It may not be popular to say this, but not only does it seem likely that Clinton will not drop out before June 3rd, but it also doesn’t seem like a good idea for her to do so. Achieving the sort of closure necessary for a healed, unified party for the general election will require Clinton supporters feeling as though they were allowed to fight until there were no more realistic options remaining.
Because then they can lay back and enjoy it.
Mighty generous, the Boiz, mighty generous. Don’t you think? So considerate of our feelings.
As I said: Re-enfranchise FL an MI, then we’ll talk. This is about justice, not feelings. Because here’s all and everything this latest haka is about:
The Boiz know that for Obama to have any legitimacy left at all, he’s got to do well in the popular votes to come. So, they’re trying to get Hillary voters to believe their votes don’t matter because Obama’s already won.* It’s a mindfuck, pure and simple. So, if you’d even thought of paying attention to these guys, and whoever kidnapped Josh Marshall, don’t, and they won’t be able to create their own reality. Or yours.
Meanwhile, the great Digby has seen it all before. Set the Wayback Machine for December 2003:
Virtual Democracy
I’d like to officially congratulate Howard Dean for winning the nomination of the Democratic party for President of the United States. It was a hard fought campaign, one in which all of the issues were discussed and engaged in great depth with the internet party faithful. All the candidates had a chance to make their case on-line and the best man won. Now, with Al Gore’s dispensation, we can concentrate on beating George W. Bush.
First on the agenda is figuring out how we can expand our new formula of “winning without elections” to the race at large. If we want to take our country back and empower the grassroots again it is clear that our best strategy is to dispense with the unpredictability of democratic elections. As our recent primary taught us, this is the way we can most effectively avoid the unpleasantness of persuading the large numbers of people who aren’t sufficiently internet savvy to know what is good for them.
The best way to expand our new electionless democracy [FL, MI] would be to simply use the tried and true methods of internet activism, political endorsements, the infallible media pronouncements of “inevitability” and raising large amounts of cash. These are the proper measures of a candidate’s fitness for office and surely represent the will of the people better than the archaic practice of actual voting.
Sound familiar? Needless to say, that was parody. Although all of two days later, Ted Rall proved, if the Republicans already hadn’t, that reality and parody are often not easy to distinguish:
By Ted Rall
What if the other Democratic candidates came together at a joint press conference to announce that they were dropping out of the race to endorse Dean? If nothing else, cash-starved states would love it—the average primary costs taxpayers $7 million. More to the point, it would save Dean roughly $75 million—enough to close the money gap with Bush.
A more ephemeral but bigger benefit would be the message that a unified Democratic party could send to the electorate. Canceling the primaries would convey that Democrats are no longer a clumsy amalgamation of special interests. We’re organized, it would say.
Cancelling elections to save money and send a message of unity is such a good idea.
It’s the same old, same old, isn’t it? This Digby in 2003, remember, and it seems that all that the passage of time has done is allow this crap to ferment. Same messianic enthusiasm, same demand that all but The Annointed One drop out, and the usual suspects doing the Unity
haka, too. (Rall was pushing WWTSBQ from the dias at EschaCon, too. What a surprise.)
Pesky voters!
NOTE * The deeply bogus nature of Bower’s argument is explained by BTD. There’s no point even repeating it.
UPDATE Interesting article here. I like overlaying a topographical map on the counties… To reveal Appalachia! Bottom line:
Calling for [Hillary] to drop out before PA, PR, KY and WV vote would be akin to asking Obama to drop out because he was trailing with GA, AL, and MS yet to vote. It’s cutting her off before literally her best states vote.
Yeah, and that couldn’t be why they’re doing it, could it? Nah.
Front page
We need to get Diebold involved
Because elections are too important to be left to chance.
“And finally, new rule: If voting can destroy the Democratic Party, then the party isn’t very democratic.” - Bill Maher
Lambert, gentle doesn't count here -- Chris is
not your friend, and that drink is not just a mai-tai.
I’m telling you, hoss, as a friend, here.
Don’t drink it.
Don’t turn your back on these SOBS, either, or they’ll drip GHB into your buffalo wings’ sauce and all over the fries.
These bastards don’t know what it takes to be honest, up-front, and real. They’re afraid that if they try they’ll not only not get laid so they can brag to their other boiz-friendz about it, but some chick might actually point out how tiny their precious little weewees are — maybe even laugh.
Can’t have that, you know.
