Or, conversely, when is your wine drinkable? Does it vary by the ingredients?

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

But I look for my wines to be stable and clear before bottling, which depends on the type of wine. Some ferment out and clear relatively quickly, others take as much as a year to clear unless you use a clarifying agent. I don’t filter so I have to be patient. After bottling I prefer to let it rest for 3 to 6 months before sampling. Then it’s a matter of letting it age and tasting regularly to see how the wine evolves.

between pear wine and peary. Peary being made the same as apple cider except with, well, pears. Why they did not call the resulting fluid “pear cider”, or, conversely, the other one “appley”, is one of those mysteries of nomenclature the solution to which is far above my pay grade in the amateur-historian department.

Feral, welcome aboard if I didn’t say so earlier. If you want to ditch those sissy 1920s recipe for the real old timey stuff I have a pretty substantial collection of cookbooks from the early to mid 1800s. (Cookbooks, unless written by an absolute temperance fanatic, almost always included recipes for beer and wine as they were not considered in the same category as “ardent spirts” or distilled products. Plus they, along with cordials, frequently served as medicines.)

I have another book, modern (well, about 10-12 years ago) with booze recipes going back quite a ways earlier than that. In fact it begins with a recipe for Sumerian ale from CD’s beloved “Hymn to Ninkasi.” It is a bit lacking in precision details but then again it’s rare enough to find a chant to the deities containing cooking information of any sort.

But would be an amusing item to tackle, particularly if you have access to barley bread in bappir quantities, date honey, and reed mats.

:)

I’ve been thinking getting back into it, maybe mead. Thinking back, I would need:

1. Carboys, stoppers, bubblers

2. Stainless steel pot for boiling

3. Scale

4. Bottle washer that screws to faucet

5. Sampler (tube thingie you put your thumb on the top of)

6. Tubing with clip

7. Corking machine

8. Graduated cylinder

9. Specific gravity thingie

What am I forgetting? Yeast, of course. Honey. Various nutrients.

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

The only item I have ever (blush) bought off a TV home-shopping channel. Chanced upon it whilst clicking through the channels back in cable days before remotes could be programmed to display only channels of one’s choosing.

But that made damn good beer, dammit. Only flaw is that it required you to buy the pre-made canned concentrate stuff to start off with, about the consistency of molasses.

Mix with warmed water, add the yeast, I think maybe sugar at this stage, put it in the jug, attach the bubbler vent, and let set. (Procedure approximate as it’s been awhile.) Week or so later dispense into sterilized bottles until they were about half full, top off with more water and add sugar if that wasn’t done in the pot, and let the bottles set another week or so. Drink.

Somehow I have misplaced the main brewing pot, the “Mr. Beer” device itself. Still have the instructions in a kitchen drawer someplace, and a couple of cans of the concentrate. Would probably need to replace the yeast packets (although I dunno; they were sealed, dry yeast, and yeast lasts a good long time if kept from air) and I’d be in business.

I pretty much gave up drinking beer awhile back because all you can get around here is el crapola Bud and Coors and the like. My theory is that they corrupt the taste buds of youth when they engage in the usual recreational activity of rural areas, which is buying a case and driving around rural roads drinking and throwing cans in the ditch. Then when they get old enough to buy it on their own they don’t know any better and keep buying the crap. Sigh.

And i have to patrol regularly to pick their damn cans out of my ditch, dammit, lest anybody think *I* have such low taste as to consume this stuff myself. I try not to be a snob about most things but that’s in the ’up with this I shall not put’ category. :)

Try these guys for an inexpensive beer-brewing kit, ingredients and stuff: http://www.michiganbrewing.com/Home.jsp

Good ol’ friends of mine. Their amber Ale recipe is as awesome as they say.

I’m having a great time homebrewing. Wine and meade will follow soon, as I get things growing around here.

Also, Xan, in regard to your sig line, I saw this great article, and I thought you’d like it: http://blog.ltc.arizona.edu/naturebatsla…

OK, it’s a FANTASTICALLY nice day outside, and I’m going out to play.

—mf

From High Atop The Mighty Corrente Building… Comes Wisdom.

There’s an orchard near here that makes wine as well as cider. The guy that runs it is a chemist for an oil company, and a total cider geek. He insists it’s Peary, and labels his products as such. And thanks for the welcome, Xan.

