Fri, 11/07/2008 - 10:44am — a little night ...
"Dr. King fervently supported Kennedy over Nixon. We still had to march for a public accommodations bill. He supported President Johnson over Goldwater. We still had to march for the right to vote. Now when Mr. Barack Obama gets to Washington, there'll be competition for his attention. And so the Civil Rights Movement must make its presence felt. And the labor movement. And the women's movement."
Amen.
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And, of course
The gay rights movement.
Jesse's heart is in the right place, but I can't help thinking that his omission of that one is a symptom of the problem we've been discussing around Prop. 8, etc. Not that I think he's a homophobe (I have no evidence one way or the other), but just that it doesn't naturally enter his head the way these other groups do.
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We can't afford not to have single-payer!
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We can't afford not to have single-payer!
It may be a different constituency,
but aren't gay rights civil rights, too?
he was very good when he ran--
we were part of his coalition and explicitly not thrown under any buses.
He, much more than Obama, sees us as part of the American family, and knows that our rights matter. (at least he used to)
from 1984 -- http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.ht...
"...Mr. Jackson has consistently and prominently included the gay and lesbian community in the ''rainbow coalition'' - beginning even before his announcement as a candidate for the Democratic nomination. Among all candidates, he has been the most vocally supportive of justice and fair treatment for the lesbian and gay minority. Additionally, there are already a significant number of openly gay or lesbian delegates to the Democratic National Convention committed to Mr. Jackson. ..."
I'd rather have
Rev. Jackson advising him than Rev. Wright.
they don't love each other at all--
Jesse was furious at how Obama talked to other blacks.
FYI: Wright better than lots of faithy folks on the gay stuff.
Rev. Wright is better than any of Obama's other "spiritual" pals on GLBT issues - among other things, he established a gay singles group in the church.
However, even Wright had to sometimes struggle with his own recalcitrant flock on this issue at times.
As for the ability to be a great AfAm leader AND having a memory that works better than intermittently and when convenient, try (the late) Coretta Scott King. She was all over being GLBT-supportive a long time ago. She supported marriage. She never had any trouble uttering our name no matter where she was.
But then, leaders, you know... lead.
Glad to hear that.
But he's not as politically correct, let's say.
I have no doubt that those pesky repubs will, in the not-to-distant future, use him to stir up trouble.
"Constitutional amendments should be used to expand freedom"
-- Coretta Scott King gives her support to gay marriage -- http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004... --
"The widow of Martin Luther King Jr. called gay marriage a civil rights issue, denouncing a proposed constitutional amendment that would ban it.
Constitutional amendments should be used to expand freedom, not restrict it, Coretta Scott King said Tuesday.
"Gay and lesbian people have families, and their families should have legal protection, whether by marriage or civil union," she said. "A constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages is a form of gay bashing and it would do nothing at all to protect traditional marriages." ..."
his 84 Convention speech--
"... America is not like a blanket -- one piece of unbroken cloth, the same color, the same texture, the same size. America is more like a quilt: many patches, many pieces, many colors, many sizes, all woven and held together by a common thread. The white, the Hispanic, the black, the Arab, the Jew, the woman, the native American, the small farmer, the businessperson, the environmentalist, the peace activist, the young, the old, the lesbian, the gay, and the disabled make up the American quilt.
Even in our fractured state, all of us count and fit somewhere. We have proven that we can survive without each other. But we have not proven that we can win and make progress without each other. We must come together.
...
The Rainbow includes lesbians and gays. No American citizen ought be denied equal protection from the law. ..." -- http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches...
don't miss all the Reagan stuff, either.
So good
Thanks, I had forgotten this. This is what a real liberal leader sounds like.
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We can't afford not to have single-payer!
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We can't afford not to have single-payer!
So...
darned divisive, ya know?
and 88--
"... A shared commitment to a common direction.
Common ground.
Easier said than done. Where do you find common ground? At the point of challenge. This campaign has shown that politics need not be marketed by politicians, packaged by pollsters and pundits. Politics can be a moral arena where people come together to find common ground.
We find common ground at the plant gate that closes on workers without notice. We find common ground at the farm auction, where a good farmer loses his or her land to bad loans or diminishing markets. Common ground at the school yard where teachers cannot get adequate pay, and students cannot get a scholarship, and can't make a loan. Common ground at the hospital admitting room, where somebody tonight is dying because they cannot afford to go upstairs to a bed that's empty waiting for someone with insurance to get sick. We are a better nation than that. We must do better.
Common ground. What is leadership if not present help in a time of crisis? And so I met you at the point of challenge. In Jay, Maine, where paper workers were striking for fair wages; in Greenville, Iowa, where family farmers struggle for a fair price; in Cleveland, Ohio, where working women seek comparable worth; in McFarland, California, where the children of Hispanic farm workers may be dying from poisoned land, dying in clusters with cancer; in an AIDS hospice in Houston, Texas, where the sick support one another, too often rejected by their own parents and friends.