Didn't BushCo claim that Bush had decidedly won FL in 2000--
and it was useless to resist? To count all the votes?
And when the FL Supreme Court said the votes must be counted, BushBoy ran to Poppy’s and St. Ronnie’s Supreme Five to get his ball back.
And, I hadn't even seen the post below!
Resistance is futile.
Before I discovered what
Before I discovered what evil, snarky bastards you all were here, I probably visited OpenLeft more than any other blog. I really don’t think Chris and Matt are anywhere close to being Hillary-hating Obama fanatics. Remember, it is possible to rationally (i.e. not because you have the audacity to hope) choose Obama because you think he’s the lesser of two evils.
So I personally don’t think it’s fair to lump Chris and Matt in with the likes of Josh Marhsall, Kos, Arianna Huffington, etc.
Yes andno re: Dean
I was never very sure that primary elections *can* ever be legitimate in this media environment. Being snobbily Canadian, I find the US primary system a little odd. In most countries, party leaders are elected by party activists, so there’s no odd legitimacy question. The overall electorate judges finally whether party activists chose right.
That seems to me to be the right way to do it in a multiparty system.
No, there are degrees
I don’t think that Chris and Matt are Hillary Hating fanatics, and they’re certainly not doing anything so daft as sharing their personal conversion narratives with me. Or wandering off into the weeds with Vince Foster or Hillary’s tax returns, like so many of the OFB
.
That said, it’s quite clear that the Boiz have put their credibility on the line to push the “Hillary should quit” line, that the intellectual integrity of that line is at best minimal, and that the line is not historically grounded. So, they may well be “rational” Obama supporters. But their behavior on this topic lends no support to that conclusion.
Besides: Lie down with dogs (Kos, Josh) get up with fleas (WWTSBQ
). If they want to wreck their own personal brands by acting like Ted Rall c. 2003, then they should knock themselves out, say I.
[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
Chris et al. are afraid
Chris et al. are afraid that Hillary is going to clean up in the next primaries. That is where this is all coming from.
We’ll then be subjected to new reasons why she HAS to quit that are even crazier than they are now.
They are trying to depress Hillary's vote. That's all this is.
If they cared so deeply about the party, they’d be making sure the Clintons, as a brand, weren’t trashed. (It’s one thing to beat them in an election. It’s another thing to try to destroy their ability t function in public life by smearing them as racists.)
[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
Supporting Obama does not equal CDS
Unfortunately, far too many “Obama supporters” are just Hillary Haters.
I started off this campaign season supporting Gore but he didn’t run. I had Edwards as my second choice, then Dodd and Biden. That makes Hillary my fifth choice.
But even while I was still supporting Edwards I found myself defending Hillary from unfair attacks and recycled right-wing memes and lies. As time went on my respect for her went up, and my opinion of her main opponent went down.
My opinion of Obama was hurt more by his supporters and the tacit way he approves their attacks on Hillary. He could stop most of it if he wanted to.
“The key marker of a Hillary Hater is the willingness to state, in almost the same breath, that it is out of control and then to plunge in for a full-throated round of it.” - Anglachel
Open Left lost me
…when they rationalized all of Rev Wright’s caustic comments by saying that everything he said was true.
This is beyond kool aide
This is beyond kool aide effects. It is a mania of some kind.
Rev. Wright
The comments summarized in his wikipedia entry seem relatively innocuous to me. I mean, I don’t necessarily agree with all of them, but in a goodly chunk of the world (and not just OBL, natch), it’s a easily-argued point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wr…
does that have the "riding dirty" Bill & Monica thing?
(said and gestured at the pulpit no less)
Lambert nails it
they’re trying to get Hillary voters to believe their votes don’t matter because Obama’s already won.* It’s a mindfuck, pure and simple.
::
They are trying to depress Hillary’s vote. That’s all this is.
Lemme get this straight. The idea that “votes don’t matter” has the effect of depressing the turnout for supporters of the candidate that is perceived to be unlikely to win? Sounds logical. Where have I seen this before?
manah--turdblossom maybe?
that’s what i get. “We make our own reality”, “I have THE math” …
My problem with Wright
was not the things he said about America. This country has done some big fuck ups, and her citizens are suffering the consequences. That is irrefutable.
I am angry about the personal and deeply offensive comments about Hillary Clinton. She has had to work twice as hard to be accepted by the rich white men who run this country. And Obama has not addressed this.
