anything. I’ll keep on writing, plenty of opinions, but it isn’t as though what I’ve written here has made a measurable impact on outside events.
What Corrente needs above all, IMNSHO, is more from the Fellows; more of their strong voices, more of their wisdom, more teaching of both how to write and most importantly what to write about. That would be good for me, and good for the world around us.
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Amen!
I haven't been around all that long, (it took a while for me to slip in this puddle of sanity), but the conversation makes my head work. Thank you, Xenophone, ChiDy, Lambert, Bring-it-on, Vast Left, KatieBird and all the rest for offering peepholes in the hoardings of life that show a whole new perspective for consideration. You enrich my pasty white-bread life, and I thank you for it!
Thanks Bringiton
There are more fights than the current Big Divisive
One. We actually are all in a fight for our lives and a fight for our great-great grandchildren's lives. There are some fine warriors in this building.
Maybe it's more like we are all driving in the same car, everyone wants the wheel and to swerve to avoid one or the other obstacle. Probably best though to first know where you want to get to, as well as where you are and if you are heading in the right direction.
Enjoying the ride along the way is nice too.
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Good night and good riddance!
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Around these parts we call cucumber slices circle bites
We'll be baaahck
...or not. Who knows? There is nothing magical about the Senior Fellows (with the exception of Leah and CD and Sarah, of course, they are very powerful, and the rest are some of the coolest people EVAR). We helped to build this city on rock and roll but that doesn't mean you can't dance the polka or get all funky up in here.
When we have something to say we will say it loud and proud, just like JB.
Other Senior Fellows may have a whole different take, but this is mine and I enjoy making generalizations.
Corrente means current in Italian. Electrical current, current events and the current of a river. You can't make rivers flow backwards.
When I started blogging I wondered what I should write about, we even had discussions about it in the olden Corrente days. My conclusion, and I think it was shared by others, was: write about what you care about, what you would find interesting.
And so it was. Rather than try to go after a certain audience or claim a subject niche, Corrente was where folks wrote about whatever the they thought was cool (and relevant, and interesting).
It's nice that Lambert has granted us honorifics, we did put in a lot of time and we're nowhere near close to being done, but that shouldn't stop anyone from doing their thing.
If you're writing, you're contributing, and that is what is needed. It's a collective thing. Carrying on a tradition of being reality-based and interesting is appreciated.. pretty much required.
And just because we're not posting as much doesn't mean we're not engaged in some other aspect of the progressive movement. Or that we don't lay awake at night worrying about this stuff.
Dropping out and giving up is not an option.
And BIO, I've been writing for a while now that electoral politics is the wrong arena to fight policy battles. There is a whole other side of the field that needs to be dealt with. Your Grand Coalition sounds interesting.
Hey shystee; good thing we sorted out CA water problems, eh?
You understand, my plea is not entirely high-minded; I want to change the world alright, but damn it I also want to be entertained in the process. Focus on only one passion is fun for a while but eventually there needs to be some variety, you know what I’m saying?
Agreed, entirely, on the pincer movement advantages, and if one or the other had to be selected as the more powerful engine it would IMHO be the policy side. Politicians come to power through the established order, and being human tend to protect that which nurtured and supports them. Big progressive changes, like the New Deal and Great Society programs, or universal suffrage, are always driven from the bottom up. Politicians, on the electoral arm of your figure, are driven by the force of public opinion to either enact the demanded change or are replaced by those who will.
For too damn long the right has taken over the policy side and used it to control the electoral side, so effectively that there is little difference now between the functional policies of the Republican and Democratic Parties. (I say little difference, but difference there is and enough that it still matters.) The whole of the electoral process is driven by and exists to serve the interests of a 1% Plutocracy, crudely thus:
Lies, greed and lust for power are all eventually unsustainable, and it appears this cycle has peaked and is now in decline. For a time there is an opportunity to provide some guidance in a progressive direction, if a way can be found to bring together some substantial portion of the 99% who are not now benefiting.
Shouldn’t be all that difficult, but unfortunately we are stuck with working with humans, so terribly difficult to get their attention and bring them to focus. What we appear to lack for dealing with the existing electoral structure is a progressive equivalent to the dogmatic religions. In the short term, it may be possible to substitute the less dogmatic, more humanist centered religions but every time I raise that possibility my atheist friends recoil in horror. This coalition building thing is difficult.