Common ground. America is not a blanket woven from one thread, one color, one cloth. When I was a child growing up in Greenville, South Carolina and grandmamma could not afford a blanket, she didn't complain and we did not freeze. Instead she took pieces of old cloth -- patches, wool, silk, gabardine, crockersack -- only patches, barely good enough to wipe off your shoes with. But they didn't stay that way very long. With sturdy hands and a strong cord, she sewed them together into a quilt, a thing of beauty and power and culture. Now, Democrats, we must build such a quilt.
Farmers, you seek fair prices and you are right -- but you cannot stand alone. Your patch is not big enough.
Workers, you fight for fair wages, you are right -- but your patch labor is not big enough.
Women, you seek comparable worth and pay equity, you are right -- but your patch is not big enough.
Women, mothers, who seek Head Start, and day care and prenatal care on the front side of life, relevant jail care and welfare on the back side of life, you are right -- but your patch is not big enough.
Students, you seek scholarships, you are right -- but your patch is not big enough.
Blacks and Hispanics, when we fight for civil rights, we are right -- but our patch is not big enough.
Gays and lesbians, when you fight against discrimination and a cure for AIDS, you are right -- but your patch is not big enough. ..." -- http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches...
note how vastly different--
"Where do you find common ground? At the point of challenge."
compared to Obama's "unity" -- which denigrates and dismisses challenge and struggle to progress as "old politics" and "bitter" and "partisan" and "divisive".
and maybe these 2 speeches will help explain why Obama's repeated praise of Reagan is so very disgusting--those of us who lived thru it all know, but younger people obviously don't, apparently.
Now this is stirring
Jesse can always make me misty-eyed, and I didn't even vote for him. I feel like a better person for having heard him speak.
I've heard Jackson more than once in the last 5 years
He always mentioned LGBT and the need for their inclusion.
"The Democratic call for unity is a guilt trip"
"The Democratic call for unity is a guilt trip when party whips-the ones in the press as well as in power--use it to extinguish all signs of life on the left side of the universe. It is not the left's business to shore up the party and cheer on its candidate every four years. There is a bigger job to do in creating radical alternatives to dead-center politics-and that means regarding the Democratic Party without sentiment or illusion." -- http://www.thenation.com/doc/19840721/ko...
(i think a comment got lost--this is from a great piece on the Left in 1984)
It makes me mad
That the mention of Jesse has been treated as a punchline or something to be ashamed of and Obama was complicit in making sure that he controlled Jesse story. Jesse's very much torn, right now, and for good reason, but unlike the rest of the O-Nation, he still has his wits about him. He knows that we missed holding O's feet to the fire. He knows that Obama's not the end-all, be-all of lifting up the least amongst us.
If I'm to hope for anything, it is that Jesse and the rest don't fail us, because they are about the only ones left to trust. Until O demonstrates his committment to meaningful change for the least of us, I don't trust him as far as I can throw him. It's really that simple. I don't trust him anymore because he's black. Often times, it is the blacks who get into power that are most likely to ignore minorities, and Jesse knows this, and if we weren't so afraid of ruining our buzz, the community would admit to knowing this, too.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
"I don’t trust him anymore because he’s black."
Good thing that criticism is being limited to policy issues, and race doesn't enter into it at all.
The biggest difference between Barack Obama and Jesse Jackson?
Obama gets called "Mr. President" and Jackson does not.
Damn that Obama, and his dastardly plan to get elected! Another case of "Successful While Black". Woe is us, woe is us!
Perhaps, You Read That Incorrectly?
There is a feeling within the black community that he should not be questioned and should be trusted because of his indentity. It's something that was thrust upon me, not the other way around. I guess what you didn't get was that I was saying quite the opposite, that his race doesn't make him anymore trustworthy to me simply because the two of us happen to share similar skin tones.
I shouldn't even be offering you an explanation of what I meant. You neither understand nor care about the dynamics within my community. It really is too bad, though, that your priggish and antagonist nature does find comfort in critiquing someone on something you know nothing about.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
"piggish and antagonistic"
Really, damon; try for some creativity with your insults, willya?
Here's what led me to believe that race in fact was an issue; your next sentence - "Often times, it is the blacks who get into power that are most likely to ignore minorities". Unlike the whites who get into power?
And your selective interpretation of Jesse Jackson's feelings? I've read a number of statements now from Jackson and not seen anything but the kind of emotion expressed by Krugman and many, many others, joy to the point of tears mixed with remembrance of those who went before. Is there much work to be done? Yes. Is Obama more of a centrist than a Progressive? Yes, that's how he ran and that's how he'll try and govern. Does that diminish the historical importance of his being elected? No, it does not; not one little bit.
Jackson has been very, very clear about the symbolic importance of America electing a black person to the presidency, flaws and all. You've expended a great deal of effort here trying to discuss the critical importance of symbolism, yet you seem entirely unable to appreciate the magnitude of the symbolism in this election. You aren't just missing the forest for the trees, you're missing it because you are singularly focused on the thorn in your own heel. If you are unable to appreciate the enormity of this transformational event, that is your lack; it does not mean that everyone else is a fool.