Many whites in this country are offended by Wright’s words, not because he was wrong, but because they acknowledge that blacks have been screwed by this country, and the know they too are being screwed. They want allies in the fight against the “rich white men” who run this country, and they fear that men like Wright, who mentor and influence Obama, see whites, even poor whites, as only enemies. Do we need to discuss race, and how it is steeped in our culture? Absolutely, but the way Wright is going about it, is not by appealing to all our better natures, but by appealing to our baser ones.
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
Race and privilege
This is getting into an argument over race and privilege that is a lot deeper than Rev. Wright. There *is*, like it or not, a deeply held view among many black anti-racism workers that, yes, even poor whites have a privilege they can wield over blacks of all but the highest classes. Consequently, the demand for solidarity from working-class whites is viewed with a certain amount of suspicion.
Also see the enormous flamewars over race that Internet feminists sometimes have. With women of colour worried that white women want to subsume their struggle.
And I can’t entirely say that the suspicion is unjustified myself.
I do agree, Mandos
yes, even poor whites have a privilege they can wield over blacks of all but the highest classes.
That is absolutely true. But, we(as in poor whites) aren’t responsible for it. Are there some poor whites who are angry and think a black man undeservedly took their job, when actually a white man has an easier time finding a job? Yes. But, That white man is not a democrat working class dems, for the most part, don’t feel that way, and we are not the white people they should be angry at. So people like Rev. Wright, shouldn’t be perpetuating this, to the detriment of all of us.
Like I said appeal to our better nature, not our baser ones. Help us all work past the racist indoctrination each and every one of us undergoes, from history lessons, to popular culture, and our political systems, and teach us that this indoctrination only serves to weaken us. Should the flock of Trinity Church be angry? Hell, yes. But their leader should help them redirect their anger to not only improve their communities, but all communities.
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
Trust
So it’s hard and kind of presumptuous for you to ask them to trust that the Working Class Dem Is Not A Racist. They don’t trust that. Why don’t they trust that? Why should they trust that?
I can’t speak for them. I’m brown but not AA. I’m worse, actually, racially I’m a Model Minority, and they should not trust us Model Minorities farther than they can throw us. Model Minorities love to stab blacks in the back, while smiling about how we can’t be racist because we’re brown…
The not-DWB...
…is a huge, huge difference for blacks.
Have you ever seen the movie Crash? I thought it was an interesting take on this issue.
there is basic white privilege for all,
but most poor and working class whites don’t usually benefit from it—they’re not the ones passed over for college or denied promotions, etc, and they don’t receive more or better govt support except at a very small local level (they are never “driving while black”, for instance)
i’m having second thoughts about this—everything from shopping to mortgages to …
i guess no matter what class, whites benefit a lot.
This is, in fact, the national conversation...
… we need to be having.
Funny how that dropped like a stone after our famously free press decided Wright was no longer a problem. Oh well.
I can’t imagine the DWB thing. Well, I can imagine, but that’s all I can do.
Arthur Ashe once said that being black was like having a second job.
[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
yeah--i take it back--
i wonder whether the increased segregation in neighborhoods and schools nowadays is hiding more of it than before from whites (poor whites and blacks often lived closer together—uneasily—esp in cities)
This is relevant—from Root— http://www.theroot.com/id/45302
“…Two thirds of whites believe that blacks have achieved or will soon achieve racial equality. Nearly eighty percent of blacks believe that racial justice for blacks will not be achieved either in their lifetime or at all in the U.S. …”
nat'l conversation--
it’s not helpful, bec we as individuals can’t fix much of the institutional stuff (and everyone gets either pissed or resentful or touchy, etc)—we can only elect officials who will make it a priority to provide opportunity for all, and who will lift up all, etc—and who will forcefully use our laws and govt to punish those who discriminate—esp those in govt (from local cops on up) who do so.
related, via sideshow—Gilliard during the Sean Bell shooting here— http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2006/1…
Amberglow: The problem with race
is that it’s used to divide people who should be united. Poor whites may have an advantage, but they have more in common with poor blacks than they do with rich whites.
When jobs are scarce because the rich are sending the jobs overseas, poor people don’t need to be fighting over the jobs that are left, they need to unite to fix the problem.
But the GOP uses race to ignite fear in the white lower class of scary brown people stealing their jobs. That’s how they used Affirmative Action as a wedge issue to win elections - by dividing people of similar interests.