Lambert - I’ll be putting together a post in the near future on getting started on making wine. I’m going to make a basic (and optional) equipment list with pictures.

but I’m glad you told me in advance that these guys were friends of yours or I would be very rude about their website. Pictures of each kit, shot from far enough away that each one conveys the message “Two buckets and some Stuff,” with successive pictures showing more Stuff. And the worst part of all, no prices listed! I searched all over before realizing you had to click on each picture, as if you were ordering, to find out what the price was.

Like I say, I’m sure they’re very nice people but feh, they need a website redesign badly. No insult intended; everybody has things they’re good at and things they are not-so. There are no doubt many very talented website designers who are no damn good at making beer at all. :)

And you may consider $60 “inexpensive” but I don’t, and that’s a bigger setup than I either need or have room for.

Mr. Beer, for all the cutesy-sounding name, is really a rather notably ingenious design, taking advantage of concentration-and-then-dilution at every step so that you don’t have to start off with gallons and gallons of water. It takes up barely a square foot of counter space AND can be used with regular cooking vessels available in any kitchen.

The only shortcoming, as mentioned, is that you’re dependent on the pre-prepared canned concentrate to start out with. If one were determined to go forth into the barley field with one’s scythe, and a row of hop plants in the back yard, your friends’ setup would probably be just the thing to go for to start out.

I on the other hand should stage one more search through, and under, the house. I know I’ve seen it since we’ve been in TN, the question is where I stashed it to keep it out from underfoot. Chances are it’s in the same place as Grandma’s old hand-cranked vegetable/sausage grinder that I can’t find either. Sometimes I am too good a packer-upper for my own damn good. :)

http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/200…

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

call it “perry” and it only varies as to whether it sparkles (made with added yeast) or not (frozen, clear ice removed as for ’hard cider’).

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!— Xan

as it is for determining the hard-vs-not qualities. Yeast’s main job after all is making alcohol. A normal load of fruit or anything grown outside will have yeast on the skin. A load of apples or grapes or whatever, if just mashed, the juice drained off and bottled, will ferment from that wild yeast.

It might not be the most exquisite taste treat given that you have no idea what strain(s) of yeast went into the mix, but the only way to avoid this result is to boil the juice thoroughly before bottling. (or boil it and then add yeast of your own selection.)

Sure it will produce carbon dioxide but the resulting product will not be bubbly unless it is sealed in a container that can stand the pressure buildup without leaking or exploding. As I understand it this is why it took so long to develop champaign—it wasn’t until glass bottles of requisite thickness and ability to hold a cork in place were devised.

As an aside to the overall subject, this is why I always giggle at the people who piously think Jesus drank grape juice at the Last Supper and therefore that’s what they should use for the Eucharist. Um, not unless there were fresh grapes available in Judea in the springtime, folks.

if you want to use grape juice because it’s cheaper, or you don’t want to discourage people under legal drinking age from participating in the ritual, fine.It’s all symbolism anyway so you can use water for all I care. But don’t make up ahistorical nonsense to justify it, okay?

IMNSHO:

Do not boil, because you will boil away all the flavor. What I used to do was bring the honey to a boil, then take it off the heat. That worked well, and all the floral aroma didn’t escape into the air. Of course, things may be different with fruit.

Anyhow, don’t even think of putting anything that can ferment into a bottle (at our level). Worst case: the bottle explodes, flying glass, wine all over everything. Best case: Wine turns to vinegar.

I believe that over centuries, yeast becomes part of the microclimate of a region; it adapts to the fact that wine is made there.

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

The dominant wild yeast in apples will ferment into vinegar, the yeasts that produce alcohol are not plentiful enough on apples to make wine naturally. To prevent this home winemakers (and most commercial wineries) use sodium metabisulfate (campden tablets) to inhibit wild yeasts, then after 24 hrs, innoculate the must with the desired strain of yeast to produce alcohol.

Sulfites can be a problem for certain people who are sensitive to them, they can cause migraines, sinus problems, etc. which is why you’ll see the statement on all wines that use them “Contains sulfites”. Fortunatly, sulfite sensitivity is pretty rare.

It’s all symbolism anyway so you can use water for all I care

After all, doesn’t it turn into blood during the sacriment anyway?

on the yeast issue, as I thought Sarah was emphasizing the less-important aspect of yeastly metabolism. Never having made wine or cider meself that was not intended as a recipe, more of a discussion of chemistry.