Thanks once again for disinviting me from the discussion, as you do with everyone who disagrees with you. Not your call, though, and I'll stick around anyway and express my opinion as I see it. A fair reading of the opinion of others from around the blogosphere makes very clear that if there is anyone out of touch with mainstream black opinion on the cultural, societal and political meaningfulness of the phenomenon that delivered us Barack Obama, it is you.
The closest you'll ever get to "mainstream black opinion"...
...will be through the blogs, and that ain't close. You can have your opinion on this, just be sure to know that it is both distant and simplistic. Jesse's the real deal, and always was and will always be. He knows what's up. You'd be lucky if you knew anything at all.
You lost any legitimacy on critiquing anything or anyone in the black community when you had the nerve to gratuitously through around the term "nigger", here, so you can stop pretending, already, that you give a damn about the positive racial aspect of Obama. If anything, you still hold some old-fashioned views on race and gender.
Your motives here have never been genuine. You are here neither to teach nor learn. You whore yourself out to misery, you beat off to attempting to create to stress. You're the resident penny-ante, two-bit sadist, here. Is that creative enough for you? I'm done with you.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
Thank you, Damon.
Rev. Jackson, despite his missteps, despite his trade of muted criticism of Obama for his son's place in the upcoming Administration, will be the more legitimate holder of mainstream black opinion than anyone on this blog, you and I included.
If you want to know the Negro I want Obama to call at 3 am, it sure as hell ain't Colin Powell. I depend on Rev. Jackson to be the adviser Bayard Rustin was to Dr. King: The man who couldn't be in the spotlight, but who made that spotlight shine brighter for another.
It doesn't matter now if you're an agent provocateur for good or for evil, Bringiton, your static's place won't outlast this campaign season. I gloss over your posts, because even if there's good ideas in them, it's just too much of a pain to separate them out from you. It's attitudes like yours that drove PUMAs who were too wounded to step back to your counterparts in the GOP. Another generation of Reagan Democrats? Gee, thanks. I hope you do get some sort of reward for your hard work, because this Administration will not be it.
Calling Doctor Freud....
Not "piggish." "Priggish." Just saying.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Typos will be the death of me
well, probably not.
Sorry to disappoint.
Let us all praise the perfect genius of a campaign
in a can't-lose year that abused its own base, leading to an entirely lost lead to an historically unpopular party with a weak ticket, until that opposing party grew extra extra historically unpopular due to an historic financial meltdown at the 11th hour.
Every craven thing the campaign did was right and good and necessary. Hooray!
Lather, rinse and repeat:
Let us all praise the perfect genius of a campaign in a can’t-lose year that abused its own base, leading to an entirely lost lead to an historically unpopular party with a weak ticket, until that opposing party grew extra extra historically unpopular due to an historic financial meltdown at the 11th hour.
Reality - there are no pretty ponies here.
Irony may not be dead but it's killing me
I had forgotten Jesse's quilt speech. I teared up reading. Why is it that reading his 20+ year old speech makes me cry, but Obama's stump speech, even in person and cheered on by crowds of thousands, makes me shrug, at best?
It's Jackson's words and goals that I think most of the Changey Hopey crowd thought they were voting for with Obama, I think (I hope), yet they hate him. They know nothing about him, but they hate him. And love the one who grabbed a few patches of the quilt and burned the rest.
You don’t know me, son. So let me explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you’ll be awake, you’ll be facing me, and you’ll be armed.
-Malcolm Reynolds, “Serenity”
They don't hate him. As Ms. Anglachel said, they hate losers,
even though those losers won or survived for decades. Senator Clinton knows how to survive, and that's why they attacked her on her 'lust for power' -- if she didn't want it so bad, she would have quit in response to their scorn, right? If she weren't strong, they'd win immediately, and they hate having to wait.
The Obama communities love the ad campaign, and probably will stay in their campaign cadres, to keep those hits of targeted marketing that pretends to care about them going. They love the idea of politics, but not the harder work of putting their own ideas in the forefront, and making their opinions known with legislators. What happens when their ideas differ from the Administration? Will they be allowed to use the Obama e-networks to talk about those differences? If they venture out to DK and other Village
tools, will they be thrown off the bus? Will they even know to be mad about that?
Yeah, they don't hate Jesse
They just wish that he wasn't right. You know, the media misrepresented and simplified our initial skepticism of Obama as the "is he black enough" question. I call it a misrepresentation, because it was never that. The skepticism came from something much more obvious and it's what came up when he ran against Bobby Rush; that something was that his work for the least among us has been sketchy at best. It didn't have anything to do with his "blackness." The black community has produced a wide array of successful politicians with varying temperaments and backgrounds.
cg.eye is right. What changed in our perception of him had nothing to do with him changing into a better more understanding candidate. It had everything to do with the fact that we found out he could win. As soon as we saw that, we didn't give a damn who he was, and that was the real tragedy in this.
Really, if you really sit down with folks in our community and you ask them tough questions about Obama (i.e. name something he's done for us disaffecteds, ask them why they trust him to do right by them, etc...) you will see that the skepticism didn't disappear, it just moved below the surface long enough fulfill a superficial dream (i.e. having a black president)
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...