“The key marker of a Hillary Hater is the willingness to state, in almost the same breath, that it is out of control and then to plunge in for a full-throated round of it.” - Anglachel
Structure v. Discourse
There is ample sociological research showing that both race and gender are STRUCTURALLY disadvantaged categories (with cumulative effect: minority women have it worse).
However, when it comes to DISCOURSE (what is acceptable to say), I think this primary has shown that sexist discourse is still a lot more acceptable than racist one. People making racist statements in the media (or media people themselves) are called on it, made to retract, apologize… It is only in EXTREME cases (Shuster’s pimp comment and, of course, Randi Rhodes) that sanctions are imposed.
However, the media and the big blogger Boyz can spew sexist drivel as much as they want with no noticeable social effect. And we, women will be expected to get over it before November. And women’s reactions to sexist discourse are trivialized and dismissed as emotional, irrational. We are summoned to really “think about it” when we say we won’t vote for Obama.
So, again, let’s not confuse structure and discourse.
Maybe so
is that it’s used to divide people who should be united. Poor whites may have an advantage, but they have more in common with poor blacks than they do with rich whites.
Maybe so, but there is a reason why blacks are suspicious of allying with poor whites, and that’s not ONLY a divide-and-conquer tactic that blacks have gullibly accepted…
Mandos: It's not just blacks.
The same tactic is used in the western states (with small black populations) to divide whites and latinos.
When all else fails, the wealthy want to loosen immigration to bring in some other group of poor people.
“The key marker of a Hillary Hater is the willingness to state, in almost the same breath, that it is out of control and then to plunge in for a full-throated round of it.” - Anglachel
I’m certain, but I’m
I’m certain, but I’m trying to tell you that it is not just a tactic.
Another angle
Not to diminish the post or any of the comments before, I want to suggest two different perspectives.
The first is pseudo psychological: the mentioned screaming Obama gang members are scared of the coming primaries. No wide caucuses can be rigged, the latte Volvo people are fewer, blue collar larger, PA is important, MI and FL still looming. It’s Obama’s graveyard and they are whistling.
The second is socio-political: Gangs and mobs are anti-democratic, they are violent, killing and vast intolerance. People crying at appearances and speeches are religious fanatics, epiphany happens only with God-like people and you must choose/elect God - it is not a choice it’s a command. Progressives tended way too much to be on the wrong side of history. Europe worshiped Stalin while he was murdering tens of millions. They always had the Carter disease - being racist against someone.
Bottom line: all is normal in the party. Yet again, this time with the help of Obama, the Democrats are ready to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This time because of the biblical precondition for ruin: hate.
Re: Biblical Precondition
I thought it was pride, not hate.
As in “Pride goeth before a fall.”
Insanity maybe?: “Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad” Because the whole party is acting crazy as a shithouse rat.
“The key marker of a Hillary Hater is the willingness to state, in almost the same breath, that it is out of control and then to plunge in for a full-throated round of it.” - Anglachel
Bowers is still around?
I stopped reading Open Left a long time ago. IIRC, Bowers had a hissy fit, threatened to resign from all his party posts and leave the Democratic Party.
Maybe he’s waiting for Donna Brazile to leave first.
Structure vs discourse
So, again, let’s not confuse structure and discourse.
Thanks, Frenchdoc. Your comment clarified some things for me.
Reclusive Leftist on the Misogyny of the Blogger Boyz
Whole thing is here - http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=832
BDBlue: It's not misogyny
because they hate Bill too.
The Boiz don’t let their CDS be confined to one narrow bracket - they are full spectrum haters.
“The key marker of a Hillary Hater is the willingness to state, in almost the same breath, that it is out of control and then to plunge in for a full-throated round of it.” - Anglachel
They Do Hate Bill
But somehow the venom - even by bloggers like Andy Sullivan - never seems quite as sharp towards him. And a lot of time the hatred towards him is actually directed at her - imputing his political positions or things he’s said to her. Because that’s not sexist at all.
So I agree that CDS extends to hatred of Bill, but I think misogyny adds a little something special to the Hillary hate, giving it just a bit more kick.
It is misogyny because Hillary always gets the blame
Bill fools around and Hillary gets the blame for not keeping him satisfied. Bill half-asses trade reform through NAFTA and Hillary gets blamed for not speaking out against it. Bill pops off awkwardly about Jesse Jackson; Hillary gets blamed for being a closet racist AND for not keeping him under control.
When was the last time Bill took the heat for something Hillary did? Never.
The nature of the attacks on each of them is different, as are the attitudes; Bill gets castigated and forgiven, because boys will be boys, while Hillary is condemned for ever and ever for things she never did or said because everyone knows women are just like that - all of them.
Misogyny is exactly the right word.
BDBlue: It's not just misogyny
but sexism definitely is a “new & improved” form of CDS.
The wing-nuts and freepers always had nasty stuff to say about Hillary (lesbian, castrating bitch, etc.) but back in the day the primary target was Bill. We got to hear discussions on national television about the size, shape and “distinguishing characteristics” of the Clenis.
Now that Hillary is the one in the crosshairs, the He-Man Woman Haters of Left Blogistan are giving full vent to their sexual inadequacies.
The sickening part is that the haters today are supposed to be on our side.
What happened to the Democratic Party?
“The key marker of a Hillary Hater is the willingness to state, in almost the same breath, that it is out of control and then to plunge in for a full-throated round of it.” - Anglachel
It's Rezko driving a lot of the WWTSBQ
I think we need to start saying this directly - Rezko is on trial for bribing elected state officials. Rezko did Obama a huge personal favor to the tune of $625k. Why? No one knows. If Rezko is convicted of bribery, that $625k is going to look like a bribe to most sensible Americans. Obama’s campaign is over at that point. Unless, that is, the opposition has dropped out. Hillary cannot be in the race if Obama is to sustain the nomination through a Rezko conviction.
Personally, I think the land purchase was a “pay it forward” bribe - I’m sure Rezko thinks of it as an investment. A bribe in the bank. An ace up his sleeve. A Get Out Of Jail free card.
Remember, in White Water, James McDougal, who was the owner of Madison Guaranty (the S&L whose failure was at the heart of White Water) had been indicted by federal prosecutors working for the first Bush administration, gone to trial and had been ACQUITTED in 1989. So the Republican prosecutors had been all over that S&L and had found no reason to suspect Bill of corruption. Three years after the acquittal, Bill is running for president and the Bush DOJ starts investigating Madison Guaranty again. The Clintons don’t find out about this until after Bill wins the election. If the feds are investigating Rezko/Obama, we won’t know about it until it’s too late. They aren’t going to make the same mistake twice of waiting until after the election.
Lastly, as Buchanan pointed out, Fitzgerald is going to wait until he has convicted Rezko before he moves up the food chain - as is his very well-established practice. Once Rezko is facing decades in federal prison, that’s when Fitzgerald will expand his investigation with Rezko’s assistance. None of us know whether Obama is clean or not, but all of us have 625,000 reasons to suspect he isn’t. And that’s a lot of reasons.
Force the issue, act now
Everyone take the pledge, let Howard Dean know:
We can put a stop to the FL - MI problem. Take the pledge:
“If MI and FL are not brought into the national picture immediately and their votes counted, and if Obama is the Democratic nominee, I will not vote for president in November. If MI and FL are returned to the national picture immediately and their votes counted, then I will vote for the Democratic nominee whomever it is”.
If enough of us take the pledge then Dean has few choices. If he makes the wrong choice then Obama will have no chance to be President. Period. The only chance for Obama and choice for Dean is to bring FL and MI into the equation, now.
Bitches don't quit
By the way, props for the haka references. :-)
I wasn’t initially a Clinton supporter but got disgusted with the sexist b.s. that I jumped firmly into her camp. Can you imagine, the @#*%$& nerve of a broad who won’t quit when the boys tell her to? (/snark) Reminds me of Marlo Thomas’s old quote about how bad a man has to be to get the title “ruthless” while all a woman has to do to get the mantle is put you on hold. Bastards make me want to puke.
If I’m allowed to blogwhore for a moment, the b.s. has gotten so bad that a couple of women I know who aren’t even the most hardened political junkies I know started their own pro-Hil site for fashionistas and other professional women. Hireheels.comis filled with references to Prada and Loubouton shoes and lots of shoe puns, but they’re reaching out to underrepresented voters in their language (like donate your weekly manicure-pedicure allowance to Clinton). Wouldn’t that just gall the Big Boyz?
they admire Bill--he's a successful player--
and they’ve spent years trying to destroy him and failed (altho they love it that Obama painted him as racist)—they admire him like they admire DeLay and Rove, etc.
or, rather, the boy talking heads do. the women detest him.
good idea, jimbo--it's what moveon and other orgs
should be organizing.