For better or worse, we are finally done with this damn primary season. Once the grieving process is moving along it will be time to take some of that newly excess energy and apply it to pressure points in ways that cannot be ignored. Universal health care should be a pushover; if there were only one progressive issue to be advanced, I would choose it because I believe that with not too much more effort it can be had. Winning is always good; it attracts more power, to be used for the next item on the list.
Thanks for commenting; I appreciate it.
Hmmm....
Red box on one side, green box on the other? That's not my understanding of Unity
....
[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
And hmmm....
Woman's suffrage IIRC was driven by the NWP. Just sayin.
[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
We're Back to that Susan B. Anthony Quote
"No Self Respecting Woman Should Wish or Work for the Success of a Party that Ignores Herself."
You could substitute Person for Woman and it would still be right.
"Hmmm" - envisions Lambert stroking chin
Hmmm #1: Unity
is a flexible concept. From the above 2-D diagram you can envision a 3-D cube, with the Democratic and Republican Parties on opposing sides. Along with the MSM and Dogmatic Religion, they form a structure that supports a dominant Plutocracy on top. The four supporting groups are united in their support of the Plutocracy for their own protection and in their need for money which is controlled by the 1% Plutocracy.
All four sides are united by their entrenchment in the power stucture and the requirement for money to sustain their position and the construct itself. They depend on, are united with, the dominating Plutocracy and each other in the interest of stability and control. Money, getting it and using it, is the currency of power and the common language that binds them together.
On a functional level, you can think of the need for two parties as one needs two reins for a horse. One will do, but it is far easier to train and manage a horse with two. Steer him a little left, steer him a little right, an occasional use of the spurs and he trots along down the path as you wish him to. All he wants, all he expects, for his labors is a bit of dry hay and an occasional treat of some oats. Giddy-Up!
"Hmmm" #2, and BDBlue too
The NWP was an advocacy party, not a political one. They were the Policy side of Shystee's Pincer diagram. They did not run any candidates, nor did they offer endorsements. They saw the whole of the establishment power structure as the problem, and focused their action on whoever held office. By the time they got good and rolling that was Woodrow Wilson, who eventually tried to use a war, perverted patriotism, extraordinary presidential power, imprisonment and torture to silence them. And from a Democrat, no less! Who would have expected that? (Good to keep in mind, on dark days, is that they won even in the face of all that entrenched power.)
BDBlue, you make me smile: "You could substitute Person for Woman and it would still be right." That is a relief then, isn't it? Imagine what things would be like if that were not the case. :-)
What I'm calling for is something that is inherently inclusive, both in structure and in name. IMHO, gender-based language is immediately selective and thus exclusive in ways that will, my view, inhibit the growth of this new coalition to the size it needs to be for effectiveness.
If women-focused, women-branded advocacy groups were enough, we should have seen NOW and NORAL and Emily's List and even MADD with more influence than they have. How many women-affiliate action groups does it take to change a lightbulb, anyway? Seriously, I'm asking; are they all waiting for a man to show up and do it for them? (Clarity expository: 50% snark, 50% exasperation.)
It isn’t as though women have all the right answers, any more than men do. One sobering reminder of female gender based passion run institutionally amuck:
Just sayin’.
The problem is BIO
is not that we need a man to show up and do it for us, but we definitely need more men advocating for us.
Look at Concerned Women for America. Feminists used to laugh at them, because it's always men who come out with the hand wringing about our culture, but we shouldn't have been laughing. It worked. Being a women focused group, but having men be out in front, got their message out in the media, whereas as women focused groups, use women spokespeople, and are ingnored.
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
That's What I Was Aiming For, BIO
Even if my wordiing wasn't perfect.
The reason for the woman-centric language in the Anthony quote was, of course, women did not have the Constitutional right to vote and would be the last to get it (even though, obviously, in some parts of the country some of those who had it couldn't exercise it). The women holding the sign were using it to protest the Republican party for its refusal to support suffrage. Given the misogyny and the general feeling that women will simply get in line no matter how many times the Democrats kick us in the teeth, it resonates for many of us this year for obvious reasons.
Which is why, although I certainly believe in human rights for all, that does not, IMO, obviate a need for a specific women's movement on our own behalf. Right now, even though we are the majority of the population, we are the minority in the power structure. Any new party or movement is likely to reflect that since it will come from this culture. Progressive movements are full of examples where women have been treated as less equal than men. Look at how quickly many of the Blogger Boiz embraced rightwing anti-Hillary talking points, many based on sexist stereotypes, and how desperately many of them seek to deny that any misogyny or sexism at all occurred in the campaign.
That does not, of course, mean that every movement led by a woman is right or just or uncorrupt. It just means that if you depend on others to fight for your equality, especially if those others benefit from your oppression, then don't be surprised if you never get it.
Having said that, the principle Susan B. Anthony espoused, that you should not work for a party that does not respect you (note, that does not mean does not always agree with you or isn't perfect) is, I believe, universal.
The power of the comma, Aeryl
I know, it just dangles there, wee little thing, a brief appendage, seems as though it could be ignored but when you do....
Consider the difference:
versus
(sniffs, licks old wound, staggers onward...)
The problem is, Aeryl, women not seizing the power. It won't get handed to you and, IIRC our previous conversations, men holding open a door is verboten because...well, because...well, I don't know why, but it is so there. Damn the CWA for their bi-gendered male-facilitated effectiveness!
Women are 51% of the population and for 95% of men control our access to sex, which in truth is all we really care about in life. If women could get themselves organized – see Lysistrata – for something more complicated than high tea or a shopping trip, they would rule the world, absolutely. Yet, here we are, with men still making the big decisions. Reason being, gender-based movements, gender-based organizations, are always limited in their effectiveness beyond a single issue.
Women's This, Women's That, absolutely dandy for single-issue gender-specific agendas. Not so useful for broad-based multi-focal issues that cut across gender lines. Hunger, education, health care, a living wage, the ability to accumulate capital, are Human Issues, not specific to one gender or another, one race or one ethnicity or a religion. Any coalition that can grow large enough to seize control of them cannot, IMNSHO, be entitled with either a name or a purpose that self-defines – and thus excludes – along those narrow lines.
Women, as a class, will have gender equality in power when they stop asking for it and start taking it. Don’t mean for that to sound harsh or cold-hearted, but there it is.
Bite me Grammer Nazi :D
Funny thing is, I had it in there, then for some reason took it out. I guess I was subconsiously trying to offend you.
for 95% of men control our access to sex, which in truth is all we really care about in life.
The concept of women as the gatekeeper to the pussy is what has caused a lot of women's oppression in the first place, so I'll thank you to stop perpetuating it, mmkay.
What I'm focusing on has nothing to do with seizing power. It's about being taken seriously, and women are still not taken seriously. We are written off as hysterical, emotional, PMS having harridans, who can't be trusted to act rationally, which is bullshit. So when women's organizations are out there advocating for a stop to sexism, it is ignored. But when a man, like you BIO, stands up, and advocates for a stop to the sexism, people listen. Women see it all the time in meetings, and even the internet. People will non gender specific names don't face the harrassment. Women in board meetings can offer a suggestion, have it ignored, then see it accepted five minutes later when someone with a penis says it.
Unfortunately that is the way our society works, and instead of running around all the time telling us, UR DOIN IT RONG, why don't you throw us a helping hand for Goddess's sake.
I even have an extra credit assignment for you. Go to another website you frequent, especially one where you are as contrarian and challenging as you are here and start commenting under a feminine name. See what happens.
We can't take power, because we won't be allowed to keep it, until society recognizes all women as rational actors. Society doesn't do this yet, which is why we need our male allies, to speak in our defense to society as a whole, though not in our individual battles, there is a difference. (NOTE: IMO, your clinging to outmoded gender stereotypes like ladylike and gentlemenly behavior doesn't help.)
Not so useful for broad-based multi-focal issues that cut across gender lines. Hunger, education, health care, a living wage, the ability to accumulate capital, are Human Issues,
I do agree, but I'm going along more with hipparchia's idea, that there will be 3 large coalitions, and we will work together and ally as our issues coincide, and it might be more functional.
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
Your wording was fine, BDBlue
Just a little fun with words, a gentle bit of play. I even used a smiley face!
We seem to be agreeing lately on far too many things. Must find points of disagreement lest comfort set in. Next week, after Hillary has had her say, will be good time to start dialing down the rancor and sorting out a political action approach that moves the agenda where you - actually we, if enlightened men can be tolerated - want things to go.
We need lots of allies - it is Power To The People! dontcha know?
I've read you, Aeryl
And
boy, uh,man, ah, wow do I have comments in reply. But in my awkward and repressive gentlemanly way I have to go now to try and save Hillary Clinton and tend to my pasoli, so look for me here later on - mmkay?