Yeah, I can see that boiling honey would be rather drastic, flavor and probably structure wise.

Oh, and that “Make” magazine you linked to above during the Mr. Beer discussion? Interesting little site, sounds like a cool magazine for an inveterate tinkerer such as myself. However I gotta say that the commenters in that particular thread came off as the snootiest bunch of reverse-snobs I’ve seen lately.

“Oooh, don’t sully yourself with a Mr. Beer, the beer my cousin’s girlfriend’s neighbor made wasn’t any good, go out and spend six times as much on a shitload of real glass carboys and oh yeah Buy This Book and support your local homebrew store….”

after awhile I began to suspect a campaign by the Homebrew Retail Association, combined with an undercurrent of their real complaint with the device being it’s too easy. :)

I hate to ruin their purity campaign but I made dozens of batches with my Mr. Beer, never used anything more sterilizing than kitchen sink dish soap & water, and their screw-on-top plastic bottles too. The beer was just fine, thank yew very much.

Xan, I thought those comments at the beer site were a little eliteist too. If what you’re doing works, go with it.

Did you have to buy the manufacturers own concentrates for Mr. Beer? I wonder if they had added sulfites (or something else) into the concentrate to insure there would be no contamination. Most types of brewing beer involve heat at some stage, so there’s a sterilization factor in play there.

the stock Mr. Beer brand concentrates, figuring they’re designed for the size of brewing vessel that is the Mr. Beer.

Wish they still carried the kind I had (have around here somewhere I mean), which was upright, rather than barrel-laying-over-sideways which is their current design. Takes up less space. Also wish I could find a local retail who carries them because holy crap the shipping rates these guys want is out-bloody-rageous. $9.50 for a $5.95 can of mix?? I don’t think so.

[fume]

However it’s a moot point as they don’t take Paypal and I don’t have credit cards any more.

So back to the theoretical discussion. What, if anything, is the difference between brewer’s yeast and bakers? In the 19th century books—this being before dry or even cake yeast was commercially available—a housewife who for whatever reason lost her household yeast supply was advised to go to the nearest “inn” (aka tavern) and obtain a new stock from the brewmaster, mix it with flour and such other substances (hop tea and potatoes most commonly) and be back in business.

Does this still hold true? In a pinch could I use a regular packet of Fleishman’s or Red Star intended for bread? Or would my beer come out with a nice toasty brown crust on it, and a bit on the chewey side? :)

We could have a wine and cheese party!

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

Yeast strains have gotten pretty specialized. Bread yeast will produce some alcohol but is intended to produce the CO2 that form the voids in bread, alcohol is a byproduct that evaporates during baking. Brewers yeast will produce much more alcohol and is bred to survive in a high alcohol environment. In the past there was probably less difference between the two.

in relation to these folks?

White Labs — maybe you could give them a call?

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!— Xan

A loaf of bread, and glass of wine, and thou, meaning a good cheese…yes?

Love this post, Feral Liberal. It is much the same with making your own bread. Yes, the creativity, and very much being in a moment. Even making the same breads, it’s never the same, so much depends on elements not easily controlled, and there is the unique pleasure of working with a living, breathing entity. It’s alive!

Isn’t there yeast on grapes? Nancy Silverton, a master baker and pastry maker who became a millionairess opening up one of the first artisnal bakeries in Los Angeles uses the yeast of grapes to make her sourdough starter, which can then be kept alive for years, if one so desires.

I hope that the political and social implications of food, the growing of, the distribution of, the industrialization of will become one of our major areas of interest here at Corrente.

Leah, yes there are natural yeasts on grapes that will produce alcohol, and for centuries that’s how all wine was produced, some are still made that way. But the vast majority of modern wine producers use specialized strains of yeast that are more predictable and controllable than wild yeasts.

When the grapes are harvested and crushed, the must is sulfited to inhibit any wild yeasts, bacteria, molds, etc. and the prefered yeast is introduced to start fermentation. Modern yeasts are quick to start fermenting, which overpowers any remaining undesired organisms in the must. They have a greater tolerance for higher alcohol so you can produce more potent wines, and they produce firmer lees (dead yeast cells and solids that settle) so the wine clears more readily. It’s mainly about consistancy and eliminating some of the variables during fermentation.

Great metaphor, but let’s not go there, because this reminds me of the theory of why spraying with milk defeats mildew: The milk provides a culture for organisms to grow in that defeat the mildew!

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan